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help with judging this diamond

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
Hi everyone,

I've recently decided to take the plunge and buy a diamond for my lovely woman! After many months of looking around domestically and internationally I've found someone in Hong Kong who can do a good job and at a very reasonable price.

The diamond he has quoted me to use is 2116598860, a D colour SI1. Now i know and have researched quite a bit and these are the specs i want however can someone look at it as a second opinion?

there are a few things im worries about
-many jewelers have said to get excellent cut and symmetry with pear diamonds and to have fluroscence at none, this one sits at very good for both symmetry and cut and faint for fluroscence. From your opinions is this ok and considering its a D colour would that give it enough sparkle?
-another jeweler mentioned its important to have thick proportions, is this correct and something important?
- are the inlcusions on this diamond a worry? It seems there are quite a few and i cant see an actual photo showing the inclusions (where can i find an actual picture of the diamond if possible)??

thanks so much for your help!!!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
Rule number one: you cannot buy a fancy cut stone (and I don't recommend even buying a round) without seeing it or having magnified images. I might think one out of 20 pear stones would be worthy of buying. You absolutely have pictures. We cannot tell a single thing by looking at the GIA report. I strongly advise NOT buying unless they provide you with magnified images, and then you can post them here.

You can go to a site like James Allen which has videos of all the diamonds. That is the only way to find a good pear diamond. Color has zero to do with sparkle. You should look at D-F if you want a colorless stone, but I would personally add G, as well. Cut is what determines how much a stone sparkles and pears are NOT the most sparkly stones by any means. Any jeweler who is trying to sell you a diamond sight unseen would not have my trust. And under no circumstances would I buy an SI1 without the magnified images. Ask him for magnified pictures and stop the deal immediately if he cannot provide them.

Is a pear diamond what she has told you she wants? If so, that's great. If not, that is not a shape to surprise someone with.
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
alexaqq|1464007596|4035146 said:
...The diamond he has quoted me to use is 2116598860, a D colour SI1. ...

there are a few things im worries about
-many jewelers have said to get excellent cut and symmetry with pear diamonds and to have fluroscence at none, this one sits at very good for both symmetry and cut and faint for fluroscence. From your opinions is this ok and considering its a D colour would that give it enough sparkle?
-another jeweler mentioned its important to have thick proportions, is this correct and something important?
- are the inlcusions on this diamond a worry? It seems there are quite a few and i cant see an actual photo showing the inclusions (where can i find an actual picture of the diamond if possible)??

thanks so much for your help!!!
Hey mate - I'm in the trade and forum rules don't allow me to comment on specific stones - however in general...
- Fancy shapes (like pears) do not have a 'Cut' grade like rounds do - so if someone is telling you differently, it is based on their opinion and should be taken as such
- Fancy shapes do have Polish & Symmetry grades - (you can do a quick google search for these terms) - 'very good' is very good most of the time, but if you can get excellent, even better.
- D is the colour...or more accurately...the lack of colour - it is a completely colourless diamond...you won't get a better colour. While this will influence the overall look of the stone, it's more about the quality of how the diamond is cut that makes it 'sparkle'.
- Fluorescence normally isn't an issue from 'none' to 'medium' - and even 'strong' & 'very strong' will generally not affect the day-to-day appearance of the stone - - you just have to determine this on a stone by stone basis...but it's not worth ruling out fluoro off hand.
- You don't want 'thick' proportions - you want proportions that give the stone a balanced look while not compromising the durability - - for example, you don't want a girdle that is too thin as this may lead to chipping - - and you don't want a girdle that is too thick as this adds unnecessary extra weight that won't contribute to the beauty of the stone...but will likely contribute to the cost ;-)
- Regarding the inclusions - as long as it's not a major inclusion directly under the tip, you shouldn't have to worry about durability - but all you have to do is either see a pic or get the vendor to tell you. SI1s are a bit hit/miss for visibility - many are eye clean, but again it will depend on the type/number/position/etc of the inclusion(s).
- Again, I'm not allowed to speak about this stone in particular...but hypothetically...if it's on the open market there are likely to be images/videos that you could get should you ask...hypothetically of course... ;-)
You might want to re-evaluate your diamond information 'sources'...they don't seem to be doing you any favours :wall:
Hope this helps
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
Here are some D SI1 stones just to show you. See the black reflections in some of them? We call that a bow tie and try to avoid that if possible. Most of the stones have it, some worse than others. That is one reason you cannot choose a stone without images. These you can also make turn around in video so you can see the inclusions from all angles. Again, I don't recommend pears unless that is what she has expressed is her first choice.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/?CaratFrom=1.11&CaratTo=1.30&Color=D&Clarity=SI1&PriceFrom=&PriceTo=&ViewsOptions=Images

I'd strongly recommend searching D-F and include VS2 as well:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/?CaratFrom=1.11&CaratTo=1.30&Color=F,E,D&Clarity=SI1,VS2&PriceFrom=&PriceTo=&ViewsOptions=Images
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
Thank you all so much for the help and the words of advice, I really do appreciate it.
I am quite anal and want to buy her the best I can possibly get so the process has been an exciting and frustrating one at the same time - welcome to the diamond world I guess.

I haven't gone ahead and bought the diamond so that's a plus and I'm currently in the process of getting a magnified image of the diamond to post on here and get your opinions. She has requested a pear shape with single halo around the diamond and I think is more interested in the bling and size than the fundamentals behind it (most woman are probably like that lol).

I'll post the photo up soon and hopefully you guys can help me out, its just a pretty good deal for the size and setting as opposed to anyone here in Melb.

Thanks again, you've all been a great help!
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
alexaqq|1464046832|4035455 said:
Thank you all so much for the help and the words of advice, I really do appreciate it.
I am quite anal and want to buy her the best I can possibly get so the process has been an exciting and frustrating one at the same time - welcome to the diamond world I guess.

I haven't gone ahead and bought the diamond so that's a plus and I'm currently in the process of getting a magnified image of the diamond to post on here and get your opinions. She has requested a pear shape with single halo around the diamond and I think is more interested in the bling and size than the fundamentals behind it (most woman are probably like that lol).

I'll post the photo up soon and hopefully you guys can help me out, its just a pretty good deal for the size and setting as opposed to anyone here in Melb.

Thanks again, you've all been a great help!

So no magnified image can be provided. Allow me to discuss the back story though. This diamond and setting comes from a recommended jeweler from Hong Kong who a wealthy family i know purchase jewelry from them regularly. He is considerably cheaper, about 4 grand cheaper than any other jeweler i have found in melbourne around 33% cheaper.

Its a risk i know but considering he has done previous work and the specs of the diamond, not suggesting you all have a look, but maybe you might ;-) what should i do!!! ahhhh!! My lady isnt a gemologist and would probably like the colour size and polish, so the confusion is killing me!! so mcuh to weigh up and conisder.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
Alex, I do understand that most people aren't educated on diamond quality, but pears can be really good or really bad. If you were buying a modern round brilliant, we could give you numbers that would keep you in relatively safe territory. But with fancy shapes, it is just not possible to buy a diamond without images. The fact that the jeweler cannot access a magnified picture is a big red flag as far as I am concerned. Not to mention, never, ever buy a diamond that doesn't have a solid return policy. What about US prices? We have several regular members here from Australia who buy US diamonds. What is the price of the stone in US dollars?

Would you buy a new car if you couldn't know what the style looks like? I'm guessing that answer is no. Same goes for diamonds!
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
diamondseeker2006|1464057536|4035541 said:
Alex, I do understand that most people aren't educated on diamond quality, but pears can be really good or really bad. If you were buying a modern round brilliant, we could give you numbers that would keep you in relatively safe territory. But with fancy shapes, it is just not possible to buy a diamond without images. The fact that the jeweler cannot access a magnified picture is a big red flag as far as I am concerned. Not to mention, never, ever buy a diamond that doesn't have a solid return policy. What about US prices? We have several regular members here from Australia who buy US diamonds. What is the price of the stone in US dollars?

Would you buy a new car if you couldn't know what the style looks like? I'm guessing that answer is no. Same goes for diamonds!

I understand, thanks seeker2006!

I'm hoping I might be ok due to the fact that these people have been shopping with this particular jeweler for 3 generations and have not had a problem. The jeweler during correspondence seems to suggest that its a good diamond and he only uses good quality diamonds. The particular pear is within a ratio of 1.4 - 1.7 which he seems to think will make it sparkle more and does not have a bowtie on it???

I guess the question has more to do with whether i can trust the jeweler and what he says or not...
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
Hi guys,

I managed to get a few photos, what do you guys think?
I can't see much of a bow tie and it looks stunning to me!

diamon_1.png

diam_2.png

diamon_3.png
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
It's got a bowtie but it looks like it blends.

You need a 15 day no questions asked full refund return policy so you can evaluate it, unset.

Get it in writing.
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
Gypsy|1464068427|4035617 said:
It's got a bowtie but it looks like it blends.

You need a 15 day no questions asked full refund return policy so you can evaluate it, unset.

Get it in writing.

What if I'm buying in a hand made custom setting?

I understand that you're all really well educated and passionate about diamonds and i appreciate that and your help. However for a girl who is looking at it at its most basic would I be wrong in assuming that something like the above diamond in an appropriate setting would be fine?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I'm sorry. I don't understand putting less thought into an engagement ring than you would into a car purchase.

You do what you want.
 

acaw2015

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
795
alexaqq|1464070742|4035641 said:
Gypsy|1464068427|4035617 said:
It's got a bowtie but it looks like it blends.

You need a 15 day no questions asked full refund return policy so you can evaluate it, unset.

Get it in writing.

What if I'm buying in a hand made custom setting?

I understand that you're all really well educated and passionate about diamonds and i appreciate that and your help. However for a girl who is looking at it at its most basic would I be wrong in assuming that something like the above diamond in an appropriate setting would be fine?

Are you asking if a girl who doesnt see many diamonds would see the difference between a well cut diamond and a diamond that is not so well cut? Maybe she wont notice now, but when she compares it to other diamonds she will. I think that is the wrong question to ask though. It doesnt take an expert to understand that buying *anything* sight unseen is a gamble, especially when you cant return it. It seems to me like you are very keen on using this vendor no matter what you get and that really doesnt make any sense. Remember, vendors arent your friends, they may seem friendly but in the end of the day they want to make money.

Hope this helps...

/aca :wavey:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
I have seen wealthy people with unimpressive quality diamonds, so just because wealthy people shop there means nothing at all. Most people know nothing about diamond cut, sadly. I am glad he was willing to supply you with pictures, because otherwise, I would have absolutely said no way.

I don't think the diamond looks bad from the pictures. I think it is okay. I would never recommend someone buying without having multiple stones to choose from so you can get the best cut one, but as Gypsy said, you seem to have already made up your mind. I hope you compared his price with the prices on James Allen to be sure his price is less than those.
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
diamondseeker2006|1464102331|4035754 said:
I have seen wealthy people with unimpressive quality diamonds, so just because wealthy people shop there means nothing at all. Most people know nothing about diamond cut, sadly. I am glad he was willing to supply you with pictures, because otherwise, I would have absolutely said no way.

I don't think the diamond looks bad from the pictures. I think it is okay. I would never recommend someone buying without having multiple stones to choose from so you can get the best cut one, but as Gypsy said, you seem to have already made up your mind. I hope you compared his price with the prices on James Allen to be sure his price is less than those.
This is what I'm hoping the jeweler has done i guess, chose the best cut one to stock in his store and work with.

I understand all of the concerns and everything else but after so much research and looking at that photo it doesn't seem like a bad diamond to me. The family has been shopping there for almost 3 generations also and has never had an issue. I mean how bad could a D colour, Si1, VG VG pear shape be and also considering those photos, the nature of the jeweler who comes highly recommended and who only deal in quality stones (as reported i cannot be sure), the price that im paying - almost 40% cheaper than anywhere else I've looked, im thinking its not a bad deal.

I'm not a stupid consumer and after months of research think i have developed quite a good understanding but to be honest from the top shelf shops I've vistited to the more smaller shops the difference in diamonds hasn't been that obvious, the price however has been.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,379
I think the prosumers here are trying to explain that a VG, D, SI can be either great or horrible, and the only way to be sure is to see lots of images and preferably ASET, etc.

I hate to say it, but shopping preferences of wealthy friends is entirely irrelevant when it comes to whether you are getting a good diamond. It's much safer to buy from a company that's well known on these boards who will provide the info you need in order to be sure about what you are buying. Also, many times deals that seem 'too good to be true" are just that. Why would the jeweler be selling something for 40% less? More likely it might not be worth that you think it is.

I'm not trying to be harsh, and youve already made your choice. I'm just trying to explain why people here seem skeptical and would encourage you to explore alternatives.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the proportions and the faceting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut.
With pears all that matters is the faceting and the performance of the stone. By performance we mean: how well it reflects light because this determines how bright the stone is, how much it sparkles, and how lively it is. And how big it looks. A well performing diamond will always look larger than a diamond with compromised performance, even if the compromised stone has actually larger dimensions. With pears what you need to determine this is images of the stone. Preferably a video. And finally an ASET scope image.

So what is an ASET scope image and why is it important? http://highperformancediamonds.com/education/performance-tutorial/

Basically an ASET tells you how well the diamond you are evaluating reflects light and where the light is coming from. This matters. .


So that's what you need to focus on.

Your lady will be able to tell if her diamond is dead. And most pears are. So, you do what you want, but if you want to spend money on something that is really worth the money you are spending, you may want to do more research and put in more effort than you are.

Most Asian vendors focus on color and clarity. Not cut. And being wealthy is not synonymous to being wise or educated about jewelry.
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
10,039
Just because a jeweler services rich people doesn't mean the "rich" people know a good diamond v an ok one. People can only judge based on what they have seen and can compare things to. Yes, I have relatives from HK who but expensive diamonds but I wouldn't shop where they shop for big stones only because they did. And they are mostly concerned with clarity and color, not cut which is what you need to focus on with a pear. Get it out of your head. Rich people does not equal beautiful diamonds. The pear you posted proves exactly that.

Your pic shows a pretty decently sized bow tie. Sorry there it is. Gypsy and DIAMONDSEEKER have found much nicer pears without this bow tie. Just because your girl isn't experienced doesnt mean you should capitalize on that and get her an ok one. You said yourself you are anal. If you decide to go for this one, do it knowing you're getting "ok". And that is fine if that is your decision. No one else here will tell you it's great.
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
LLJsmom|1464136036|4035949 said:
Just because a jeweler services rich people doesn't mean the "rich" people know a good diamond v an ok one. People can only judge based on what they have seen and can compare things to. Yes, I have relatives from HK who but expensive diamonds but I wouldn't shop where they shop for big stones only because they did. And they are mostly concerned with clarity and color, not cut which is what you need to focus on with a pear. Get it out of your head. Rich people does not equal beautiful diamonds. The pear you posted proves exactly that.

Your pic shows a pretty decently sized bow tie. Sorry there it is. Gypsy and DIAMONDSEEKER have found much nicer pears without this bow tie. Just because your girl isn't experienced doesnt mean you should capitalize on that and get her an ok one. You said yourself you are anal. If you decide to go for this one, do it knowing you're getting "ok". And that is fine if that is your decision. No one else here will tell you it's great.

This is what i was looking for, an honest appraisal of the photos i supplied and the back story.

I get the whole thing that rich people don't necessarily know about diamonds, I really get that. The main reason i came here was to get your opinons based on the story and the photos of whether you would go ahead and buy the diamond. I think the overwhelming response is a big NO so i guess i should re-evaluate.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,284
I don't hate it. But I am concerned at why the price would be 40% lower than other sources. The page of stones I pulled up were $5000-7500 USD. You are saying that the price on the one you are considering is 40% less than that range?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Let's start here.

What is your budget (give us your stone budget in USD, EXCLUDING taxes, VAT, whatever) for a diamond. We'll find you a G Si1 or better diamond for that budget and we'll go from there.

It doesn't hurt for you to see what we can find you. And then you look at that, and compare it, and make an educated choice. That's all we want to help you do: 1) help you get the best value for your budget, 2) help you make a knowledgeable decision based on as much information as possible.

:wavey:
 

alexaqq

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
9
diamondseeker2006|1464150389|4036046 said:
I don't hate it. But I am concerned at why the price would be 40% lower than other sources. The page of stones I pulled up were $5000-7500 USD. You are saying that the price on the one you are considering is 40% less than that range?
40% less in a setting and ready to go with 18k white gold, halo and diamonds on the band.

So, majority of the jewelers I've seen in melbourne have quoted me between 14000-15000AUD for a 1c, e-f colour, vs1-si1, from exc to VG sym and polish set in a halo with diamonds on the band.

This particular jeweler has quoted me 10,100AUD depending on exchange rate of course for the 1.13c, D colour, VG VG, si1 with halo and diamonds on the band.

Let's start here.

What is your budget (give us your stone budget in USD, EXCLUDING taxes, VAT, whatever) for a diamond. We'll find you a G Si1 or better diamond for that budget and we'll go from there.

It doesn't hurt for you to see what we can find you. And then you look at that, and compare it, and make an educated choice. That's all we want to help you do: 1) help you get the best value for your budget, 2) help you make a knowledgeable decision based on as much information as possible.
my budget in usd for the diamond set with a halo and diamonds on the band is approx 8000usd but willing to consider a little more if needed.

thanks for your help and patience
 
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