Hey Hey controversy

[justginger]

As a fairly new Australian, I never saw the original "Hey, Hey, It''s Saturday." However, they''re doing reunion shows now. From what I gather, it''s an old school variety show.

Anyway, they had a blackface routine on, mimicing the Jackson Five (called the Jackson Jive). They were awful anyway, but the fact that they had blacked their faces has caused international outrage. Even the Aboriginals here are up in arms about it, though to be quite frank I don''t understand how they''re offended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-QIoLbvLT4

So - what do you think? Racist or not? I am very on the fence with my opinion and I''ve been dragged into so many discussions about it, it''s not even funny. To my knowledge, Australians never really had "blackface comedy" -- they never used vaudeville-type acts to poke fun at or degrade a group of individuals. Because of that, I don''t think any of them really SEE the racism in dressing up black. One of my coworkers said, "if a dude puts on a wig and a padded bra to mimic a woman, is he degrading all women?" Of course the answer is no, unless he is behaving in a ridiculous manner. Somehow, with the history of blackface and blatent racism, painting yourself black automatically throws up red PR flags, even if you''re not doing anything silly or mocking.

I am glad Harry Connick Jr said something -- and I am glad the host apologized if the routine offended anyone. I guess my bottom line is that Australia can be a bit racist, but I don''t think this was an example of it. As a culture, they revel in poking fun and being "larrrikins." It''s a much more racially diverse nation than what I experienced growing up in the midwest, and I think they make fun of EVERYONE EQUALLY. So I guess they can''t be racist if they''re not discriminating in their jest?

 

[DivaDiamond007]

I only watched about two minutes of the video since I''m at work and I''ve never heard of a blackface routine before but NO, I don''t think this particular performance was meant to be racist. How is the face paint any different from wearing a mask or some other costume? Maybe I''m out of the loop since I''m A) young and B) white. Racist or not the performance was still not very good.

 

[honey22]

You know what, as an Aussie, this really p*sses me off! Just because a few bloody idiots do a stupid skit on a variety show, that doesn''t mean the whole country are racists! It''s a ridiculous over-generalisation and I find it very offensive.

justginger, your comment that ''I guess my bottom line is that Australia can be a bit racist'' - where does this come from? A 2 minute comedy sketch? That''s a bit harsh isn''t it.

Every single country in the world have some people that are racist. For the worldwide media to declare our whole country racist is just beyond belief!

And for the record, the main guy who wrote that skit was an Indian!!!!

 

[justginger]

My opinion on the racism of Australia does not come from a 2 minute sketch. It comes from living here for the last 4 years. I immigrated at the tender age of 21 and was absolutely shocked by the racism I saw. Remember Cronulla? That happened about the time I was moving here and I was absolutely floored. I grew up in an area of the US called "little Dixie" if that tells you anything about our history of racism -- and I still experience more of it in my daily life in an Aussie capital city than I did in a small midwest redneck town. I can''t even count how many times I''ve heard people complaining about "bloody Asians buying our good Aussie mining companies, gonna turn us all into gooks," "bloody Indians, why do we even let them be doctors here? Can''t understand a word they say!", etc.

I was once told by a woman at Bunnings that it was my "duty" to have three children, since I was "such a pretty little white girl" - one for me, one for my husband, and one for Australia ("cause there are just too many Asians here now"). And I''ve been the butt of so much nastiness for being American, and I''m white! I''ve actually had someone get about 3 inches away from my face and spit at me, "I f*ing pity you, you f*ing Yank, and I hope all of your Yank friends in Iraq die."

If that''s not racism, I''m not sure what is. And that''s not even taking the elephant in the room into consideration -- Aboriginals. I have no solution to offer for that situation, but if you don''t consider racism to be endemic in Australia, I think you''ve got your head buried in the sand.

You''re right - there are racists everywhere, in all cultures. I just personally have found a lot more of it in Australia than I grew up with in the States. I have heard from other, older Americans who have immigrated here that Australia is much like the US was about 30 years ago (which is fabulous in some ways, think crime rates, and not so good in other ways, think racism/sexism). I think it''s a beautiful, fantastic place and would be very hard pressed to choose which country I love more -- but I think racism is a big problem here. The US definitely has its share of problems as well, so please don''t think I''m playing favorites or picking on Australia. I could post a topic about the number of violent homicides in the US versus Australia...which most people would find to be much more disturbing that a ridiculous blackface routine.

 

[E B]

Date: 10/9/2009 10:47:02 AM
Author: DivaDiamond007
How is the face paint any different from wearing a mask or some other costume?

A brief history of Blackface Minstrelsy.

 

[DivaDiamond007]

From the Wiki article: White blackface performers in the past used burnt cork and later greasepaint or shoe polish to blacken their skin and exaggerate their lips, often wearing woolly wigs, gloves, tailcoats, or ragged clothes to complete the transformation. Later, black artists also performed in blackface. (Emphasis mine.)

So...is this like the "N" word where it''s okay for blacks to do but not others? I''m not trying to be a smarta$$, but I just really don''t get it. I skimmed the article and it seems that it really was nothing more than costuming that some blacks (and whites!) felt was inappropriate and racist.

Obviously this is something that could easily get out of hand and be racist, but does anybody watch tv today with all the stereotypes that are portrayed? I caught the new show, The Cleveland Show, created by Seth McFarlane (Family Guy) and there were some pretty blatant white stereotypes portrayed on that show and nobody''s up in arms about that. How was blackface any worse and/or different?

As I stated in my first post; I am a young white woman and I admit that I have never even heard of this before it was mentioned recently so maybe I''m not getting the full gist of just how offiensive it can be to blacks, and I am sorry if I''ve inadvertantly offended any members here due to my comments.

 

[twirlingbubbles]

justginger

I''m new to Australia too, and have had some very funny experiences in my brief time here.

Here are some comments received from aquaintances I would normally consider good company:

1: I can''t stand the idea of my mate marrying a yank. If it''s alright with you, I''d prefer to think of you as Canadian. It just sits better with me.

2: You know, America is the most racist country in the world. I know that because I''ve watched a lot of movies.

3. (because all good things come in threes) I was also asked to not use my Japanese first name and to adopt an Anglo name for professional use - so as not to give the appearance of being too Asian. "It will be better for you, darling, trust me!"

These comments just make me laugh, and I don''t take them at all seriously. But yes, racial ignorance is rampant everywhere, and certainly not limited to Australia. I find it interesting that as a former colony of the British empire, many Aussies refuse to find more similarities with the US, and whilst encouraging businesses to make their Asia-Pac Headquarters in Australia, reject Asians outright. I understand that European immigrants (from Italy, Greece and Malta) were considered the unwashed immigrants prior to the Asian Invasion.

As for Hey Hey, we both watched it (my Australian partner and I), and both agreed that Harry Connick Jr. and the show''s host handled it with a fair amount of class. HCJ gave it a zero, but wasn''t huffy or insulting about it. A more thoughtful explanation and a gracious apology by the host afforded the issue the sensitivity and gravity it deserved without finger-wagging. I think the offensive nature of black-face is rooted in the complex and uncomfortable context of American social history which the rest of the world may not understand. America has come a long way down a violent and bloody road grappling with racism and identity... Australia must find her own path.

Best of luck to you, and may many Aussie neighbors find your accent charming!

 

[Squirrly]

Date: 10/12/2009 9:38:13 AM
Author: DivaDiamond007
From the Wiki article: White blackface performers in the past used burnt cork and later greasepaint or shoe polish to blacken their skin and exaggerate their lips, often wearing woolly wigs, gloves, tailcoats, or ragged clothes to complete the transformation. Later, black artists also performed in blackface. (Emphasis mine.)


So...is this like the ''N'' word where it''s okay for blacks to do but not others? I''m not trying to be a smarta$$, but I just really don''t get it. I skimmed the article and it seems that it really was nothing more than costuming that some blacks (and whites!) felt was inappropriate and racist.


Obviously this is something that could easily get out of hand and be racist, but does anybody watch tv today with all the stereotypes that are portrayed? I caught the new show, The Cleveland Show, created by Seth McFarlane (Family Guy) and there were some pretty blatant white stereotypes portrayed on that show and nobody''s up in arms about that. How was blackface any worse and/or different?


As I stated in my first post; I am a young white woman and I admit that I have never even heard of this before it was mentioned recently so maybe I''m not getting the full gist of just how offiensive it can be to blacks, and I am sorry if I''ve inadvertantly offended any members here due to my comments.

"Stereotyped blackface characters developed: buffoonish, lazy, superstitious, cowardly, and lascivious characters, who stole, lied pathologically, and mangled the English language. Early blackface minstrels were all male, so cross-dressing white men also played black women who were often portrayed either as unappealingly and grotesquely mannish; in the matronly, mammy mold; or highly sexually provocative."
(from the same wiki article)

it wasn''t that it was ok for them to do but offensive for others, it was one of the few ''professions'' they could get during that time.

"Despite reinforcing racist stereotypes, blackface minstrelsy was a practical and often relatively lucrative livelihood when compared to the menial labor to which most blacks were relegated. Owing to the discrimination of the day, "corking (or "blacking") up" provided an often singular opportunity for African-American musicians, actors, and dancers to practice their crafts."

hope that helps clear things up. while it doesn''t have the same connotation worldwide it''s taboo in the US

 

[Lovinggems]

Date: 10/11/2009 5:29:06 AM
Author: honey22
You know what, as an Aussie, this really p*sses me off! Just because a few bloody idiots do a stupid skit on a variety show, that doesn''t mean the whole country are racists! It''s a ridiculous over-generalisation and I find it very offensive.

justginger, your comment that ''I guess my bottom line is that Australia can be a bit racist'' - where does this come from? A 2 minute comedy sketch? That''s a bit harsh isn''t it.

Every single country in the world have some people that are racist. For the worldwide media to declare our whole country racist is just beyond belief!

And for the record, the main guy who wrote that skit was an Indian!!!!

Ok, but isn''t he an Australian citizen? So you don''t consider him to be Australian because he has an Indian background and don''t fit into your perception of a typical Australian? So what''s your definition of an Australian?

 

[bobbin]

I don''t think a US vs Australia comparison is very helpful. I think that there are racist people in both America and Australia.

I also think it really depends on whereabouts you live and who your friends are. I don''t have ANY racist friends. My group of friends are all intelligent, university educated people who don''t show any kind of racism at all. I have friends and acquaintances who represent many different nationalities.

Having said that Australians can be very xenophobic. They are scared of the "other". I think that this was really played upon by John Howard during his time as prime minister and is slowly going away.

I have never lived in America, but from what I have seen, heard and read in the media (I am talking news here, and also reading things on this forum, not movies and fictional shows), there is still rampant racism in America.

Basically my point is that there are individuals in both countries who are racist, but there is no need to try and paint an entire country as racist. In fact, doesn''t that count as racism also??

 

[bobbin]

Date: 10/13/2009 10:32:21 AM
Author: Lovinggems

Date: 10/11/2009 5:29:06 AM

Author: honey22

You know what, as an Aussie, this really p*sses me off! Just because a few bloody idiots do a stupid skit on a variety show, that doesn''t mean the whole country are racists! It''s a ridiculous over-generalisation and I find it very offensive.


justginger, your comment that ''I guess my bottom line is that Australia can be a bit racist'' - where does this come from? A 2 minute comedy sketch? That''s a bit harsh isn''t it.


Every single country in the world have some people that are racist. For the worldwide media to declare our whole country racist is just beyond belief!


And for the record, the main guy who wrote that skit was an Indian!!!!

Ok, but isn''t he an Australian citizen? So you don''t consider him to be Australian because he has an Indian background and don''t fit into your perception of a typical Australian? So what''s your definition of an Australian?

I think that there can be a difference between an Australian citizen and an "Australian". I don''t think it depends on nationality or country of origin, but a self perception of themselves as being Australian. It could be that they believe themselves to be both, for example, Indian and Australian, but there needs to be a self perception that this is their home and this is their country.

I don''t think Honey was trying to say that she doesn''t consider him to be Australian just because he has an Indian background, but more along my lines above, or that was what she had heard in the media also, but this is just conjecture as well and I will let Honey explain herself properly! What I am trying to say is that I don''t think that picking on this one line is very fair as it seems to be taking it out of context.

 

[Lovinggems]

Date: 10/14/2009 12:03:40 AM
Author: bobbin

Date: 10/13/2009 10:32:21 AM
Author: Lovinggems

Date: 10/11/2009 5:29:06 AM

Author: honey22

You know what, as an Aussie, this really p*sses me off! Just because a few bloody idiots do a stupid skit on a variety show, that doesn''t mean the whole country are racists! It''s a ridiculous over-generalisation and I find it very offensive.


justginger, your comment that ''I guess my bottom line is that Australia can be a bit racist'' - where does this come from? A 2 minute comedy sketch? That''s a bit harsh isn''t it.


Every single country in the world have some people that are racist. For the worldwide media to declare our whole country racist is just beyond belief!


And for the record, the main guy who wrote that skit was an Indian!!!!

Ok, but isn''t he an Australian citizen? So you don''t consider him to be Australian because he has an Indian background and don''t fit into your perception of a typical Australian? So what''s your definition of an Australian?

I think that there can be a difference between an Australian citizen and an ''Australian''. I don''t think it depends on nationality or country of origin, but a self perception of themselves as being Australian. It could be that they believe themselves to be both, for example, Indian and Australian, but there needs to be a self perception that this is their home and this is their country.

I don''t think Honey was trying to say that she doesn''t consider him to be Australian just because he has an Indian background, but more along my lines above, or that was what she had heard in the media also, but this is just conjecture as well and I will let Honey explain herself properly! What I am trying to say is that I don''t think that picking on this one line is very fair as it seems to be taking it out of context.

The bolded, singular line was the emphasised concluding point, no? I don''t think I''m taking this one line out of context, but I see no value to point out the guy was of Indian origin, to me it was an unnecessary line and may seemed a bit questionable for others that were reading her post.

I don''t think we''re being painted racist as a whole, but rather we''re not very aware of other cultures''/countries'' sensitive issues.

 

[softly softly]

Justginger can I ask if your experience of Australia is limited to Perth? I don''t want to offend any one who comes from Perth because I think it is a beautiful city and a great place to live, but having lived there and on the East Coast I don''t really consider it representative of mainstream Australia. The poster who commented that Australian''s are xenophobic had a very good point, to a large extent we are. I think it comes from the fact that culturally we identify with the West despite being geographically East (as a small child I remember being surprised and confused to learn that Australia was so far away from England) and in my opinion that feeling is slightly more pronounced in Perth, perhaps due to it''s own isolation from the more heavily populated areas of the country.

I think the attitudes you have encountered, while offensive, are indicative of a feeling of isolation. I was rather taken aback when I moved to Perth for the first time 10 years ago by how hostile many people where towards the Eastern States. ''Oh your from over East'' was a comment I heard many times. Obviously far less offensive than what you have been subjected to, but trust me the inference was not positive. I soon learnt that ''over East'' pretty much referred to anything past Kalgoorlie, or as my Thesis supervisor used to joke, anything past Midland.

The other thing I noticed about Perth when I lived there was that most immigrants seemed to be either from the UK or South Africa, so demographically it is very different to Melbourne and Sydney. However, as it has been 5 years since I lived there I should add that I am probably no longer qualified to speak of the attitude of it''s people, although my husband spent most of his childhood in the Northern suburbs and still passes through there regularly for work.

 

[justginger]

Yes, softly, my inferences are solely based on Perth. I am very heartened by the idea that the rest of the country may be a bit further along in its social etiquette development.

Thank goodness the beautiful sunsets and gorgeous climate make up for a few uneducated comments here and there!

 

[kiett98]

Racist. Very.