shape
carat
color
clarity

Help with a red spinel

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by Atwater, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    I am considering a red spinel. The posted pictures look nice to me. The description says the very best color of a Burmese red spinel, highly saturated, super strong fluorescence. There’s no dark-field to be observed in this stone.

    Indoor indirect natural light, no artificial light:
    red_spinel_indoor_indirect_light.JPG

    red_spinel_indoor_indirect_light2.JPG

    The description says strong fluorescence:
    WeChat Image_20190426211808.jpg

    I crop the following two pictures from an indoor video and an outdoor video.
    outdoor:
    WeChat Image_20190426211831.jpg

    Indoor:
    WeChat Image_20190426211817.jpg

    I am buying a red spinel for the first time. Your opinions will be much appreciated!
     
    Gloria27 and ChaiK like this.
    


    


  2. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    7,734
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Apr 27, 2019
    Is there a certificate? How much is the vendor asking?
     
  3. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    The vendor says it looks similar to a Jedi; it won't black out in various light conditions; the clarity is quite good for this color, some tiny inclusions and fissures, close to eye clean.

    I saw something at the 11~12 o'clock location in this picture. I asked about it; no reply yet.
    red_spinel_indoor_indirect_light2.JPG
     
  4. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    Oh, I actually have not asked about the certificate yet. The vendor asks for $1300/ct, so this is $1600.
     
    


    


  5. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    I got reply about that "something" at 11~12 o'clock. The vendor says it is the refraction or reflection from the silver cross. The inclusion can hardly be seen without a loupe.
     
  6. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    No, there is no lab report or certificate. The vendor says it is returnable anytime if found synthetic or treated.
     
  7. pwsg07
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    554
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    by pwsg07 » Apr 27, 2019
    The indoor photo looks good to me. The price seems fair
     
    VividRed likes this.
  8. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    The two indoor pictures really got me; however, the lighting is bright although they are labelled as indoor natural light. The stone looks quite alive in the outdoor video as well, which I really like. But it looks muted and not so lively in the indoor video. Is this normal? What about the so-called glow? Am I unrealistic to expect a red spinel to have glow in indoor shaded lighting?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  9. pwsg07
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    554
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    by pwsg07 » Apr 27, 2019
    Indoor lighting is supposed to be the worst lighting to observe a gemstone. If the stone looks good indoor, I think the stone will look good. Also check the stone under different kinds of light bulbs. Red garnets usually look brown under fluorescent light. To take an accurate photo of the colour indoor using iPhone, I need strong light and I don't know why.

    I am not sure about the glow. When the uv rays of the sunlight hits the chromium in the spinel, the spinel will fluoresce. I think this is the glow they are talking about.
     
  10. voce
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,596
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    by voce » Apr 27, 2019
    It looks a little sleepy indoors, which makes me think there might be clarity enhancements. Seems a risk to buy without a lab report, but it is a beautiful stone. The question I ask myself is, am I going to regret it if I don't give this stone a chance and don't find a similar one later? Make sure to get a lab report if that's important to you.
     
    Lykame and T L like this.
    


    


  11. MrsKMB
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    439
    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    by MrsKMB » Apr 27, 2019
    Can you share the video? The photo on the crown bothers me for some reason.
     
    chrono likes this.
  12. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    I have no idea about spinel clarity enhancement. If I buy it, I most likely will get a lab report by myself. The vendor did say it is returnable anytime if found synthetic or treated. I will return it if it turns out to be synthetic or treated.
    I do like the color, but it is smaller than I prefer. I also asked if the vendor has something similar about 2ct and was told this (1ct+) is already considered a relative big size for this color.
     
    voce likes this.
  13. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    Instagram does not allow me to save it. I tried screen recording, but this website does not allow me to upload the video: "the uploaded file does not have the allowed extension". The screen recording generates a .mp4 file.
     
  14. chrono
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    36,884
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    by chrono » Apr 27, 2019
    No restocking fee? How easy is it to send the stone back?
     
  15. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    It is returnable anytime if the stone turns out to be synthetic or treated as specified in the lab report, the vendor will provide full refund and pay for the shipping (did not specify if it includes return shipping though).
    Otherwise it is returnable in 24hrs, the vendor will return the money excluding the shipping cost and service fee if charged by a third party (e.g., paypal).

    The vendor is located in Shanghai, China.
     
    lovedogs likes this.
    


    


  16. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    7,734
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Apr 27, 2019
    I think this is the same vendor I got my spinel from. If so, I had no issues (though I decided I didn't want to send for a lab report bc the setting I wanted was also made by a company in China , so it was easier to just get it set). The vendor took PayPal, shipped fast, and was very nice.
     
    voce likes this.
  17. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    @lovedogs : Yes, it is the same vendor; I actually found this vendor from your post regarding your search for a red spinel (thank you!). Will you share your opinion on this spinel? How does it compare to yours? How truthful is this vendor's picture/video?
     
    lovedogs and voce like this.
  18. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    Any suggestions from those who can upload videos?
     
  19. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    7,734
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Apr 27, 2019
    I thought the vendor descriptions were really honest. I don't have a uv light so can't exactly check flour, but I definitely see glow in sunlight and love my stone. No complaints at all. Mine definitely isn't eye clean, but I specified that color was more important than clarity so it doesn't bother me at all.
     
  20. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    7,734
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Apr 27, 2019
    Also, I would ask the vendor if it's a "Jedi" spinel or not. According to him or her, the Jedi label usually means more chromium/glow (at least in how this vendor describes the stones).
     
  21. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    Thank you! I really hope the color I see in the images is the color I will get. How does yours look in indoor shaded light? It is also a bit muted or sleepy?

    The vendor says "I am not claiming it a Jedi spinel, it's just simply a very top red." So it is not a Jedi. The vendor also says it looks similar to a Jedi; it won't black out in various light conditions, has super strong fluorescence. I suppose not a Jedi means it is less vivid as a Jedi would?
    Also, is $1300/ct still reasonable for a not Jedi red spinel?
     
  22. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    7,734
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    by lovedogs » Apr 27, 2019
    The term "jedi" is a weird one bc it means different things to different people. I think the one I got was $1500/ct? Maybe? Or $1600? Not 100% sure. But to me, I was ok paying extra for the extra pop of color. But obviously that's totally up to you/the buyer. Does the vendor have any they would consider "Jedi"?
     
    voce likes this.
  23. voce
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,596
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    by voce » Apr 27, 2019
    I think most Jedi spinels that are red/pink were mined in Namya or Man Sin, and the visually purer red ones come from other mines? The mines are all located near Mogok, where rubies were mined, and it can get pretty confusing.

    I wouldn't worry about trade name labels like that, just whether it is a natural gem and what treatments it has had.
     
    lovedogs likes this.
  24. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    I did not specifically ask it he/she any other Jedi, but I did ask if there are close to 2ct ones or if he/she can find a smaller pair (pear shape preferred) that I can use with this one. The answers are no to both. He/she thinks it is very hard to find neither with this color.
     
  25. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    Does the pictures suggest treatment to you? @MrsKMB also mentioned the photo with the crown bothers her for some reason.
     
  26. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    I am ok with the price if the color is really that in the photos, of course assuming natural with no treatment. If I buy it, probably it will be the only red spinel for me. So I do prefer a larger (maybe 2ct) one, but will $3000 even be enough for a 2ct one in such color?
     
  27. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    21,844
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Apr 27, 2019
    I think it has nice color, but my concern would be the clarity and any fillers, surface fractures, etc... A lab report may not talk about clarity enhancement, especially a smaller Asian lab. If you do decide to get it, never ever ever put it in an ultrasonic cleaner, and tell your jeweler the same.
     
    lovedogs and chrono like this.
  28. Atwater
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    268
    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    by Atwater » Apr 27, 2019
    Will AGL brief specifies clarity enhancement if there is any? Or it has to be a prestige report?
     
  29. voce
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,596
    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    by voce » Apr 27, 2019
    I think what could be "bothersome" is the lack of precise flashes returned through the table of the stone. The first photo of the gem in the gem holder, you could think it's blurry due to the focus of the camera not being set right. However, in the crown picture, everything around the spinel is in focus, but the spinel itself, looks a little silky/sleepy instead of flashy in a way where you can see the facets distinctly.

    In my own limited experience, when rubies look like that, it is because they have inclusions. This doesn't necessarily mean that it's clarity enhanced, but often times inclusions like fractures will get filled in to make the gems more stable and hide the visual impact of inclusions.

    And re: AGL brief, yes, the AGL brief should tell you if they detect a clarity enhancement, and they will often times say something about the stability of the clarity enhancement i.e. excellent or otherwise.
     
    lovedogs likes this.
  30. T L
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    21,844
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2008
    by T L » Apr 27, 2019
    I believe so, but I would check with them, as it’s been a long time since I obtained my last AGL brief. The prestige report would for sure, and it would also probably tell you the stability and type of filler. I don’t know if that’s worth it. The gem brief should suffice. Just be careful with cleaning it if it is enhanced, no ammonia based cleaners, ultrasound, or steam.
     
    lovedogs likes this.

Share This Page