Help with 2ct RB

[throwaway92]

Hi PS, I have been a lurker on this forum for a while but my time has come. I've read a bunch of old threads and am familiar with rough guidelines and the HCA tool. I am looking for a ~2ct modern round brilliant cut. The below 2 diamonds are similarly priced but I think the G VVS has a slightly better cut? Does one stand out to the other? Also is the F vs G a noticeable step on-hand/in-setting at this size?

G VVS2 - $23,460
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4213014

F VVS2 - $25,830
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5556608

Finally, some people at work have advised I go to "their guy" vs. buy online - at this sort of price range and exacting cut specs will the online retailers be competitive in price vs an independent dealer? I like the peace of mind and lack of pressure from online sales but have to imagine I am leaving some $ on the table.

 

[Stephan]

Are you looking for strong blue fluorescence? Both have it.

 

[bmfang]

If you really want to compare with “their guy” ask for a quote on a stone with the same colour, clarity and carat combo as those you have been looking at on James Allen.

Ask for GIA and AGS graded stones and ask for report numbers. If the proportions are within PS recommended ranges and they work out cheaper than JA, then maybe it is worth going to your colleagues’ jeweller. If not and the proportions are atrocious and (more likely) the prices higher, you know which is the better value deal.

My money is on an online retailer getting you more for your buck than a traditional B&M store.

 

[throwaway92]

Are you looking for strong blue fluorescence? Both have it.

I don't see any difference between strong and "none"/"faint" when viewing online. Is there any way to determine negative effects? I've read that there is essentially no effect to strong fluorescence and certainly haven't noticed someones diamond looking blue.

 

[bmfang]

Are you looking for strong blue fluorescence? Both have it.

@throwaway92 , @Stephan raises a good point. Stones with fluorescence trade at a discount to those that don’t. Some like the party trick that these stones can pull under a black light (I’m one of those that love it), others don’t. Most B&M jewellers I have visited steer me clear away from stones with fluorescence. When I push them on why I should stay away, all but one of them have been able to give me a good answer (and that one who did put a caveat on her answer saying that in some cases, fluorescence can make the stone look milky and affect transparency, for the most part the effect will be neutral or positive).

 

[throwaway92]

fair enough. located in NYC so would be a personal contact in the diamond district. Not sure if that changes the gut take but proof will be in the pudding

 

[throwaway92]

@throwaway92 , @Stephan raises a good point. Stones with fluorescence trade at a discount to those that don’t. Some like the party trick that these stones can pull under a black light (I’m one of those that love it), others don’t. Most B&M jewellers I have visited steer me clear away from stones with fluorescence. When I push them on why I should stay away, all but one of them have been able to give me a good answer (and that one who did put a caveat on her answer saying that in some cases, fluorescence can make the stone look milky and affect transparency, for the most part the effect will be neutral or positive).

I guess my hesitation to screen out fluorescence is primarily price related. And it seems that even in "strong" stones you can have essentially zero effect or a milky appearance. I suppose online retailers try to hide this by showing stones in UV-free lighting?

 

[bmfang]

fair enough. located in NYC so would be a personal contact in the diamond district. Not sure if that changes the gut take but proof will be in the pudding

If you want to take the plunge in the NYC Diamond District, either be very strict with the specifications you are after or the easier thing is go see Yekutiel at ID Jewelry.

 

[Stephan]

https://beyond4cs.com/grading/fluorescence/haziness-or-transparency-issues/

 

[bmfang]

If looking for fluorescent stones, my best pick is a stone from Brian Gavin’s Blue range. Those do not exhibit milkiness or haziness.

 

[throwaway92]

I see - I'd like to avoid this after all. Will take another look back through screens. Is a high quality G or F color 2ct round brilliant with an excellent cut feasible in the ~$25k range?

 

[bmfang]

I see - I'd like to avoid this after all. Will take another look back through screens. Is a high quality G or F color 2ct round brilliant with an excellent cut feasible in the ~$25k range?

Those two with strong blue fluorescence are good buys, subject to a gemologist confirming that the fluorescence does NOT impact on transparency and the stone does not look milky or hazy in different lighting conditions.

Doing a search on JA, you aren’t going to be able to find any stones for around $25k sans fluorescence at those clarity levels. If you drop to VS1, I can find 6 around $25k but none i’d Recommend.

At VS2 clarity, 11 show up and this one looks good from an angle combo perspective but I am not keen on the inclusion directly under the table:
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5595474

Most of these stones are cut with CA or PA being outside of recommended proportions one one or both angles.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Talk to Lesley or Brian about cutting you a 2+ct blue fluor stone. Don't let other people scare you from buying a blue fluor stone. you just need to get in touch with BGD.
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/

Here is my daughter's 2.05ct G VS2 med blue fluor (under the sun) from BGD.

Indoor shots

Under a UV flashlight.

 

[throwaway92]

How about this one? Looks pretty ideal to me
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6170722

 

[bmfang]

How about this one? Looks pretty ideal to me
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6170722

Not ideal to me. Angle combo is not what we would consider to be ideal at all.

 

[throwaway92]

I am getting the sense that pricescope generally does not like diamonds unless White Flash ACA or similar Brian Gavin line. I struggle with pricing as a a XXX or Ideal vs ACA price difference is enough to go up ~10pts in carat weight in addition to a color grade. Am I off base on this? Just feels like there is a large premium for not an obvious effect.

 

[throwaway92]

For example, would I be better off with this? ~$1k more but VVS2 and ACA, sacrificing ~0.2ct. I am not 100% tied to the 2ct mark if there will be a clear value to the ACA cut.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022264.htm

 

[lovedogs]

I am getting the sense that pricescope generally does not like diamonds unless White Flash ACA or similar Brian Gavin line. I struggle with pricing as a a XXX or Ideal vs ACA price difference is enough to go up ~10pts in carat weight in addition to a color grade. Am I off base on this? Just feels like there is a large premium for not an obvious effect.

I don't think that's true at all. ACA is one of the "super ideal" vendors we highly recommend, but it's for good reason. You get an excellent upgrade policy, and don't have to do any HCA calculations, ASET/IS image searching, etc. You are guaranteed a top notch stone. We also are very open to non "super ideals" that fall into ideal cut territory (if they look good with HCA and ASET).

 

[throwaway92]

Are there any good resources or videos that demonstrate the value of the good HCA/ASET? I've seen a few but deltas seem marginal. I like that someone has pre-vetted the stone and seemingly larger spread of the ACAs. $27k for a G VS2 just feels very high.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018650.htm

A quick Blue Nile screen for Ideal/G/VS2 doesn't have anything approaching $27k in their entire inventory. Is the ACA really that much better? Curious if there are any videos or side-by-sides you would recommend? Sorry if this is coming across poorly, just trying to understand.

 

[lovedogs]

Are there any good resources or videos that demonstrate the value of the good HCA/ASET? I've seen a few but deltas seem marginal. I like that someone has pre-vetted the stone and seemingly larger spread of the ACAs. $27k for a G VS2 just feels very high.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018650.htm

A quick Blue Nile screen for Ideal/G/VS2 doesn't have anything approaching $27k in their entire inventory. Is the ACA really that much better? Curious if there are any videos or side-by-sides you would recommend? Sorry if this is coming across poorly, just trying to understand.

The issue is that you aren't comparing equal things. That's like asking whether a BMW is the same as a Ford because "they are both cars". "Ideal" on BN is totally different than what we are talking about in terms of a "super ideal" from WF, or even from an "ideal" stone. What BN thinks is "ideal" is usually not ideal at all.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Super ideal cut stones are just more expensive in general. You are paying for top of the line precision cutting that renders ideal light performance. They don't cut corners with the rough trying to hit a certain carat weight. The difference is definitely perceptible but it depends on how important that is to you. Buying from a vendor with in house, vetted stones can be worth its weight in gold as is a great trade in policy. For me personally, it was worth it and I've never regretted it for a moment. However, everyone has different criteria for buying a diamond so what's good for one may not be good for another. I do believe though that you'll never regret buying quality.

 

[beardog]

For videos try searching:
good old good
There's a wealth of knowledge in all aspects spread out into short videos with different types of comparisons or categories. If memory serves all the stones in the videos are their stones so it always came off as education rather than sales tactics. I'm sure if you search through their videos you'll find something.
One thing you'll see if you read back through forums on here is that while every ags000 would make the cut for giaxxx, the same can't be said the other way around

 

[Dancing Fire]

For example, would I be better off with this? ~$1k more but VVS2 and ACA, sacrificing ~0.2ct. I am not 100% tied to the 2ct mark if there will be a clear value to the ACA cut.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022264.htm

A very nice stone!

 

[bmfang]

I am getting the sense that pricescope generally does not like diamonds unless White Flash ACA or similar Brian Gavin line. I struggle with pricing as a a XXX or Ideal vs ACA price difference is enough to go up ~10pts in carat weight in addition to a color grade. Am I off base on this? Just feels like there is a large premium for not an obvious effect.

Nope, that’s not my issue. It’s solely due to proportions. Why ACA, BGD, CBI, etc get recommended so often on here is that the proportions of their stones will result in measurably better light performance if you were to use Idealscope or ASET scopes. This translates into better overall light performance in different lighting scenarios.

You can find stones that fit within these general PS ranges for super ideal modern round brilliants at dropshippers like James Allen, Blue Nile, etc and on occasion, some of them will have as good optical symmetry as a stone from Whiteflash, etc. You do however have to do the legwork and find them. That takes time.

Sometimes, you will find that JA stones may even be more expensive than at a super ideal vendor (this usually happens with JA’s “superideal” True Hearts range).

I try to be as vendor neutral as possible (even though my purchases thus far have been solely from BGD) and will scour superideal vendors plus also dropshipper sites to see if there are any stones that would fall within my preferred proportions (which are very close to PS ranges).

Incidentally, the JA stone you recently posted comes up with a HCA above 3. We PSers tend to use HCA as a screening tool for stones from dropshipper websites and look for stones that score under 2 as being worthy of further consideration.

 

[Dancing Fire]

How about this one? Looks pretty ideal to me
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...f-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6170722

Not a good stone. The cutter intentionally kept enough weigh on the bottom half to make this stone a 2ct.

 

[bmfang]

Not a good stone. The cutter intentionally kept enough weigh on the bottom half to make this stone a 2ct.

Had the pavilion angle been at 41.1 degrees or under, it might have been better (HCA would come in under 2). The stone looks incredibly dull under the table in the vid.

 

[crbl999]

Are there any good resources or videos that demonstrate the value of the good HCA/ASET? I've seen a few but deltas seem marginal. I like that someone has pre-vetted the stone and seemingly larger spread of the ACAs. $27k for a G VS2 just feels very high.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018650.htm

A quick Blue Nile screen for Ideal/G/VS2 doesn't have anything approaching $27k in their entire inventory. Is the ACA really that much better? Curious if there are any videos or side-by-sides you would recommend? Sorry if this is coming across poorly, just trying to understand.

Here is a great video done by Good Old Gold showing the difference between a well cut GIA XXX and a steep deep GIA XXX.

 

[throwaway92]

Thanks all for the input - just want to see if I am learning here. Is below rock comparable to a ACA/ super ideal proportion? If so why is it not branded by JA?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6267074

 

[crbl999]

Thanks all for the input - just want to see if I am learning here. Is below rock comparable to a ACA/ super ideal proportion? If so why is it not branded by JA?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6267074

This stone is not comparable to a super ideal. It does not have the symmetry to exhibit hearts and arrows. This is why it is not branded as True Hearts by JA. Those proportions can work; you will need to request an IS or ASET image to confirm performance.

 

[Matilda]

Okay is there a particular reason you really want such high colour grade and clarity?
If you stick to VS2 and SI1 eye clean, H colour you will be able to increase in size without a noticeable difference in the stone. All in-house Whiteflash stones graded SI1 are eye clean.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/search.aspx

this one is nice especially, I apologise if someone has already posted it:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4060812.htm

Also if you want to pursue the JA etc use the advanced filter option and put in the ranges that would signify the ideal ranges I think you will have a more efficient search. For instance, depth range, table range etc.