Help with a new ring, not US based

[DiamondBaby]

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for a new 5 stone ring with a platinum band, each stone .40ct, so 2 ct in total. Very few options where I live, so i'm looking to get one made in the US and shipped. I have been in contact with IDJ, I saw one of their rings here that I fell in love with, and it was pretty much the spec that I was looking for, so it was good to see images of it. One of my friends was talking about hers and it was Brian Gavin. They have some beautiful rings. I will have to pay VAT and excise duty on them no matter what I bring in, but just looking for some help as to who to go with, as I have no experience with either.
Thanks a Mil!!

 

[Austina]

You’re in the UK? One of my friends was robbed and had all her jewellery stolen. She also wanted a 5 stone ring to replace her stolen one. Based on recommendations here (not personal experience) I suggested she check out IDJ. She did, and ended up ordering 2 x 5 stone rings as replacements. She’s absolutely thrilled to bits with her purchases, and said she got both for what she’d been quoted here for one.

I had a ring made in the US last year, and when I brought it home, I was charged 20% VAT at the airport. They gave us a good exchange rate on the purchase, so it was a good deal.

Based on my experience, I’d definitely do it again.

 

[sledge]

Never dealt with IDJ, but heard some good things from others.

I did buy a BGD stone for my girl. Currently having a custom setting made at David Klass in LA. I can't say enough good things about BGD & DK. Great products and super customer service. I'd make the same choices over in a heartbeat and I frequently recommend both.

Also, WhiteFlash (WF) is well respected and known. Along with High Performance Diamonds (HPD). James Allen (JA) is another big name but I like them less because you have to request images and additional data; however, they seem to offer great pricing, have a huge selection of settings and appear to offer good products with good customer service.

With BGD, HPD and WF they post this information on their site so it's easily and readily available to make an informed decision. I really dig this transparency as it saves me time & frustration.

Whenever you begin to narrow down the list, remember you can put diamonds on temporary hold and then post links here so we can review & help you determine the quality of the stone(s).

 

[DiamondBaby]

You’re in the UK? One of my friends was robbed and had all her jewellery stolen. She also wanted a 5 stone ring to replace her stolen one. Based on recommendations here (not personal experience) I suggested she check out IDJ. She did, and ended up ordering 2 x 5 stone rings as replacements. She’s absolutely thrilled to bits with her purchases, and said she got both for what she’d been quoted here for one.

I had a ring made in the US last year, and when I brought it home, I was charged 20% VAT at the airport. They gave us a good exchange rate on the purchase, so it was a good deal.

Based on my experience, I’d definitely do it again.

Thanks,
I have spoken to both, but its hard to make a decision, there is a cost difference between the two. I'm in Ireland, so VAT and excise are slightly more than the UK, so that will have to be paid on top of the cost of the actual ring.

 

[DiamondBaby]

Never dealt with IDJ, but heard some good things from others.

I did buy a BGD stone for my girl. Currently having a custom setting made at David Klass in LA. I can't say enough good things about BGD & DK. Great products and super customer service. I'd make the same choices over in a heartbeat and I frequently recommend both.

Also, WhiteFlash (WF) is well respected and known. Along with High Performance Diamonds (HPD). James Allen (JA) is another big name but I like them less because you have to request images and additional data; however, they seem to offer great pricing, have a huge selection of settings and appear to offer good products with good customer service.

With BGD, HPD and WF they post this information on their site so it's easily and readily available to make an informed decision. I really dig this transparency as it saves me time & frustration.

Whenever you begin to narrow down the list, remember you can put diamonds on temporary hold and then post links here so we can review & help you determine the quality of the stone(s).

Thanks sledge,
I will give the others a look, but its a tough choice.

 

[DiamondBaby]

Ive spoken to a few of the vendors, one has come back with diamonds that will be all Pricescope quality but not individually certified, F-G color and SI clarity, is this a bit of a risk or do you will they be ok? It would be in a U prong setting.

The other vendor was D-E VS2, all certified, there is a good bit in the price difference, so I just need help with the diamonds!!

Thanks!!

 

[sledge]

Ive spoken to a few of the vendors, one has come back with diamonds that will be all Pricescope quality but not individually certified, F-G color and SI clarity, is this a bit of a risk or do you will they be ok? It would be in a U prong setting.

The other vendor was D-E VS2, all certified, there is a good bit in the price difference, so I just need help with the diamonds!!

Thanks!!

LOL, who is this vendor that offered "PS quality" diamonds without certs? Sounds fishy to me. Without a cert, you are relying on that vendor to sell you what they said. Plus you have no way of verifying any data outside your own eyes, or their eyes. IMO, yes, this is risky because you have nothing to check against for quality and are totally dependent upon the honesty of the seller, who has a vested interest to sell stones and make money.

The price difference is easy to explain:

• Vendor A offered you certified stones, D-E color & VS2 clarity. While we can argue about rather all those stones have the right angles & measurements (obtained from cert), at least we can agree we know what you are getting -- assuming the certs are AGS or GIA.
• Vendor B offered you uncertified stones in a lower color F-G, and a lower clarity SI (is it SI1 or SI2, and are they eye clean?).

Literally, you are comparing apples to oranges. The more I think about Vendor B.....

So what is your total budget (w/o VAT, etc)? And how much are the settings you have been looking at? Just trying to get an idea how much we have to work with on diamonds only.

Also, what are your PREFERENCES on the stones? I know you want approx 0.40ct each, but what about color & clarity? I assume "eye clean" is good enough? FYI, that term is subjective, but for the purposes of this conversation I will say no imperfections within 10" to the naked eye looking at the top view only. This probably means SI1 or better, although some SI2's will fit the category. Also, I'd assume D-G color since that is the range of both vendors.

 

[sledge]

FYI, here are 5 stones that are very similar to each other with nearly identical measurements. All are ACA, certified and will sparkle like no tomorrow.

Not sure your budget, but for the 5 stones these total $6,440 using wire services -- slightly more for credit cards, etc. If you are seriously interested, I'd talk to WF and ask them to give you a discount for buying 5 stones.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3979466,3809136,3982385,3999659,3999666

 

[rockysalamander]

LOL, who is this vendor that offered "PS quality" diamonds without certs? Sounds fishy to me. W.

Probably IDJ. They offer this as a cost saving measure that suits some and not others. They have a good eye and many are comfortable with these.

 

[ringo865]

I was going to say it was probably IDJ, as well. I think many here have purchased from them sight unseen, though they have also been known to provide idealscope and ASET images, which might assuage any hesitation you have going with them. They do know we're cut nuts here and know what we like/expect. I'm sure their selections would outshine many of those diamonds seen in your own social circles.

Whiteflash and BGD and CBI, etc., are all "super ideal" stones with more precision cutting and stringent other criteria. Some people must have the top of the top of the line. It's great to have these cream of the crop vendors to choose from.

Some people want the biggest, yet very nicely cut, diamond set into a jewelry piece of quality workmanship that they can afford. IDJewelry is great at selecting great finds those clients.

You probably know which camp you're in; that should help guide your vendor selection. Do keep us posted on your journey

 

[sledge]

Sometimes I wish there was an undo or delete button.

To me, what I heard sounded odd and not good. Apparently it's a vendor that performs well and helps people in a different way. I'm sorry I opened my mouth and will try to keep it shut longer next time. Sorry for any disrespect IDJ, assuming that was you.

 

[DiamondBaby]

Hi Ladies, I've been doing some major looking around, I know what the cost of getting a ring made here is, and i've had a few quotes, some with certified from here and in the US, and some not certified again here and the US.
The US IDJ have been great to deal with, uncertified diamonds, but the reports on here indicate that people are delighted with what they get from them, and they are aware that I have been looking here.
The others @ringo865 mentioned have been great as well, its a tough choice.
Then you get the jewellers here at home, the one big advantage is I can see the diamonds. There was one certified diamond quote, and one not. The not one was from the jeweller who reset my rings, and I love his work. And a few more jewellers i've been into that have rings that aren't what i'm looking for, they can be made up, but then i'm committed to buying, and not certified diamonds.

The big thing, ultimately is if I buy from the US I am probably buying sight unseen, if thats a risk with or without certs on the diamonds I don't know, i've no knowledge of buying sight unseen.

Most of the quotes go between F SI1 and FVS2 F/G SI diamonds. Probably a stupid question, but buying sight unseen, and looking at them is there an appreciable difference between the SI1 and VS2 diamonds.

The other factor is the cost, and not the cost of the ring really, but the payment of excise and VAT shipping it here. As an example, using two sets of figures, (not ring prices) as examples to give the ranges quoted Vs Ireland

Ring Price Incl Delivery $5100
Total incl excise @2.3% & VAT @23% $6417 US €5413 Euro

Ring Price Incl Delivery $7100
Total incl excise @2.3% & VAT @23% $8933 US €7717 Euro

The top end of the range is only just under the Irish prices, and I would get to see the certs and diamonds first getting them here.

I'm just not sure what is the best course of action, so looking for advise.

Sorry, this is a long read!

 

[ringo865]

Any one of the vendors recommended here it will most likely be able to get you stones that are better than your local jeweler can provide. Certs or not.

 

[rockysalamander]

This comes down to trust. You have to trust that the vendor will provide you with good stones, regardless of where you go. We can't speak for your local vendors, but you could probably search for any of the recommended vendors here to see what level of trust exists. I've seen novice and experienced PS members go both for certed and uncerted stones from IDJ and I can't recall anyone being unhappy with either outcome.

I buy a lot of uncertified diamonds. But, I'm confident in my skills to judge diamonds with my eyes. If you don't have that confidence with your skills, then its back to trusting the vendor's eyes. Cut is simply not a high priority in most European countries, so a lot of our overseas members have had a hard time getting the kinds of stones that are available as "PS" quality from IDJ and zero access to super-ideals. Even if they bring in stones with good numbers, are you confident that you can tell them apart for performance?

BTW...for this size stone, you will not see any difference in SI vs VS -- if the vendor selects well for you such than in both grades the inclusions don't impact light return. There's that darn trust thing again.

 

[OoohShiny]

Sometimes I wish there was an undo or delete button.

To me, what I heard sounded odd and not good. Apparently it's a vendor that performs well and helps people in a different way. I'm sorry I opened my mouth and will try to keep it shut longer next time. Sorry for any disrespect IDJ, assuming that was you.

It is wise to be cynical, do not fret

I think both IDJ and @Wink can get 'PS-quality' smaller stones - IIRC @cflutist had Wink find some to go with her recent CBI purchases!

 

[CoffeeAndDiamonds]

Hi Ladies, I've been doing some major looking around, I know what the cost of getting a ring made here is, and i've had a few quotes, some with certified from here and in the US, and some not certified again here and the US.
The US IDJ have been great to deal with, uncertified diamonds, but the reports on here indicate that people are delighted with what they get from them, and they are aware that I have been looking here.
The others @ringo865 mentioned have been great as well, its a tough choice.
Then you get the jewellers here at home, the one big advantage is I can see the diamonds. There was one certified diamond quote, and one not. The not one was from the jeweller who reset my rings, and I love his work. And a few more jewellers i've been into that have rings that aren't what i'm looking for, they can be made up, but then i'm committed to buying, and not certified diamonds.

The big thing, ultimately is if I buy from the US I am probably buying sight unseen, if thats a risk with or without certs on the diamonds I don't know, i've no knowledge of buying sight unseen.

Most of the quotes go between F SI1 and FVS2 F/G SI diamonds. Probably a stupid question, but buying sight unseen, and looking at them is there an appreciable difference between the SI1 and VS2 diamonds.

The other factor is the cost, and not the cost of the ring really, but the payment of excise and VAT shipping it here. As an example, using two sets of figures, (not ring prices) as examples to give the ranges quoted Vs Ireland

Ring Price Incl Delivery $5100
Total incl excise @2.3% & VAT @23% $6417 US €5413 Euro

Ring Price Incl Delivery $7100
Total incl excise @2.3% & VAT @23% $8933 US €7717 Euro

The top end of the range is only just under the Irish prices, and I would get to see the certs and diamonds first getting them here.

I'm just not sure what is the best course of action, so looking for advise.

Sorry, this is a long read!

If you decide to go local, Luisa Verling in Dublin does brilliant work. She made my custom engagement ring and was absolutely lovely to work with!

 

[sledge]

It is wise to be cynical, do not fret

I think both IDJ and @Wink can get 'PS-quality' smaller stones - IIRC @cflutist had Wink find some to go with her recent CBI purchases!

Thanks @OoohShiny. Definitely got the cynical part covered. Working on being more wise.

I don't know squat about IDJ. Could be the best guys ever. I will say I've had a friend buy from Wink with good results. Also, having read some of his posts here, he genuinely seems focused on the interests of people and not his monetary gain. Although I'm sure by focusing on people, the other works out well for him. From what I've seen he truly has "clients" and not "customers". There is a difference.

I think as @rockysalamander pointed out, it comes down to trust. Anytime you are doing a purchase online it's difficult. Add the overseas factor and it becomes even more difficult. But maybe not just trust in vendors, but in yourself as well. Although your eyes may not be trained well enough to discern quality differences, you can still trust in yourself to make a good decision.

I kind of see it this way, and something only you can decide at this point...

• You buy super ideals, have certs to prove you bought the best and know beyond a shadow of a doubt the quality you bought. The downside is the money. Probably nothing local and the top end of your overseas budget if I were guessing. You don't have to answer this to us, but you need to answer for yourself -- if you were willing to fork over the extra cash, do you have the funds to do so without impacting your life in a negative way? If so, then perhaps you can trust yourself to know you spent your money well and received the highest quality as a result. If not, then you can trust yourself to know that you need to take care of your priorities first and this is not an option because it hurts you in other areas of your life that matter more.
• You buy from a source like IDJ or @Wink and put your trust in them to make a solid decision for you on the diamonds using non-certified stones. This should be at the lower end of your overseas budget but roughly about $1,400 to $1,900 USD higher than local jewelers using the data you reported above. If I were you, and based on your uncertainty of picking super diamonds, I would either entrust a local PS member (assuming they would even agree) or hire a 3rd party inspector to review the stones and confirm their quality. The charges would be minimal, but IMO, a necessary part of the equation for you to get the "warm fuzzies" before you actually buy. Assuming you go this route, you can now trust yourself to know you didn't just blow your budget for bling. Instead, you found a happy medium with your money and took additional measures to confirm you bought non-certified stones that are still gorgeous and high performing. If not, you can trust yourself to know you will utilize a local vendor to maximize your budget.
• You buy locally either certified or non-certified stones. Because of statements made about other countries not recognizing well cut to the same standards of the USA, I would definitely want a 3rd party opinion concerning their quality. If non-certified, consider sending to AGS for grading. To make the deal more interesting, perhaps have the jeweler do all this himself with an agreement that the stones don't come back certified as he said then you don't buy or lose any money in the process. Now you can trust yourself to know you maximized your dollar, while still allowing a small budget to provide the confirmation you need to know you bought good stones. If not, then you can trust yourself to have the discipline to delay the purchase until you can afford one of the two options above.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Thanks @OoohShiny. Definitely got the cynical part covered. Working on being more wise.

I don't know squat about IDJ. Could be the best guys ever. I will say I've had a friend buy from Wink with good results. Also, having read some of his posts here, he genuinely seems focused on the interests of people and not his monetary gain. Although I'm sure by focusing on people, the other works out well for him. From what I've seen he truly has "clients" and not "customers". There is a difference.

I think as @rockysalamander pointed out, it comes down to trust. Anytime you are doing a purchase online it's difficult. Add the overseas factor and it becomes even more difficult. But maybe not just trust in vendors, but in yourself as well. Although your eyes may not be trained well enough to discern quality differences, you can still trust in yourself to make a good decision.

I kind of see it this way, and something only you can decide at this point...

• You buy super ideals, have certs to prove you bought the best and know beyond a shadow of a doubt the quality you bought. The downside is the money. Probably nothing local and the top end of your overseas budget if I were guessing. You don't have to answer this to us, but you need to answer for yourself -- if you were willing to fork over the extra cash, do you have the funds to do so without impacting your life in a negative way? If so, then perhaps you can trust yourself to know you spent your money well and received the highest quality as a result. If not, then you can trust yourself to know that you need to take care of your priorities first and this is not an option because it hurts you in other areas of your life that matter more.
• You buy from a source like IDJ or @Wink and put your trust in them to make a solid decision for you on the diamonds using non-certified stones. This should be at the lower end of your overseas budget but roughly about $1,400 to $1,900 USD higher than local jewelers using the data you reported above. If I were you, and based on your uncertainty of picking super diamonds, I would either entrust a local PS member (assuming they would even agree) or hire a 3rd party inspector to review the stones and confirm their quality. The charges would be minimal, but IMO, a necessary part of the equation for you to get the "warm fuzzies" before you actually buy. Assuming you go this route, you can now trust yourself to know you didn't just blow your budget for bling. Instead, you found a happy medium with your money and took additional measures to confirm you bought non-certified stones that are still gorgeous and high performing. If not, you can trust yourself to know you will utilize a local vendor to maximize your budget.
• You buy locally either certified or non-certified stones. Because of statements made about other countries not recognizing well cut to the same standards of the USA, I would definitely want a 3rd party opinion concerning their quality. If non-certified, consider sending to AGS for grading. To make the deal more interesting, perhaps have the jeweler do all this himself with an agreement that the stones don't come back certified as he said then you don't buy or lose any money in the process. Now you can trust yourself to know you maximized your dollar, while still allowing a small budget to provide the confirmation you need to know you bought good stones. If not, then you can trust yourself to have the discipline to delay the purchase until you can afford one of the two options above.

Exactly this!

@DiamondBaby did you know there is a CBI dealer in Dublin? They are called Precious, I think, have a look at the CBI website for their address and phone number. I’d go there and look at the stones in person.

 

[DiamondBaby]

This comes down to trust. You have to trust that the vendor will provide you with good stones, regardless of where you go. We can't speak for your local vendors, but you could probably search for any of the recommended vendors here to see what level of trust exists. I've seen novice and experienced PS members go both for certed and uncerted stones from IDJ and I can't recall anyone being unhappy with either outcome.

I buy a lot of uncertified diamonds. But, I'm confident in my skills to judge diamonds with my eyes. If you don't have that confidence with your skills, then its back to trusting the vendor's eyes. Cut is simply not a high priority in most European countries, so a lot of our overseas members have had a hard time getting the kinds of stones that are available as "PS" quality from IDJ and zero access to super-ideals. Even if they bring in stones with good numbers, are you confident that you can tell them apart for performance?

BTW...for this size stone, you will not see any difference in SI vs VS -- if the vendor selects well for you such than in both grades the inclusions don't impact light return. There's that darn trust thing again.

Thanks @rockysalamander The local jewellers don't seen to have many diamonds loose in stock, so I am ordering then sight unseen, and potentially cert unseen. At least with the US based ones I can look at the certs for the diamonds, or in the case of others like IDJ where there is an option for uncertified, they have an excellent reputation here, so on the question of trust, the US based options score higher at the moment.

 

[DiamondBaby]

Exactly this!

@DiamondBaby did you know there is a CBI dealer in Dublin? They are called Precious, I think, have a look at the CBI website for their address and phone number. I’d go there and look at the stones in person.

Thanks @Snowdrop13 I will give them a call

 

[DiamondBaby]

If you decide to go local, Luisa Verling in Dublin does brilliant work. She made my custom engagement ring and was absolutely lovely to work with!

Thanks @Ontheblackrock15 I will look her up.

 

[DiamondBaby]

Thanks @OoohShiny. Definitely got the cynical part covered. Working on being more wise.

I don't know squat about IDJ. Could be the best guys ever. I will say I've had a friend buy from Wink with good results. Also, having read some of his posts here, he genuinely seems focused on the interests of people and not his monetary gain. Although I'm sure by focusing on people, the other works out well for him. From what I've seen he truly has "clients" and not "customers". There is a difference.

I think as @rockysalamander pointed out, it comes down to trust. Anytime you are doing a purchase online it's difficult. Add the overseas factor and it becomes even more difficult. But maybe not just trust in vendors, but in yourself as well. Although your eyes may not be trained well enough to discern quality differences, you can still trust in yourself to make a good decision.

I kind of see it this way, and something only you can decide at this point...

• You buy super ideals, have certs to prove you bought the best and know beyond a shadow of a doubt the quality you bought. The downside is the money. Probably nothing local and the top end of your overseas budget if I were guessing. You don't have to answer this to us, but you need to answer for yourself -- if you were willing to fork over the extra cash, do you have the funds to do so without impacting your life in a negative way? If so, then perhaps you can trust yourself to know you spent your money well and received the highest quality as a result. If not, then you can trust yourself to know that you need to take care of your priorities first and this is not an option because it hurts you in other areas of your life that matter more.
• You buy from a source like IDJ or @Wink and put your trust in them to make a solid decision for you on the diamonds using non-certified stones. This should be at the lower end of your overseas budget but roughly about $1,400 to $1,900 USD higher than local jewelers using the data you reported above. If I were you, and based on your uncertainty of picking super diamonds, I would either entrust a local PS member (assuming they would even agree) or hire a 3rd party inspector to review the stones and confirm their quality. The charges would be minimal, but IMO, a necessary part of the equation for you to get the "warm fuzzies" before you actually buy. Assuming you go this route, you can now trust yourself to know you didn't just blow your budget for bling. Instead, you found a happy medium with your money and took additional measures to confirm you bought non-certified stones that are still gorgeous and high performing. If not, you can trust yourself to know you will utilize a local vendor to maximize your budget.
• You buy locally either certified or non-certified stones. Because of statements made about other countries not recognizing well cut to the same standards of the USA, I would definitely want a 3rd party opinion concerning their quality. If non-certified, consider sending to AGS for grading. To make the deal more interesting, perhaps have the jeweler do all this himself with an agreement that the stones don't come back certified as he said then you don't buy or lose any money in the process. Now you can trust yourself to know you maximized your dollar, while still allowing a small budget to provide the confirmation you need to know you bought good stones. If not, then you can trust yourself to have the discipline to delay the purchase until you can afford one of the two options above.

Thanks @sledge the main view of most here is to do with trust, and even buying sight unseen, their reputation precedes most of the main dealers on here. There just isn't this equivilent here. Still no closer to making the decision though!

 

[DiamondBaby]

I've taken a really tough decision to call a halt to the search for my 5 stone eternity ring. Ultimately for what I was looking for 2ctw, platinum setting, the choice Vs cost Vs sales tax on arrival here was making me compromise too much on what I wanted, so I'll hang on a while and do it properly in a while. @sledge you made a very relevant point in relation to the cost and wether going up much more would impact everything else in my life. I was putting myself under way too much pressure to choose one thing over another and it got very hard. The one consolation I have is that I got really great info from all of you and its something I can go back on for my next go at it, whenever that is!!

I might console myself with my first pair ever of diamond studs though so I'm off to go looking for your wonderful advice for that purchase shortly!!

Thanks again everyone

 

[rockysalamander]

I've taken a really tough decision to call a halt to the search for my 5 stone eternity ring. Ultimately for what I was looking for 2ctw, platinum setting, the choice Vs cost Vs sales tax on arrival here was making me compromise too much on what I wanted, so I'll hang on a while and do it properly in a while. @sledge you made a very relevant point in relation to the cost and wether going up much more would impact everything else in my life. I was putting myself under way too much pressure to choose one thing over another and it got very hard. The one consolation I have is that I got really great info from all of you and its something I can go back on for my next go at it, whenever that is!!

I might console myself with my first pair ever of diamond studs though so I'm off to go looking for your wonderful advice for that purchase shortly!!

Thanks again everyone

This is such a wise choice! Good for you...

 

[sledge]

Sorry you are not getting your ring but I am very happy you figured out what you really wanted and values, and also understanding your budget constraints.

It's been my experience if something doesn't feel right "in my gut" then it's best to walk away or approach it differently.

We will be here to help when the time is right. So congrats on making a tough but very wise decision!

 

[baby monster]

I'd say make it a vacation and go see stones in person in US.

 

[DiamondBaby]

I'd say make it a vacation and go see stones in person in US.

Thank you @baby monster thats not a bad idea!!!