Help with my blue sapphire purchase!

[mahaha]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, and I really appreciate the members on this forum for their participation and education.

I finally decided to post, because I plan to make one of my most important purchases and do not want to go wrong!

Here's the story:

I'm looking for a blue sapphire investment grade stone to be set on an engagement ring.

In my research, I concluded that I want a stone that is unheated, and preferably over 2ct.
My girlfriend likes oval/cushion. I think a length-to-width ratio of 1.3 would look nice. Maybe 6x8mm.
My budget is around 8-12k CAD, of course, the lower the better.
My priorities: Quality, then size

Personally, I don't like it when the sapphire is too dark (looks like black from far away).
I've been searching on NSC and came across a few I like:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/p-65577-cushion-blue-sapphire-b8223/
- a bit small though

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/p-65807-oval-blue-sapphire-b8282/
- a bit too dark, imo

and
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/p-61144-cushion-blue-sapphire-b7144/
- my favourite so far, but pricey.

I also just came across gemsny.com. I've read mixed reviews for both companies. This is probably to be expected for buying something online which you cannot see. NSC was nice enough to send me additional pictures and videos for me to compare numerous stones side-by-side. Which helped a lot.

Currently, my first choice is B7144 (last link). Do you guys think it is worth the price? They have 15% off right now.
Any other buying advice? I've seen gemfix, but they do not post enough detailed photos for me to make any judgments. Also, is it me or their "gem in hand" pictures very obviously photoshoped?

Your opinions and expertise are appreciated!
Hg

 

[boerumbiddy]

I was tempted by something that is on Loupetroop right now. It's the wrong shape, but a pretty blue, unheated and large, and looks like a bargain.https://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/unheated-ceylon-blue-sapphire-2-dot-64-cts;14747

 

[mahaha]

Thanks boerumbiddy!

I came across loupetroop, but haven't really looked into. Seems like a nice market place for gemstones.

I'll take a look at your suggestion. Cheers!

 

[livannie]

I like your favorite the best out of the three you posted but it seems overpriced to me. I also like the one boerumbiddy posted. Very pretty.
I also like this one from etsy that comes with an AGL report and is unheated and a cushion. Though I don't know anything about the seller.
I think you could find something just as pretty/prettier for less money than the NSC is asking for.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/220131640/207-carat-unheated-blue-sapphire-agl?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=unheated%20blue%20sapphire&ref=sr_gallery_2

 

[mahaha]

I figured I would add some pictures. I listed 3 stones from NSC. I indicated that I like the 3rd stone.

The 3rd stone actually lights a bit brighter in the video (not posted). I read that once you set the stone in the ring, it darkens a little, correct? In that case, I would prefer it to be lighter.

@livannie, I suspected the stone is pricey, but so far I can't find a stone like that. It also has the shape that I like. Did you factor in an 18% discount? It's their promotion + bank wire discount.

See images:

1st stone - top right
2nd stone - top left
3rd stone - bottom left


3rd stone - bottom right.

Thanks again!

 

[SparkliesLuver]

If you're wanting "investment grade," then you should have it custom cut by a skilled lapidary. I'd contact Jeff White of Whites Gems and have him cut/re-cut something for you.

https://www.facebook.com/whitesgems
http://www.whitesgems.com/

 

[Arcadian]

Gemfix almost always gives a pantone color, so you can go look up the color yourself. To my knowledge they don't photoshop images. They may adjust for white balance but sometimes its necessary.

Investment grade would be 5ct or more in ideal color. Would need a report that includes origin from a high level lab: GIA, GRS, AGL, etc. Unheated would be an "of course".

Have to say it; your budget isn't big enough for investment grade in today's money. HOWEVER, you can still get a great stone for what you've allotted.

I would advise looking and reading about sapphires. Education is going to be your best friend here.
https://www.gia.edu/sapphire
http://gemresearch.ch/pigeons-blood-royal-blue/

Here's a small one that sold for a bit over 8k which was a GRS Type Royal Blue note the size, thats important.
http://www.africagems.com/cushion-blue-sapphire-g2k-5450.html

If you're looking outside ideal color and, are bendable on heat (there's some great heat only stones out there) you can expand your horizon and get a lot of bang for your buck.

Another thing, consider how you will set your stone. Are you going for prong set or bezel? it matters. If you get too dark of a stone, it will darken even further when you set it by possibly a shade or 2. Some people don't care but I thought I would bring it up.

And if your intended is keen on a sapphire, you both will need to be cognizant that sapphires shift (ok all stones shift) in color. Sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, it depends on your environment.

 

[mahaha]

Hi Arcadian,

Thank you for your advice.

I plan to have the stone set in a halo setting. I presume this will darken the stone a bit too. I am looking for a medium stone so it won't be too dark.

I also have some new stones to consider.

http://gemrite.com/home/191-blue-sapphire-264-cts.html
Also looks nice, but doesn't seem to sparkle as much as the others.

http://gemrite.com/home/208-violet-blue-sapphire-300-cts.html
I like the shape and size!

http://www.finewatergems.com/store/p237/2.14_ct_Unheated_Ceylon_Sapphire.html
Seems like one side is more saturated on the other side. This also seen on the video I received.

Thoughts? Thanks again!

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

I've bought several sapphires from WildFish. They were all great and I love the little extras.

I almost bought this one awhile ago. It is unheated and precision cut: https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_06/10880/19708

You will find others over two carat are here: https://www.wildfishgems.com/blue_sapphire_over_2_carat

 

[chrono]

Arcadian shared very valuable advice.

Of your 3 options, I like these 2:

http://gemrite.com/home/208-violet-blue-sapphire-300-cts.html

http://www.finewatergems.com/store/p237/2.14_ct_Unheated_Ceylon_Sapphire.html
If the shadowing bothers you, take a look a the 2.08 Gemrite stone.

 

[Arcadian]

Have you noticed we love to help people spend money well? Its really about making the most informed decision you can. I'll put my thoughts on your stones in red below

Hi Arcadian,

Thank you for your advice.

I plan to have the stone set in a halo setting. I presume this will darken the stone a bit too. I am looking for a medium stone so it won't be too dark.
Halos can indeed darken the stone. You will want to make sure as your designing the ring that you allow for enough light around your stone, especially below it. But, you don't want to set the stone sky high either because that kind of negates the halo right? We have lots of ring experts here who are more than happy to help you tweak your design when that time comes

I also have some new stones to consider.

http://gemrite.com/home/191-blue-sapphire-264-cts.html
Also looks nice, but doesn't seem to sparkle as much as the others.

This is a gorgeous stone. The cut looks chunkier to me so you get more flashes than sparkles, and chunky cuts aren't everyone's cup of tea. Also note its got a larger table than the one below it. The color is really gorgeous. Worth seeing in person, does lean slightly to med-dark. Note the size though, its roughly an 8x6. Smaller than the one below but would do great in a halo, will darken maybe a shade but I think should be fine.

http://gemrite.com/home/208-violet-blue-sapphire-300-cts.html
I like the shape and size!

Its quite more violet than the above stone,( I do indeed love violet ). So you have to decide if you want blue blue or a violet that has some blue. I love the table on this (small table) and the cut gives it more sparkle. If you like violet its the one I'd go for because the size is enormous and cut is beautiful (roughly 9x7)

http://www.finewatergems.com/store/p237/2.14_ct_Unheated_Ceylon_Sapphire.html
Seems like one side is more saturated on the other side. This also seen on the video I received.

Sapphires can have some interesting zoning issues, it might be some of that, but then again it could just be the shape itself. Ovals are kinda weird. They can have issues where half will just turn off to the eye, which can be a bit jarring. Its a known thing and if it really bugs you, then might not be the stone for you. Some won't do it after being set and some do it all the time. But color and cut are beautiful. If this stone is calling your name, worth checking it out in person to see if it still does that thing you don't like so much.

Thoughts? Thanks again!

All the above stones are very nice and workable but they're all very different. The above vendors have good return policies but make sure you ask lots of questions prior. No need to waste money or time when you don't need to right? You'd have to do a custom ring for the best fitting of the stone (which I'm sure you're aware of) but would still fit comfortably inside your allotted budget.

 

[mahaha]

Hi all thank you for the replies!

@normaninthesky..

Thank for the suggestion! I'll dig through their site. In my first look, their stone seems to have a higher price.

@Chrono

Thank you for your input! However, I can't find the 2.08 one you mentioned. How do you compare these stones with the one I like from NSC? Also please see my inquiry below.

@Arcadian

Thanks for the heads up, will definitely seek design advice after I find stone!

I might be open to violet, but I still prefer blue. I'll attach some internet pictures of the kind of blue I'm aiming for.

Here is my inquiry:

I reside in Canada, which means that it is difficult to see many of these stones in person, even with excellent return policies. Dealing with the border and import taxes is a headache. So I can only rely on videos and pictures.

Throughout my search, I see that some stones "appear" like there's glass on top of the stone's colour. Almost as if the colour is on the bottom of the stone. Like the ones from finewater and gemrite. However, in some pictures like the ones I've attached, this isn't the case. Could this be because of the cut? I notice it more with precision cut gems. Hopefully I'm explaining myself clearly.

My other concern, however, is that in those videos, the stone's colour seems to go "dead" at some angles. I'm not sure if extinction is the word the describe it, but if you watch the video of the 3.00ct violet one, it seems to do a lot of that. You can also see it happen when you tilt the stone from face up to the side. Is this a characteristic of most stones? Or maybe it's more prominent for lighter stones? I do not notice this in the video with the NSC stones.

Thanks again!

 

[chrono]

The 2.08 is the one you are considering from Gemrite.

Have you seen the ones from NSC in person? I ask because I'm not loving them 100%. Do you have links to the video of the NSC stones?

Any stone isn't going to be performing 100% all over all the time. It's just the nature of light play vs angles. This is why static pictures can be deceiving and I prefer to view a video where possible.

 

[mahaha]

@ Chrono

See if these links works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHxYadVnYGs&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSDVwUCDIpc&feature=youtu.be

Thanks

 

[chrono]

Both have been removed.

 

[mahaha]

Both have been removed.

Thanks for your patience, please try again. I think I had the security on too high. It should work now.

 

[chrono]

I found the 2.33 ct on NSC and noted the depth - be prepared for a custom setting due to the 94% depth. You are also paying for a 2.3 ct stone but what you are seeing is the same dimension of a 1.7 ct stone. I noticed some natural indents at the girdle but that's not a dealbreaker.

What is the light source in the videos?
You have these stones in hand?

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Wrong shape....but wot the heck...

https://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-colored-gemstone/beautiful-2-dot-30-carats-mid-blue-sapphire-heat-only

cheers--Sharon

 

[mahaha]

I found the 2.33 ct on NSC and noted the depth - be prepared for a custom setting due to the 94% depth. You are also paying for a 2.3 ct stone but what you are seeing is the same dimension of a 1.7 ct stone. I noticed some natural indents at the girdle but that's not a dealbreaker.

What is the light source in the videos?
You have these stones in hand?

I will be do a custom setting as I will be working with a family friend jeweler.

I'm not sure about the light source. I will have the stone on hand tonight. I can post some pictures as soon as I get back from work.
I will have 14 days from today to return the stone back to NSC.

Thank you for your time!

 

[mahaha]

I was looking around Wildfish gems and found these:

https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_20/1086/18938
2.20ct
Lively Cornflower Blue
Medium Dark 65
Lightly Included

and

https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_06/13262/19708
2.06 Carat
Sparkly Cornflower Blue
Medium Dark 70
Lightly Included
(The one @norman.. recommended)

Probably the 2.06ct is out of my price range. Just curious as to why these ones are so much more than the other ones? (For education purposes!)

2.20ct is still in my price range though!

Thanks again

 

[mahaha]

I just wanted to update my list to include:

http://gemrite.com/home/207-blue-sapphire-482-cts.html
- beautiful! I wonder if it is actually too big

Gemrites stones seem to also have a higher depth percentage. I don't think that is too much of an issue right?

@Chrono, you mentioned that having a higher depth% requires a custom setting. Could you elaborate?

Thanks again all!

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

I was looking around Wildfish gems and found these:

https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_20/1086/18938
2.20ct
Lively Cornflower Blue
Medium Dark 65
Lightly Included

and

https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_06/13262/19708
2.06 Carat
Sparkly Cornflower Blue
Medium Dark 70
Lightly Included
(The one @norman.. recommended)

Probably the 2.06ct is out of my price range. Just curious as to why these ones are so much more than the other ones? (For education purposes!)

2.20ct is still in my price range though!

Thanks again

I think it is the precision cut that makes the difference.

 

[chrono]

The Gemrite sapphire is gone?

70% depth is normal. 90% isn't normal.

Most settings can take 70% depth but when it is overly deep at over 90%, you have to build the setting around the stone, plus the stone is going to sit very high on the finger potentially causing these issues:

1. Top heavy, so it will spin
2. Sits high, so more likely to snag on clothes, scratch others, and get knocked about (and might get damaged)

 

[mahaha]

The Gemrite sapphire is gone?

70% depth is normal. 90% isn't normal.

Most settings can take 70% depth but when it is overly deep at over 90%, you have to build the setting around the stone, plus the stone is going to sit very high on the finger potentially causing these issues:

1. Top heavy, so it will spin
2. Sits high, so more likely to snag on clothes, scratch others, and get knocked about (and might get damaged)

Yes. I think Gemrite put it up so that I could see it. He's giving me a special offer.

Basically the stone is 4.28ct about 10x7.5x7mm. Color is similar to his 2.58ct one. Rectangular cushion. In this case, probably the stone will be too big?

Most of the stones from Gemrite have a depth ~90%, some at finewater as well. I was also concerned about the stone sitting too high. What's a good stone height for around a size 4 ring?

Still waiting on the delivery of the NSC stone


Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[mahaha]

Basically the stone is 4.28ct about 10x7.5x7mm. Color is similar to his 2.58ct one. Rectangular cushion. In this case, probably the stone will be too big?

Actually it is 4.83.

 

[mahaha]

Hi all,

After doing some more digging I've compiled the few stones that I'm considering. I would like to make a decision soon, and your inputs are appreciated. I also acknowledge that some thoughts have already been shared on the first two stones. I was assured by Finewater that there is no unevenness in the colour of the stone.

Here they are, in no particular order:

2.14ct
Dimensions: 7.67 x 6.42 x 5.12 mm
Clarity: VVS
http://www.finewatergems.com/store/p237/2.14_ct_Unheated_Ceylon_Sapphire.html
Comments:
Seems like a great value. I like the colour and the shine. The shape is only so-so for me.

3.00ct
Clarity: VVS2
Dimensions: 8.68x 6.70x 6.05 mm
Design: Cushion Rectangular cushion barion
http://gemrite.com/home/208-violet-blue-sapphire-300-cts.html
Comments: Seems like a really good value. This is the ideal shape and size imo.

4.82 cts.
Clarity: VVS2
Dimensions: 10.47x 7.50x 6.98 mm
Design: Cushion Rectangular cushion barion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB7c21jQ-iI&feature=youtu.be
Comments:
Incredibly large stone. I do love the colour, slightly more compared to the violet one above. However, I'm not sure if it would be actually too big for the ring.

2.20ct
Measures: 7.91x6.70x4.85 (millimeter)
Color Grade: Very Good
Tone: MD65
Color Zoning: None
Clarity: Lightly Included
Cutting Grade: Very Good
Brilliancy: 85%
Depth: 72%
https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_2_20/1086/18938
Comments:
Most expensive of the bunch. Also the highest $/ct. Looks like it will sparkle well, though!

Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far! Your suggestions and advice are extremely helpful!

 

[mahaha]

Hi all,

Just picked up the NSC stone. Wanted to share some pictures.

 

[mahaha]

Hi all,

Just wanted to get your opinion on this one.

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/222...pphire-oval-shape-for?ref=shop_home_active_10

Thanks!

 

[chrono]

What's your opinion of the NSC sapphire now that you have it in hand?

 

[mahaha]

Thanks for checking in Chrono.

I ended up returning the NSC stone. The last hand picture was more representative of the actual view. It seemed a bit dull and not as brilliant. I figured, for that money, I could probably get something better or bigger. Finewater has a 2.14ct for about half the price. Also, for the same price, I could get Finewater's 3.28ct stone, however, that one is heat treated.

It is also difficult to not be able to compare the stones side by side in the same conditions.

I also reached out the Jeff at whitegems to see if he has anything suitable. The candidate is shown in the photo.

I'm kind of lost now, I still haven't found the "perfect" one.