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HOF - Dream

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TremontRock

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
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I''m looking at some HOF Dreams (yes they are damn expensive but the princess or the radiant doesn''t seem to do it for me). Would the lucida be that much more at this point?

I will be looking at probably two of these in the next week or so. Any inputs as to which may be the best bet (2 of 3)? They are all similarly priced (~$9000!!!). Should I stay away from the J? Would the tiffany lucida be that much more at this point?

Thanks in advance!

ct. 1.191 1.202 1.22
W 6.93 6.89 7.17
L 5.88 5.83 6.02
D 4.34 4.4 4.31
square 1.18 1.18 1.19
color I J I
clarity SI2 SI1 SI2
CUT
Depth %:62.6 63.9 60.1
Table %:55 53 56
Crown: 40.3 39.0 40
Pavil. 40.9 40.9 40.8
Symmet: 0 0 0
Polish: 0 0 0
Girdle: sthk sthkthik med sthk
Culet: N N N
florsc: N N N
 
If you like the HOF Dream and the Lucida you should check out the new Jubilee cut. Here's a link to Good Old Gold's Jubilee web page:

Jubilee
 
Here's a picture:

gogjubileeweb.jpg
 
Thanks! I've looked at the jubilee but it's not the exact cut I'm looking for (and I'm still a bit leary about buying over the internet).

Thanks,
MK
 
MK,




What specifically do you like about the HOF and Lucida as opposed to the Jubilee? I've seen all three in person, but was wondering why you prefer on over the other?




I don't believe you'll find SI2 clarity or J color in a Lucida.
 
The lowest color grade you can go with Tiffany's is I and the lowest clarity they go to is VS2. You should just go and see both the HOF and Tiffany Lucida in person and see which one you prefer. I believe a Lucida of the same carat weight as the Dream will be a lot more expensive. Probably over $12,000, but you should call Tiffany's to get verification on that. Lucida has more of a brand name, but the dream has a true H&A Pattern. Go with what your eye thinks is better
2.gif
. Your guaranteed getting a good quality diamond either way.
 
I'm not sure why I don't like the jubilee. It has a different cut on the crown from what I can tell. I do like the Queen of Hearts though but again it's not the same cut. I'll probably go look at the lucida tonight and see. I did see a 1.61 lucida that was H VS1 and it wass $20k! but that was also a few months ago.
Is it me or have diamond prices risen significantly?
 
Tremont,

My gf loves the Lucida, but I don't want to pay the Tiffany's mark-up, and I don't think that the Lucida is the best square cut diamond on the market.

In my quest to find a similar (or better) square cut diamond without paying Tiffany's prices, I've happened upon the same stones you're considering. Personally, I love the Dream and think it's much nicer and more consistantly "brilliant" than the Lucida's I saw. Of course I'm very new to diamonds so I could be totally wrong--but my impression is that Tiffany's doesn't worry as much about cut as HOF does.

I'm about to look at some Jubilee's that Jonathan from Good as Gold is sending to D. Atlas for me, and I'm hoping to have a Dream sent there so that I can compare all three. Heck--I might even try to see if Tiffany's will send a Lucida (I doubt they'd do it).

Anyway, I do have one other stone to recommend, the Lucere. From what I've read here on pricescope and from what I've seen, the Lucere cut seems to be the most similar to the cut of the Lucida. I still like the Dream better, but the Lucere is very nice. Go to http://www.cutbygauge.com/lucere.html and either fill out the form or call them and they should be able to help you find a brick and mortar store that carries them near you. The dealer near Philly (who's name escapes me) was great--but I personally like the Dream and Jubilee (at least in pictures) better.

One final thought--I too didn't like the concept of buying a diamond over the internet. But it's easy enough to find a local appraiser and have your potential stones sent there for evaluation before you buy. You may pay a bit extra, but for me, it's worth the peace of mind--and the ability to see before I make a final decision.

Cheers,

Tim
 
Be sure to post after you compare the Jubilee and HOF Dream. I'd be interested to hear what you think of them after you see them next to each other.
 
Will do--that is if I can get the jeweler to send a Dream to D. Atlas. While I certainly think they should be willing to do so, something tells me they won't be likely to allow that.
 
Just two notes I'd like to bring up in this thread concerning the HoF Dreams.

First. Yes they are very beautiful stones. One of the most beautiful squares I've seen. More beautiful than the Jubilee? No way. As beautiful ... that will depend upon your preference.

Also, Dreams are not H&A squares. They are hearts only which is nice but the face up appearance is what counts most.

Another note of interest. On AGS Reports the Dreams measurements are listed as average side to side measurements AND CORNER TO CORNER measurements. Ie. Tremont lists the following....

1.19ct has 6.93 x 5.88mm for circumference.
1.202ct: 6.89 x 5.83mm
1.22ct: 7.17 x 6.02mm

Dreams are *square* and have ratios of 1:1 or perhaps 1.01:1. The stones above, if we are to go according to those measurements have ratios of 1.17-1.19:1 Are they not square? No. AGS is listing corner to corner and side to side measurements and MEASURING THE DEPTH % BASED ON THE CORNER TO CORNER MEASUREMENTS.

So on the surface it appears the Dream has a better spread when in fact they don't. IMO this is a little deceptive cause if the average consumer did not do their homework it could lead them to faulty conclusions.

I'm not saying this to knock the Dream, by no means. But when a person is trying to compare apples with apples and they're looking at the specs, this is deceptive. Their total depths are not compared the same way every other square is judged.

Peace,
 
So the dreams I list ARE square? The first measurements is from a cut corner to the diagnol cut corner? and the second measurement is from side to side?

I assumed they were just not perfectly square and were 1.17-1.19. (A row I had in my spreadsheet that I didn't put up here). So that also means the face up area is smaller than I thought.

Hmmmm....
 
Exactly.
 
Tremont if you examine the Sarin files on the Jubilee's we list you can actually view *both* depending upon the report view you use, except the modified total depth measurement on our Sarin (ie. when you view reports like the MNF report) measures the total depth against the average of *all* the measurements (sides and corners) and not just the corners as it is done with the Dream.

Ie. the picture below is a screen shot of one of the stones in our inventory and the total depth is measured against the side by side measurements as it is with all other squares.

Lengh and width measurements 6.08 - 6.09 x 3.99mm deep... a nice square stone with a total depth of 65.6%. This is how all other squares are judged, based on side to side measurements.
 
woops.. the pic didn't load. here it is.

JUBONFANCY1.gif
 
Now here it is on the MNF Report (MNF is abbreviation for Manufacturers repot).

Note all the diameter measurements on top. The *total* average diameter when we take into account both corners and sides is 6.51mm (hrm... perhaps I should start doing what HOF is?) When we divide the 3.99mm depth by the average diameter of 6.51mm that gives a total depth of 61.3% which you see listed on this graphic.

This however is not what HoF is doing with regards to the measurements on the AGS Report. If my understanding is correct they are not even taking the *average* of all the measurements but strictly the corner to corner measumrents. If we were to do that on this particular diamond it's total depth on the AGS Report would be listed as being 57.6%!!! (3.99mm depth divided by 6.93mm corner measurement).

I really should have this info listed on our tutorial but I do not want to draw negative attention to AGS.

Just looked again at the measurements you listed on the stones above and my understanding is indeed correct.

JUBILEEMNF.gif
 


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On 7/15/2004 3:56:20 PM TremontRock wrote:





I'm not sure why I don't like the jubilee. It has a different cut on the crown from what I can tell. I do like the Queen of Hearts though but again it's not the same cut. I'll probably go look at the lucida tonight and see. I did see a 1.61 lucida that was H VS1 and it wass $20k! but that was also a few months ago.
Is it me or have diamond prices risen significantly?

----------------
Click to expand...

One thing to keep in mind is that a picture that is magnified 10 or 20 times like the Jubilee is going to look different than in real life. The table does in fact look less pronounced and it is in fact a very beautiful stone.



Diamond price have risen, but there is a fairly large premium with Tiffany. I looked at a 2 carat Lucida that was in excess of 30K!



If you can, I think you really need to see these stones and decide for yourself. Bear in mind that both the HoF and Tiffany will carry a farily large premium that may be well worth it to you.



As far as buying from the internet, you should not be concerned. GOG has a 30 day money back policy and a lifetime upgrade and buy back. They will even send it and appraisor on approval for you to look at before you send the money.



Good luck. Let us know what you think after looking at them.
 
Rhino - Thanks for the info. I think I'll go back and look at the measurements on my Jubilee.
 
If you're looking at House of Fire (Wallet on Fire) Dreams, then you should definitely consider the Lucere, Jubilee, Regent, or the to-be-named square Hope International diamond.

I purchased one of the first Jubilees from Jonathan and couldn't be happier, but it's not for everyone. It still has a bit of a pricetag on it. Less than Tiffany, Elara, or HoF by a long shot, but still more than RBCs.

You won't go wrong if you choose GOG as your vendor though. Jonathan is patient beyong measure!
 
Well I did look at a Lucida this evening. It was 1.01 G, VVS1 and it was $13,200!! So that's out!

I am now reconsidering a princess I've looked at. Are the depth and table okay?

price $7,500
ct. 1.57
W 6.39
L 6.09
D
square? 1.05
color I
clarity SI1
Depth %: 76.5
Table %: 67
 
Was the $13,200 for the diamond and the setting or just the diamond?

The depth% on the princess seems a little high. Something in the high 60s to low 70s would probably be better.
 
the $13,200 was for the diamond and the setting.

Thanks for the feedback on the princess!
 
I'm not sure how much the HOF Dreams are but I'm pretty sure you could get a similar Jubilee and Vatche setting for a lot less than the Lucida.
 
The last reference I have is for stones in a given weight range, say 0.6 to0.7 carats the HoF Dream was 2.3 times more on a $/carat basis. Yes, it's not a typo, the list price was over 200% more for a HoF Dream compared to a Jubilee of similar specs. Now I don't know if HoF discounts. At that point I figured it wasn't worth asking.
 
Take a look at the Star129 diamond. You will love it. Blows Hof away and at a much better price. Check it out at www.star129.com
 
Rhino;

HOF has a .86 H VVS1 Dream on it's website with the following numbers:

Depth%: 59.1
Table%: 55.0
Measurements: 6.40 x 5.45 x 3.78

How does this compare size wise to my Jubilee?
 
Does that mean the HOF Dream I just listed would be 5.45 x 5.45 x 3.78 if it was measured the same way you measure Jubilees? Would that make the depth% 69.4%?
 
From the site, it looks as if Star129 is just a modified RB. I believe the poster is looking for a square shape.
 
TremontRock;

I did a comparison to see what the cost difference was between the HOF Dream and a Jubilee.

I used the .85 H VVS1 Jubilee that I just bought and compared it to a .86 H VVS1 HOF Dream that's listed on HOF's website. The price my local HOF dealer quoted me for the HOF Dream was 71% higher than what I paid for my Jubilee.
 


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On 7/16/2004 8:18:59 AM ep6585 wrote:





Does that mean the HOF Dream I just listed would be 5.45 x 5.45 x 3.78 if it was measured the same way you measure Jubilees? Would that make the depth% 69.4%?
----------------
Click to expand...

Exactly.



Do you understand how they got their total depth % measurement? They divided the 3.78mm depth measurement by the 6.40 corner/corner measurement and arrive at a bogus 59.1% total depth percent.
 
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