Help with EGL diamond

[wojo]

Hi everyone-

As you can see this is my first post, I have been reading the forum for awhile and everyone seems to be very helpful so here goes:

I am looking for a round brilliant approx 1 ct., totally eye clean. I have found a few EGL stones (I have been reading some posts on EGL and it does make me somewhat nervous). I am looking to spend around 4k but I am willing to go up if the stone is what I am looking for. Here is one EGL I found:

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=53787613&src=builder

1.11 ct
H color
VS2
Ex Sym
VG Polish
61.2% depth
58% table
14% crown
43% pavilion
cutlet: none

It scores a 1 on the HCA. My question is will the H from an EGL look colorless in a white gold setting? Is it worth trying to find a GIA stone if it means giving up a grade on clarity and one on color? Would an I color be that much better than an H from EGL? Here is a GIA stone that is similar, I color, SI1 clarity, 1.01, scores a 1.6 on HCA:

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=51198928&src=builder

Thank you for any help or advice you can give me!

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 12/8/2008 2:59:08 PM
Author:wojo
[snip]

It scores a 1 on the HCA. My question is will the H from an EGL look colorless in a white gold setting? Is it worth trying to find a GIA stone if it means giving up a grade on clarity and one on color? Would an I color be that much better than an H from EGL? Here is a GIA stone that is similar, I color, SI1 clarity, 1.01, scores a 1.6 on HCA:

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=51198928&src=builder

Thank you for any help or advice you can give me!

This may be a slightly cynical view of things, but...

1. The dealer who paid for the grading report to be done had his (her) interests in mind, not yours. The cost of having the stone graded by GIA or EGL is about the same, and negligible compared to the stone's value.
2. There is a big difference in price between H and J, and equally between VS2 and SI1.
3. The price per carat of the two stones you listed is slightly higher for the GIA graded stone.

Putting 1, 2 and 3 together, what you probably have there is a stone that GIA would have graded J and SI1.

Does this make it a bad stone? Not by any means. Is it well cut? Almost certainly. Will it look white face up and set in WG? Most probably yes. Is it eye-clean? Who knows? Possibly.

Is it the bargain of the century? No way, but it's fairly priced.

Same observations apply to the GIA stone, except that here you reduce the uncertainty on what colour and clarity grade the stone deserves.

ETA: added last paragraph, and consideration on price.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/8/2008 3:13:46 PM
Author: oldmancoyote

Date: 12/8/2008 2:59:08 PM

Author:wojo

[snip]


It scores a 1 on the HCA. My question is will the H from an EGL look colorless in a white gold setting? Is it worth trying to find a GIA stone if it means giving up a grade on clarity and one on color? Would an I color be that much better than an H from EGL? Here is a GIA stone that is similar, I color, SI1 clarity, 1.01, scores a 1.6 on HCA:


http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=51198928&src=builder


Thank you for any help or advice you can give me!

This may be a slightly cynical view of things, but...


1. The dealer who paid for the grading report to be done had his (her) interests in mind, not yours. The cost of having the stone graded by GIA or EGL is about the same, and negligible compared to the stone''s value.

2. There is a big difference in price between H and J, and equally between VS2 and SI1.

3. The price per carat of the two stones you listed is slightly higher for the GIA graded stone.


Putting 1, 2 and 3 together, what you probably have there is a stone that GIA would have graded J and SI1.


Does this make it a bad stone? Not by any means. Will it look white face up and set in WG? Probably yes. Does it make the bargain of the century? No way.

Might be cynical, but it''s a scenario we''ve seen played out quite often here...

 

[wojo]

So all things being equal a diamond that is rates I in color and SI1 in clarity by GIA should be looked more favorably upon than one ranked H and VS2 by EGL? I agree on the price per carat oldmancoyote, it seems to be just a small amount higher for the GIA I SI1''s than the EGL H VS2.

In terms of GIA''s SI1 rating, I know it varies but from experience are those clean? I previously had an SI1 from EGL USA and it had a pretty obvious inclusion in the table. Thanks again for all of your help, you guys are great on here....

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 12/8/2008 3:49:59 PM
Author: wojo
So all things being equal a diamond that is rates I in color and SI1 in clarity by GIA should be looked more favorably upon than one ranked H and VS2 by EGL? I agree on the price per carat oldmancoyote, it seems to be just a small amount higher for the GIA I SI1's than the EGL H VS2.

In terms of GIA's SI1 rating, I know it varies but from experience are those clean? I previously had an SI1 from EGL USA and it had a pretty obvious inclusion in the table. Thanks again for all of your help, you guys are great on here....

Nononono. The point I'm making is that with GIA (and AGS) you know where you stand on clarity and colour. With EGL, it's more likely that the lab is lenient, but there isn't a formula. Sometimes they get it right, often they don't. I'm trusting the fact that it's a fairly common diamond "spec", and the market is pricing it at 9% discount on a GIA I-SI1...

I think to decide you need to see them or to have someone you trust (dealer? appraiser? friend? astrologer?) see them. Same applies to eye-clean SI1, though I'd rule out the astrologer for that particular question - sorry, Neil.

 

[LGK]

Date: 12/8/2008 3:49:59 PM
Author: wojo
I previously had an SI1 from EGL USA and it had a pretty obvious inclusion in the table. Thanks again for all of your help, you guys are great on here....

And perhaps it wasn''t what GIA would call an SI1...

An SI1 graded by GIA is *probably* eye clean. There are some that aren''t. Also your own eye sight comes into play. Some folks, often those who are nearsighted (like me), have freakisly good closeup vision, and diamonds that others consider eyeclean won''t be to those folks. Definitely no way to predict this for you.

You just have to know what you''re paying for. If you''re really interested in this EGL stone, you probably should get an independant appraiser to look at it and confirm you''re getting what you paid for, color & clarity wise. EGL USA is supposed to be a bit better than the Israel certs. There''s simply often a reason a stone has an EGL cert rather than a GIA one, i.e., the dealer felt it would sell better with an inflated cert on it. The price is generally your clue as to whether a cert is accurate or not- the price will usually be in line with whatever the color & clarity truly is. There''s nothing inherently better about GIA diamonds- you just have to do your due diligence on EGL ones is all... however, it''s *easier* to go with a GIA or AGS graded diamond, because the cert is probably accurate.

 

[wojo]

Thanks everybody. I wish the vendors had more of these diamonds in stock, it seems that most of them are shipped from the cutters and not from their location. Makes it hard to get first hand opinions! I guess the best course of action is to have these appraised on my own and make a decision from there.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Hmm...two choices:

1. Pay for a few shipments (or if your credit card limit can take it, get a few stones in the same shipment - better since you can compare)...
2. Pick a dealer (like ERD or WF) that carries many stones or that will call them in for a first inspection and tell you what they think. Just remember they are there to sell.

 

[wojo]

I have been dealing with Bob from Whiteflash also. Will they bring in a diamond and tell me what they think of the color and clarity grades?

 

[oldmancoyote]

They will. As far as I know, they don''t drop-ship, but inspect all diamonds prior to delivery to the customer.

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/?a=403&z=6