Help with Ideal Scope and decision

[Kaili]

First, I want to say thank you to everyone on this board. I have learned so much, and I am thankful to you all!

Second, I am posting for the first time because I would love some help reading this Ideal Scope image and would appreciate your oppinions on this diamond. The diamond is an SI1 which makes me nervous, but the jeweler has assured me that it is eye clean.

The specs on the diamond are:
GIA, .91, E, SI1, depth 62.2, table 55, crown angle 34.7, pavillion angle 40.7, culet none, fl negligable, girdle med, polish and sym are both vg. 6.17-6.20 x 3.87

 

[quaeritur]

Looks very nice to me!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Yes, its going to be beautiful.

 

[Kaili]

Thank you so much for your help. Buying online seems to be a great way to find a great diamond, but I'm still learning what to look for. I appreciate your help!

 

[jesrush]

It looks promising, but personally I'd want to know the *variances* behind those averages. 34.7 crown -- ok, but does it vary from 33.1 to 35.9 and 34.7 is just a meaningless middle point??

-J

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If you have such a symmetrical image you need not know what the deviations are between angles, and if the angles do deviate - then it is of no matter because the current system of reporting those deviations is flawed.
The image confirms the stone is optically symmetrical.

 

[Lynn B]

----------------
On 9/15/2004 12:11:45 AM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

If you have such a symmetrical image you need not know what the deviations are between angles, and if the angles do deviate - then it is of no matter because the current system of reporting those deviations is flawed.
The image confirms the stone is optically symmetrical.----------------

Garry,
I have an AGS-0, H & A stone, and have often wondered what the deviations of the pav angles might be (the cert says 40.9). I have wondered if some of the angles may be > 41. The stone does have excellent symmetry - great H & A pattern, and scored a 9.8 on the Isee2.

So, are you saying that the angles probably don't deviate -- at least not enough to be significant? (even so close to "41"?)

Many thanks,
Lynn

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

It is not a simple thing to understand, but you can read about it here.

We use the table as a reference plain when we scan a diamond. But the axis through the pavilion is far more important.

In the second stone example with reasonable H&A's the pavilion angles vary by a whopping 1.2 degrees.

 

[Lynn B]

Garry,
Thanks for the link. Wow... technical stuff -- some of it is over my head! Very interesting, though. Thanks for sharing.

Lynn

 

[Blueman33]

Kali,

You have actually helped ME!

I am ready to buy a diamond, but am stuck in hurricane related mess:

GIA
1.16
I
VS2
D: 61.8
T: 56
Pol:EX
Sym: VG
6.74-6.79x4.18
Ultra Ideal Cut
$5000


Everything scores 'ideal' except for the VG on sym. This vendor doesn't use h & a viewer or brilliance scope, but uses the sarin report, which he says in an industry standard, to assess cut quality. Of course i'm welcomed to put it to any test I like as he states it's a top cut diamond, and of course there's a no-questions-asked return policy.

SARIN INFO
Overall Sarin Cut Grade: 0
Crown: 34.3 degrees 15.2% 0
Pavillion 41.2 degrees 43.5% 0
Table 3.75mm 55.3% 0
Culet 1.0% 0
Girdle 1.5% 1.0% 1.9% 0

Some had told me that if the sym was VG, not EX, it was not a super ideal diamond with h & a. Others have posted that even with a microscope I would not be able to differentiate a VG from EX in symmetry. Most people seem to be of the opinion that the VG on the above diamond is not a problem and that side by side with an EX under a scope or loup i'd never see the difference.

Looking at your beautiful diamond, the VG doesn't worry me much anymore!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Test it with an ideal-scope - that pavilion is getting a wee bit on the deep side for that crown angle.
Run it on HCA.

 

[Blueman33]

Ok, educate the newby.

What is the HCA?

I know what the ideal scope is. Though I don't have one, and probably wouldn't be experienced enough to know what a rock should look like.

It also appears to me that the ideal scope image above shows the arrows, so why get a seperate viewer (h & A viewer) if you can just use ideal scope?

And what effect would a 'wee bit steep' measurement have to my eye?

Is this an important thing?

Thank you all for your help!

 

[Mara]

HCA=Holloway Cut Advisor


Click on link that says 'Cut Advisor' at top of screen to see it, read about it, try it, etc.


It basically is used as a tool as is the idealscope and sarin reports to help you figure out if a stone should perform well, especially helpful for virtual purchases where you may not see til you buy. Don't use it as gospel, but it can be very handy when used in conjunction with other tools.




IdealScope at www.ideal-scope.com.


They are $30 and highly valuable for determining a well-cut stone and it's light return. Worth the investment if you are dropping a few thousand or more on a diamond! Many online vendors have IS images of the stone so you can see virtually what light return will be like. Offline it helps to take it into stores and look at the stones to see light return. Pink and red are light return, white is leakage.




IS images show arrows if they exist, yes, so in reality no you don't have to get an H&A viewer or get an H&A image if you can see crisp and tight arrows with the IS as well as light return...but if you CAN get H&A images from a vendor, it is just another piece of the puzzle to ensure a virtual stone is going to be spot-on. However if you are not buying a true H&A stone , but rather something like an 'ideal' or AGS0 and it's got nice arrows, it will show you that symmetry is quite nice without an H&A image which most vendors will not give you unless its a true H&A. So it's kind of a way around that to see the arrows as well.

 

[hoorray]

"A wee bit steep" means that there may be light leakage in the table, leading to a dark center rather than a sparkly center. It's not a good thing. An ideal scope image will tell you if this is true, and the HCA will help you predict it, but is not a picture of the real stone like the ideal scope is.

 

[Blueman33]

The HCA is a great tool. I am sure it is better than me looking in an ideal scope.

Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.1 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

So i'm not sure if I want to spend $5000+ on 'very good' and want to hold out for 'excellent', or if to the naked eye you can't tell them apart.

Any advice?

This is a great tool, kudos to Holloway and Pricescope members!

 

[alexah]

i suggested this stone on your first post... i still like it for the money

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

thanks for the back pat, but an ideal-scope is pretty easy to use and will tell you more about the diamond.
Use HCA to narrow the field

 

[Kaili]

Blueman,
I'm so glad I could help, since soooo many people here have helped me here!

 

[Mara]

Don't know much else about the diamond, blueman, but I would personally not continue to consider a 3.1 HCA stone unless there was something extremely special about it in another area. It's too easy to find stones that are under 2.0 with great specs and nice images. Unless the deal is simply spectacular in terms of price and other requirements (aka you are getting a great deal on a D VVS2 and the cut is off but you need that D VVS2 on a tight budget) personally, I would keep looking. There are alot of stones out there that are going to be beautiful with great numbers, images and HCA scores, try for all plusses first. My two cents.

 

[Blueman33]

Well, it seems to be priced right, $4890 cash or %5105 credit card, but you are RIGHT!

I'm not saving a few hundred $ or getting a few more carat points for a 3.1 on the Holloway Scale. 2.1, sure I could live with that.

So I'm still looking and definitely considering the 1.131 suggested from WF.

NOTICE SOMETHING? The box for AGS 0 on the Holloway Colored Map has an upper right corner that's in the 5 range (or Good). An AGS 'ideal cut' offers 'good' performance in some instances. Egad.

Thanks for everyone's help. I've got a confusing spreadsheet of Diamonds from several vendors. I've spent $2000 worth of time, I would have been just as well off to just put the extra cash into my purchase, but I must say i'm totally intriqued by the education and have become quite fasinated by this purchase decision and stones in general.

I continue to search!

 

[valeria101]

I didn't see you have posted on this thread the same stone I did on the other! Below is the signature photo of a worthy alternative, IMO. (LINK). Just good if perfection of color, clarity and cut is key.

Keep us posted on your choice

Either stone should be just exquisite!