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Honest advice on diamond requested

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embxp1971

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2009
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Hello to everyone. First of all, I am new to this site and must say - I am very impressed with all of the extremely helpful information available.

With that said... I have a diamond that I selected and purchased for my review and will be coming to me within the next few days. In the meantime... I wanted to get an opinion on it to see if it could be a good choice.

Here are the details from the GIA ( report# 2111451353 )

1.29 ct
Measurements : 7.10-7.13x4.27mm
Color: G
Clarity : VS1
Cut: Excellent
Depth: 60%
Table: 60%
Crown Angle: 33%
Crown Height: 13%
Pavilion Angle : 41.8 degrees
Pavilion Depth: 44.5%
Star Length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Thin to Medium, Faceted (2.5%)
Culet: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

Any honest opinions would be very welcomed.

Thanks!
CG
 
Probably bad.
 
Thanks. Could you expand as to why you would consider it to be "bad"?

Again... new to this and trying to get up to speed.... never realized how technical information applies so much to diamonds... wow!!
 
Date: 12/16/2009 11:49:23 AM
Author: embxp1971
Thanks. Could you expand as to why you would consider it to be 'bad'?

Again... new to this and trying to get up to speed.... never realized how technical information applies so much to diamonds... wow!!
Click to expand...
Stonecold is right, the pavilion angle is very steep and even though the crown angle is shallower, once you start getting much over 41 degrees this doesn't make any difference, such steep pavilion angles often have issues, the angle in itself can lead to light leakage which is the main concern here, is it possible you could get an Idealscope image for the diamond so we can check for leakage? Without an image we can't tell how significant the leakage is, it might not be too bad or it could be considerable. Well cut diamonds do not have such steep pavilion angles, there are reasons why the best cut stones do not have pavilion angles over 41 degrees and definitely not as steep as this.
 
The pavilion angle is too steep for that crown angle, you will probably see a ring of leakage inside the table.
 
Ok and I was curious about that angle as I read on this site - in the knowledge base - that those between 39.7 degrees and 41.4 degrees would be worthy of consideration. I figured this one was just a tad over that upper limit so I thought it would be worth a look.

Do you think I should still consider it once I preview it physically? Or is it just technically not a good diamond?
 
Date: 12/16/2009 12:00:32 PM
Author: embxp1971
Ok and I was curious about that angle as I read on this site - in the knowledge base - that those between 39.7 degrees and 41.4 degrees would be worthy of consideration. I figured this one was just a tad over that upper limit so I thought it would be worth a look.

Do you think I should still consider it once I preview it physically? Or is it just technically not a good diamond?
Click to expand...
The pavilion angle is crucial for good light return more than the crown angle and even if a steeper crown angle is balanced with a shallower crown, once you get much over 41 degrees it makes little to no difference and such a steep pavilion angle can in the majority of cases cause leakage and other issues depending. 41.4 is still quite steep but 41.8 is really pushing it in my opinion. You could order an Idealscope and check it out for yourself if you are committed at this stage.
 
so this would lead to a less brilliant looking diamond? I apologize for being such a newbie but cannot thank you enough for helping me with this.... the diamond price was $9090 - I know not very expensive but was within my budget and fit the mold for color and clarity I was looking for. Little did I know that the 4C''s are just the beginning of diamond buying!!! LOL
 
so for instance, would this be a better choice technically ( as an example ) ?
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1268724.asp
 
Date: 12/16/2009 12:06:08 PM
Author: embxp1971
so this would lead to a less brilliant looking diamond? I apologize for being such a newbie but cannot thank you enough for helping me with this.... the diamond price was $9090 - I know not very expensive but was within my budget and fit the mold for color and clarity I was looking for. Little did I know that the 4C''s are just the beginning of diamond buying!!! LOL
Click to expand...
Yes it could do, you could see leakage in the stone as a dark ring around the table facet and it could be lacklustre in some lighting. And we make no distinctions concerning treatment of folk according to their budget here, we try to help everyone equally and your budget is nothing to sneeze at anyway! When does the diamond arrive?
 
ok... and one more - please -

Just found this one and it is almost same price I paid for the other one

how do these numbers look in comparison?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1261948.asp
 
Date: 12/16/2009 12:14:49 PM
Author: embxp1971
so for instance, would this be a better choice technically ( as an example ) ?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1268724.asp
Click to expand...

Numbers look good, request an idealscope image to confirm.
 
Date: 12/16/2009 12:19:04 PM
Author: embxp1971
ok... and one more - please -

Just found this one and it is almost same price I paid for the other one

how do these numbers look in comparison?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1261948.asp
Click to expand...
This one could be better than the original diamond but it is what we call a steep deep ( the term we use here for both crown and pavilion angles being on the steep and deep side). I can see some leakage in the loupe image so an Idealscope image would definitely be needed for this stone. The other diamond you posted could be a great choice, are you considering this one seriously and returning the original diamond?
 
Date: 12/16/2009 12:19:04 PM
Author: embxp1971
ok... and one more - please -

Just found this one and it is almost same price I paid for the other one

how do these numbers look in comparison?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1261948.asp
Click to expand...

Nope, not this one, too steep too. Also, there is a PS discount, around 5% usually, so the price is still cheaper.
 
yes I am already considering returning the original and going with something with better technical numbers....

so this one would be the best choice

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1268724.asp
 
so it seems like I should be looking for pavilion angles of less than 41% correct?
 
Not necessary.

Use this tool. https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp Scores under 2 is worthy of further investigation like request for idealscope image. If idealscope image is available, it supersedes the cut adviser.
 
thanks StoneCold

I got a 1.3 score on that 1.24ct diamond and a 5.8 score on the larger one I had originally ordered

... I think I am going to request the 1.24ct as I think it will be a better investment....
 
Ask for an idealscope image to confirm there is no unnecessary leakage. It is a free service from JA.
 
Date: 12/16/2009 12:32:48 PM
Author: embxp1971
so it seems like I should be looking for pavilion angles of less than 41% correct?
Click to expand...


Really you don't want to go much over 41 degrees with pavilion angles if you want the best cut diamond, but it is important that all the proportions work well together. Here is the cheat sheet some of us use as a guide to find a well cut diamond and also from expert Todd Gray if you really want to narrow the field.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!



As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

From expert John Pollard.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.



GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

Todd Gray's Numbers.

Total depth between 59 - 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 - 57%
Crown angle* between 34.3 - 34.8 degrees
Pavilion angle* between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees
Girdle between thin to slightly thick
Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed (same concept)
 
I would prefer to see you spend your money on a diamond that will look great! One with these angles may have a dead area in the center. It may not, it could look great. But if you get it and have an inspection period, then I would take it to compare to some better cuts, perhaps try and find some AGS0 diamonds near you. Jared's apparently carries such stones in their peerless line, and Hearts on Fire are also ideal diamonds. Look at them under daylight or indirect diffused lighting. That is where you will see the most difference between your diamond and a better cut (if there is a noticable difference). Under jewelry store lighting you may not see it because such lighting minimizes differences in cut appearance.

Just for your own information, here are some stones in the same price range that will be better cut. These are all H&A diamonds meaning they have top optical performance and symmetry:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6403/
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2219634.htm
AGS-1040381680026 Brian Gavin H&A 1.235 G VS1 55.8 61.4 $10,232.00 Call Brian Gavin Diamonds if interested
 
Date: 12/16/2009 1:16:54 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
I would prefer to see you spend your money on a diamond that will look great! One with these angles may have a dead area in the center. It may not, it could look great. But if you get it and have an inspection period, then I would take it to compare to some better cuts, perhaps try and find some AGS0 diamonds near you. Jared''s apparently carries such stones in their peerless line, and Hearts on Fire are also ideal diamonds. Look at them under daylight or indirect diffused lighting. That is where you will see the most difference between your diamond and a better cut (if there is a noticable difference). Under jewelry store lighting you may not see it because such lighting minimizes differences in cut appearance.

Just for your own information, here are some stones in the same price range that will be better cut. These are all H&A diamonds meaning they have top optical performance and symmetry:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6403/
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2219634.htm
AGS-1040381680026 Brian Gavin H&A 1.235 G VS1 55.8 61.4 $10,232.00 Call Brian Gavin Diamonds if interested
Click to expand...
Excellent point DD! embxp this could really be helpful if you have a Jareds in your area.
 
Thank you all so much for your help! I have learned so much in the last 3-40 minutes - it is amazing!

I have this one on order and am excited to view it in person!

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1268724.asp
 
Much better!
 
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