HoF versus a plain deal cut.

[JoangA]

I have 2 AGS certified diamonds; one is a .25 Ideal cut from Blue Nile, the other a .381 Hearts on Fire from Craig''s List. Yep, Graig''s list! Hubby got a great deal on it.

I compared the two using the Holloway Cut Advisor, and guess what. The BN rated 1.9 (excellent) the HoF rated 2.3 (very good)! I was really expecting the reverse to happen, shut my mouth about how good the HoF are.

I do see a difference in the precision on the arrows, but ever so slight.

Bottom line, I''m glad I have the little HoF, it''s fun, I''m even happier we didn''t pay for it!

 

[WinkHPD]

LOL! That is a great way to get a HoF. They are pretty stones and it is always nice to see someone get them for a deal.

Enjoy it and kudos to hubby!

Wink

 

[Jensia]

My stone is a 2.3 on the HOA, and is Very sparkley!! It has nice hearts and arrows.IT looks perfect to me.

 

[Sundial]

My three stone ring is HOF and the center stone scored a 1.5 on the HCA. Like any other diamonds there are going to be some variations in the numbers. I do think that they are very beautiful stones but of course they are quite pricey. I saw your diamonds on the other forum Jensia and JoangA and they look incredible!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

It would be fun to gather the experts from several branded diamond houses and present them with an ash tray full of diamonds - all from their various brands - but with girdle inscriptions removed.

And ask them to each identify their own diamonds.

I wonder how many could do it?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/5/2006 6:41:13 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would be fun to gather the experts from several branded diamond houses and present them with an ash tray full of diamonds - all from their various brands - but with girdle inscriptions removed.

And ask them to each identify their own diamonds.

I wonder how many could do it?

I''d love to see that!!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/5/2006 6:41:13 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would be fun to gather the experts from several branded diamond houses and present them with an ash tray full of diamonds - all from their various brands - but with girdle inscriptions removed.

And ask them to each identify their own diamonds.

I wonder how many could do it?

my guess would be a very low %.

if all the stones are well cut.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/6/2006 3:04:09 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/5/2006 6:41:13 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would be fun to gather the experts from several branded diamond houses and present them with an ash tray full of diamonds - all from their various brands - but with girdle inscriptions removed.

And ask them to each identify their own diamonds.

I wonder how many could do it?

my guess would be a very low %.

if all the stones are well cut.

Then these products that are not identifyable are not branded products (by all the definitions of branding that I have ever heard of).

What a sad state of affairs.

We mine a commodity from the ground, and work on it with great effort - only to turn it back in to a commodity

 

[He Scores]

Gary, interesting concept. How many would actually take part would be the most interesting. That in itself may separate the men from the boys, the mavins from the marketers.

I''m not sure how it would play out. it depends. The number of diamonds one had to view could provide confusion. Also, it would depend if the observer was actually part of the manufacturing process or not. Also, it would depend if the stone was processed usuing sectionalized cutters or like Eightstars where one cutter cuts one stone.

I think the one cutter/one stone would be able to pick his work out, but I could be wrong.

I agree that it would be interesting, but like one old diamontaire once told me...."we''re all selling aspirins".

Frankly, I think I could pick the stone that I cut. Depending of course how long had gone by since I cut it. But say I had to cut a stone for the show in Vegas. It would be relatively easy to "memorize" what that particular stone looked like, even if it was to look for one particular *ahem* mistake.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/6/2006 7:02:02 AM
Author: He Scores
Gary, interesting concept. How many would actually take part would be the most interesting. That in itself may separate the men from the boys, the mavins from the marketers.

I''m not sure how it would play out. it depends. The number of diamonds one had to view could provide confusion. Also, it would depend if the observer was actually part of the manufacturing process or not. Also, it would depend if the stone was processed usuing sectionalized cutters or like Eightstars where one cutter cuts one stone.

I think the one cutter/one stone would be able to pick his work out, but I could be wrong.

I agree that it would be interesting, but like one old diamontaire once told me....''we''re all selling aspirins''.

Frankly, I think I could pick the stone that I cut. Depending of course how long had gone by since I cut it. But say I had to cut a stone for the show in Vegas. It would be relatively easy to ''memorize'' what that particular stone looked like, even if it was to look for one particular *ahem* mistake.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

Bill if we were to conduct a test like this then:

1. we would make it random - i.e. the stones would be purchased randmly and the participants would agree to refund the purchase price later.

2. as we know none of them would agre because they know they would risk too much with no possible reward.


The point that I wanted to make is there are no companies really branding diamonds. There are only companies branding "trust me".
That is OK, but it is cottage indurstry stuff - not true global branding - not what cars and fashion houses etc achieve

 

[He Scores]

RE:

Date: 3/6/2006 9:07:32 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 3/6/2006 7:02:02 AM
Author: He Scores
Gary, interesting concept. How many would actually take part would be the most interesting. That in itself may separate the men from the boys, the mavins from the marketers.

I''m not sure how it would play out. it depends. The number of diamonds one had to view could provide confusion. Also, it would depend if the observer was actually part of the manufacturing process or not. Also, it would depend if the stone was processed usuing sectionalized cutters or like Eightstars where one cutter cuts one stone.

I think the one cutter/one stone would be able to pick his work out, but I could be wrong.

I agree that it would be interesting, but like one old diamontaire once told me....''we''re all selling aspirins''.

Frankly, I think I could pick the stone that I cut. Depending of course how long had gone by since I cut it. But say I had to cut a stone for the show in Vegas. It would be relatively easy to ''memorize'' what that particular stone looked like, even if it was to look for one particular *ahem* mistake.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

Bill if we were to conduct a test like this then:

1. we would make it random - i.e. the stones would be purchased randmly and the participants would agree to refund the purchase price later.

2. as we know none of them would agre because they know they would risk too much with no possible reward.


The point that I wanted to make is there are no companies really branding diamonds. There are only companies branding ''trust me''.
That is OK, but it is cottage indurstry stuff - not true global branding - not what cars and fashion houses etc achieve

and RE: We mine a commodity from the ground, and work on it with great effort - only to turn it back in to a commodity



Mining commodities and turning them back into commodities and the "trust me" branding concept are two VERY interesting points Gary.

I''m in agreement with you and it would be interesting to see how others react to these thoughts.

Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[rstillin]

Then these products that are not identifyable are not branded products (by all the definitions of branding that I have ever heard of).

What a sad state of affairs.

We mine a commodity from the ground, and work on it with great effort - only to turn it back in to a commodity


I''m not sure it''s sad at all.
Diamond "performance" is directly tied to the facet angles. The only thing you can drastically change to differentiate yourself is the number of facets (staying among the RBC''s for now).

What if the only good performing car was one with a 100" wheelbase, four 225/50/16 tires, windshield with 30deg angle, 50/50 weight distribution etc. there would not much product differentiation among automobile dealers besides colors.


Farmers turn seeds into crops. They work the land and the result is a product not differentiable among different growers. Think Idaho potatoes. I couldn''t tell the difference between one from Idaho and Montana. They have managed to "brand" their product in a similar manner. It''s about the grower, not the potato.

Farmers/Diamond cutter provide a valuable service turning one commodity into another more valuable one.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 3/5/2006 6:41:13 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would be fun to gather the experts from several branded diamond houses and present them with an ash tray full of diamonds - all from their various brands - but with girdle inscriptions removed.

And ask them to each identify their own diamonds.

I wonder how many could do it?

We are ready for that challenge. Anytime. Rounds will take a lot of time, princesses will be a piece of cake.

Live long,

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/6/2006 3:16:17 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 3/5/2006 6:41:13 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would be fun to gather the experts from several branded diamond houses and present them with an ash tray full of diamonds - all from their various brands - but with girdle inscriptions removed.

And ask them to each identify their own diamonds.

I wonder how many could do it?

We are ready for that challenge. Anytime. Rounds will take a lot of time, princesses will be a piece of cake.

Live long,

good for you Paul

at least you''re willing to stick your head under the guilotine.

 

[Shay37]

Date: 3/6/2006 7:25:36 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/6/2006 3:16:17 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 3/5/2006 6:41:13 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would be fun to gather the experts from several branded diamond houses and present them with an ash tray full of diamonds - all from their various brands - but with girdle inscriptions removed.

And ask them to each identify their own diamonds.

I wonder how many could do it?

We are ready for that challenge. Anytime. Rounds will take a lot of time, princesses will be a piece of cake.

Live long,

good for you Paul

at least you''re willing to stick your head under the guilotine.

Have you seen that man''s princesses. I don''t like princesses as a rule, but I love Paul''s. I have a feeling it would take about 20 seconds to sort through a bowl.

shay

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/6/2006 9:07:32 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


... as we know none of them (experts behind the brands) would agree because they know they would risk too much with no possible reward.

I wonder if that such recognition would not be of quality at all, but small quirk choices made by the cutters providing for each brand. All more difficult if similar stones are sold both branded and not!

IMO, because of such recognizable features that have little to do with the desirability of those diamonds for the intended users, the test would be less impartial if not run on independent experts (preferably informed buyers, lets say). So... (ctd below).




The point that I wanted to make is there are no companies really branding diamonds. There are only companies branding 'trust me'.

Than wouldn't be cool to test the brand recognition (i.e. the 'trust me effect') ... along with differentiation...on buyers? Take a dozen or so of savvy ones... would at least would care about details to begin with.
There's a funny side to it too: most brands claim they are 'the best'. With 10 diamonds infront, if anyone would be asked to ID which belongs to what brand, what on Earth would they have to do based on the information each brand gives out to support their claim to fame?

It looks like the simple fact that either sort of survey is senseless makes a great point - that experts would not agree to ID their goods, or that buyers could not ...

'Branding trust' does not sound like a mockery though, regardless. Unless this is not what buyers expect from them brands. And chastising these trust brands that do not differentiate their products in a visible way, may give an unfair pat on the back to the other camp of cut branding made up of the (ephemeral?) fancies that mushroom as diamond brands.

That being said, at least those others are more interesting.

Thinking of these two sorts of brands... the 'trust me' on traditional shapes and the pushers of new fancies. Sure enough, product vs brand recognition tells them apart. If product recognition would be a great thing, I wonder why the new fancies wane in and out of production like the winter wheat - is that the point? Your mention of 'fashion houses' (cited below) brought that idea up. But... is it?

That is OK, but it is cottage industry stuff - not true global branding - not what cars and fashion houses etc achieve

 

[Jensia]

Thanks sundial. I think yours is drop dead gorgeous

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You are right Ana - no one consumer could relaibly make these distinctions for rounds for example - and since they make up 50% of the market, that means rounds do not really qualify for most defintions of "brand".

And the new patented fancies have an even greater problem now that many consumers will believe and demand GIA Ex or VG cut certs.

The cost to bring an excellent product to market is so high that even companies marketing Gabi Tolkowsky products are strugggling - e.g. today I saw 0.10ct Gabi diamonds being offered for sale. That is hardly prestigious?

We take a commodity out of the ground, manufacture it back into a commodity, and add little or no value to it. A very sad cottage industry.

Why cant we be likem Swarovski who produce high added value products that look great and move with or drive fashions?