HELP! Why are Harry Winston Diamonds So Sparkly?! Any equivalent?

[autumnxxa]

I've been googling this forum endlessly for more information about engagement rings and I do hope a couple of you could help me out here. This is my first time posting, but have been longtime lurking! My SO and I are based in LA, if that helps!

So my SO and I have been looking for engagement rings and mistakenly walked into Harry Winston at the initial stages of our search. Obviously HW isn't the best value for money and I can't find myself paying the ridiculous markup prices... HOWEVER, there's this quality to their diamonds that make it sparkle way too much and I find myself too drawn to it.

Based on the advice of most people here, we've even gone to check out Victor Canera as we're based in LA. His handiwork is great of course (thanks guys!) but I think we could do better with the diamonds (based on everyone else's eye catching bling here). Also went to Tiffany and Cartier but it lacks the *sparkle.*

So, I'm hoping to hear from all of you as I'm not very well versed in the cut proportions and numbers. Even then I'm sure it's difficult to gauge performance. So far, mixed reviews of the online diamond sites too and I'd rather look at in person before having my SO drop a bomb on it. I've been trying to look for specs of HW diamonds so I could buy an equivalent one and just have it set by VC, but nothing has come up so far...

If anyone could contribute anything, I'd appreciate it so much. Even something as simple as, "check out x jeweler in downtown" would be awesome. Thanks guys! Looking forward.

 

[ecf8503]

There's nothing inherently better about HW. If they keep their stones clean, and have really good lighting, they will knock your socks off. If you purchased a VC ideal round for example, took it into HW, you'd see it would sparkle the same way. You need to look at diamonds in all lighting - daylight, shade, even under the table to reduce the effects of the expensive, fancy in-store lighting. If you've only seen HW stones under their lighting, it's not a fair or realistic example of how a diamond performs.

 

[bmfang]

Instore lighting plays a major part in why the stones at places like HW and Tiffany's look great. Having said that, a lot of stones at places like them are cut relatively well.

But for the prices they charge, you could get something larger in carat weight from one of the super ideal vendors we usually recommend. VC's H&A stones are beautifully cut and they are likely to match (if not exceed) the performance of stones at HW, Tiffany's, etc. My wife's BGD stones have had favourable comments from sales staff at Tiffany's and other local jewellery shops here in Australia and they are astounded when I tell them that we purchased them from an online vendor based in Houston.

Like ecf said, looking at diamonds in all lighting scenarios is the key to being able to see how a diamond performs rather than under jewellery store lighting conditions.

 

[distracts]

Yeah, having been in HW, it's the combination of store lighting + big rocks.

 

[Tophat1]

I can't speak to HW stones as I've never been inside a HW store, but I brought my WHteflash ACA into a Tiffany store and it outsparkled (outfired really) every other diamond in the case.

 

[rubybeth]

Some of the most beautiful rings here were made by Victor Canera. I really think it must be the Harry Winston lighting.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI autumnxxa,
May I ask what shape diamond were you looking at- or was it just in general?

 

[autumnxxa]

There's nothing inherently better about HW. If they keep their stones clean, and have really good lighting, they will knock your socks off. If you purchased a VC ideal round for example, took it into HW, you'd see it would sparkle the same way. You need to look at diamonds in all lighting - daylight, shade, even under the table to reduce the effects of the expensive, fancy in-store lighting. If you've only seen HW stones under their lighting, it's not a fair or realistic example of how a diamond performs.

HW's store isn't the most well-lit and they shine a light on their diamonds when you see them. I wanted to simulate the same thing at VC so I shone some light on it. Not sure if I was spellbound on first visit to HW... But will probably make another trip to see it with more rationality. Not saying that the VC diamond are bad, in fact I'd say how it looks on the site was a 100% reflection of it IRL, tulips, heart + arrows etc were very visible.

 

[autumnxxa]

Instore lighting plays a major part in why the stones at places like HW and Tiffany's look great. Having said that, a lot of stones at places like them are cut relatively well.

But for the prices they charge, you could get something larger in carat weight from one of the super ideal vendors we usually recommend. VC's H&A stones are beautifully cut and they are likely to match (if not exceed) the performance of stones at HW, Tiffany's, etc. My wife's BGD stones have had favourable comments from sales staff at Tiffany's and other local jewellery shops here in Australia and they are astounded when I tell them that we purchased them from an online vendor based in Houston.

Like ecf said, looking at diamonds in all lighting scenarios is the key to being able to see how a diamond performs rather than under jewellery store lighting conditions.

I've definitely been looking a bit too much at BGD tbh! I think someone on here had recommended the Black line but I honestly can't tell the difference yet other than the 4Cs...

Definitely agree with that too, but I think it's hard to evaluate that 100% as all the jewelry store are more than cautious with us handling their precious rings and diamonds! Was there a table/chart you looked at before buying your BGD stone for your wife? Or did you rely solely on their videos and certification to check on their symmetry etc?

 

[autumnxxa]

I can't speak to HW stones as I've never been inside a HW store, but I brought my WHteflash ACA into a Tiffany store and it outsparkled (outfired really) every other diamond in the case.

I've heard so much about this too! And it seems Whiteflash and BGD are the vendors of choice here... I honestly think Tiffany diamonds can be out sparkled by a lot of the rings on here from what I've seen... Cartier even for that matter!!

 

[autumnxxa]

HI autumnxxa,
May I ask what shape diamond were you looking at- or was it just in general?

For both HW and VC I looked at their round diamonds. Carats at HW were lower, around 1 but still very fiery. For VC, it was the Canera Hearts and the European Cut.

 

[autumnxxa]

Again I want to thank all of you for your prompt replies!! You guys are amazing! <3

Also wanted to add a question - when you bought your diamonds online, did you analyze all the diamond specs? Cut angle, cult, pavilion depth etc? Seems like a lot of numbers and I've heard they don't 100% necessarily reflect the fieriness in terms of diamond performance.

 

[bmfang]

I've definitely been looking a bit too much at BGD tbh! I think someone on here had recommended the Black line but I honestly can't tell the difference yet other than the 4Cs...

Definitely agree with that too, but I think it's hard to evaluate that 100% as all the jewelry store are more than cautious with us handling their precious rings and diamonds! Was there a table/chart you looked at before buying your BGD stone for your wife? Or did you rely solely on their videos and certification to check on their symmetry etc?

I've had stores ask for my drivers licence before they allowed me to handle rings on the other side of the counter. Others stores, no issues.

I bought the BGD stones based off imagery on their site, AGS grading reports and after numerous discussions with Lesley via Live Chat. I got some pretty sweet deals price wise for the stones and settings (ring & martini studs) just by talking with Lesley.

 

[bmfang]

Again I want to thank all of you for your prompt replies!! You guys are amazing! <3

Also wanted to add a question - when you bought your diamonds online, did you analyze all the diamond specs? Cut angle, cult, pavilion depth etc? Seems like a lot of numbers and I've heard they don't 100% necessarily reflect the fieriness in terms of diamond performance.

Yes, the specs played a major part. I spent more time obsessing over various grading reports for different stones before I used HCA and imagery to whittle down to the stones I ended up purchasing.

 

[Rockdiamond]

A possibility: It's possible you prefer the look of non "super ideal" diamonds. There are very tight parameters for "Super Ideal"- some of the proportion sets tat don;t fit into "Super Ideal" are GIA EX cut grade. A discriminating eye can see the difference.
Although it's easy to get the impression that every individual will pick the "super ideal", the reality is the differences are subjective- based to some degree on the opinion of the viewer.
I know I feel this way, and it's gotten me in hot water here on PS over the years.
Bit maybe it's due to the fact that I was trained to grade diamonds by Harry Winston

 

[distracts]

HW's store isn't the most well-lit and they shine a light on their diamonds when you see them. I wanted to simulate the same thing at VC so I shone some light on it. Not sure if I was spellbound on first visit to HW... But will probably make another trip to see it with more rationality. Not saying that the VC diamond are bad, in fact I'd say how it looks on the site was a 100% reflection of it IRL, tulips, heart + arrows etc were very visible.

What kind of light you shine on them makes a difference. Also, yes, dim lighting with spotlighting creates many sparkles in a way that brighter lighting doesn't. It's the choice for a lot of the higher-end jewelry stores I've been in.

 

[EvaEvans]

May be Harry Winston is more picky about the diamond crystal! Whatever some people want to influence, diamond sparkle does NOT depend only of the 4C, neither of the super ideal cut, neither fluorescence!
I am engineer and I know that diamond crystal structure could be very unique for every particular diamond. In ideal situation we have colorless D color and Flawless clarity. Yet, flawless means clean of any inclusions under 10x loupe. We don't know what inclusions the diamond crystal possibly have on atomic level. Hypothetically a completely clean by color and clarity diamond crystal is composite of Carbon atoms only. In reality, most probably every diamond has some inclusions, even the D color, flawless diamonds! All these supreme small microscopic inclusions could affect the diamond appearance like the diamond sparkle.
So, in conclusion, because there is no scientific way to measure the sparkle of the diamond, every reputable jeweler will pick up his stones by HAND (means, by eye inspection of specialist).

 

[arkieb1]

A lot of high end shops use specific lighting, it can be low and they still use special blue lights and other lights that will make diamonds and gemstones for that matter sparkle light crazy or in the case of coloured stones make the colour "pop" more.

Don't be fooled a well cut diamond is the thing that will give it max sparkle and fire in real life. Go and have a look at some custom cut hearts and arrows stones and some new old cut stones by Victor Canera.

In both stores see if you can get near a window with more natural lighting that will be a more accurate place to access the diamonds.

 

[autumnxxa]

A possibility: It's possible you prefer the look of non "super ideal" diamonds. There are very tight parameters for "Super Ideal"- some of the proportion sets tat don;t fit into "Super Ideal" are GIA EX cut grade. A discriminating eye can see the difference.
Although it's easy to get the impression that every individual will pick the "super ideal", the reality is the differences are subjective- based to some degree on the opinion of the viewer.
I know I feel this way, and it's gotten me in hot water here on PS over the years.
Bit maybe it's due to the fact that I was trained to grade diamonds by Harry Winston

Okay... so bear with me on this. Based on my research so far (still a newbie), I've been told a Super Ideal cut yields maximum fire/sparkle/brilliance because it's the perfect specs for light to bounce around. I haven't seen a not-great diamond so far (given that jewelers etc will still shine the brightest light on them) but have seen their firescope images that show the lack of contrast, so I'm assuming they won't sparkle as bright as the Super Ideals.

Are you're saying that the non-Super Ideals have more sparkle?

I've also googled the GIA EX cut grade and with it came a table about the girdle thickness and the cut grade. Have a feeling this plays a big part too? Out of my depth obviously, but hopefully you're able to shine some light on that!

 

[autumnxxa]

What kind of light you shine on them makes a difference. Also, yes, dim lighting with spotlighting creates many sparkles in a way that brighter lighting doesn't. It's the choice for a lot of the higher-end jewelry stores I've been in.

True. I'm going to keep this in mind on my next visit to HW. Perhaps using my phone light to even it out as much as I can this time...

 

[autumnxxa]

May be Harry Winston is more picky about the diamond crystal! Whatever some people want to influence, diamond sparkle does NOT depend only of the 4C, neither of the super ideal cut, neither fluorescence!

THIS!! I've been telling myself this, that they're able to get THE BEST STONES and have somehow bought into their perfectionist ideology. That would be the easy and ideal way out, haha. And yet, being rational and still new to this whole thing, I definitely have to look up specs and see how they appear.

Which brings me to the second point. A lot of the diamond sites are online and my SO will have to drop a bomb before being able to see the real thing.

 

[autumnxxa]

A lot of high end shops use specific lighting, it can be low and they still use special blue lights and other lights that will make diamonds and gemstones for that matter sparkle light crazy or in the case of coloured stones make the colour "pop" more.

Don't be fooled a well cut diamond is the thing that will give it max sparkle and fire in real life. Go and have a look at some custom cut hearts and arrows stones and some new old cut stones by Victor Canera.

In both stores see if you can get near a window with more natural lighting that will be a more accurate place to access the diamonds.

Definitely keeping that in mind on my next visit to HW and also will try to see if they'll let me handle the ring more than two feet away from the counter.

I actually did check out Victor and his stones. When we saw him we were in a room with no windows, just fluorescent lighting. Makes sense since he's in dtla's jewelry district.

Just curious, are there more cuts besides hearts and arrows and the European cuts that I should look at?

 

[arkieb1]

Out of curiosity what colour were the stones you looked at in HW? That might be what you are seeing, because Victor's stones are top top cuts. Basically whiter stones reflect back more light to the human eye mid coloured and lower stones absorb more light. So what you are seeing as sparkly might actually be brightness due to the colour of the diamonds in HW. Either that or 110% it's the lighting they have in there. Their stones aren't any better cut than H & A stones.

 

[Greenmailer]

autumnxxa, While the high-end "name brand" retailers (e.g., HW, VCA, Cartier, Tiffany, etc.) bring a high-level of customer service and a quality offering, a large portion of what you're paying for, in my opinion, is the name. For some people, either because of their personal predilections or the social circles in which they run, these things are important, but you should recognize that a lot of what you're paying for is the ability to say that the piece is from HW and the associated cachet (to put it in other terms, an Aston Martin and a Jaguar may be comparable performance vehicles, but for some, the greater cost and exclusivity of the Aston Martin has a value that goes beyond performance or aesthetics, and it is a matter of personal preference whether this factor, which has nothing to do with the cars' respective objective merits, justifies the difference in cost).

As for the point about higher quality crystal, the ultimate in diamond purity would be a Type IIa diamond which contains neither nitrogen nor boron impurities in the crystal lattice of the carbon that makes up the stone. For some diamond connoisseurs, a D Flawless Type IIa diamond with optimal cutting would constitute the Holy Grail, but any such stone would be extraordinarily expensive, and I am sure the HW stones you have been viewing are not Type IIa diamonds unless they have been identified as such, as these stones would carry a significant premium just for having this characteristic.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It's all about the lighting. I'd take a ring made by Victor Canera any day over HW and would end up with a larger diamond of equal to likely better quality. I'd say the same about Whiteflash diamonds, and I have had a few of them.

Sparkly diamonds = cut, lighting, and the diamond being spotlessly clean

 

[Rockdiamond]

Okay... so bear with me on this. Based on my research so far (still a newbie), I've been told a Super Ideal cut yields maximum fire/sparkle/brilliance because it's the perfect specs for light to bounce around. I haven't seen a not-great diamond so far (given that jewelers etc will still shine the brightest light on them) but have seen their firescope images that show the lack of contrast, so I'm assuming they won't sparkle as bright as the Super Ideals.

Are you're saying that the non-Super Ideals have more sparkle?

I've also googled the GIA EX cut grade and with it came a table about the girdle thickness and the cut grade. Have a feeling this plays a big part too? Out of my depth obviously, but hopefully you're able to shine some light on that!

The stuff in bold is promotional- although it sounds "absolute" scientific facts. The manner in which a diamond reflects the light can be measured, in a sense. Like Firescope.
However this is nothing like using a ruler to measure something. The aspects of brilliance, contrast, patterning,brightness, fire are a complex mix when we're looking at a diamond. For this reason it's quite easy for the results to be used out of contest. We all know an inch is longer than .95 inches. But is lack of patterning "worse" than clearly defined patters of light?
The question is not if a given stone looks better in firescope, but rather which one looks better to your eye. it kinda sounds like you've answered that part.

 

[autumnxxa]

Out of curiosity what colour were the stones you looked at in HW? That might be what you are seeing, because Victor's stones are top top cuts. Basically whiter stones reflect back more light to the human eye mid coloured and lower stones absorb more light. So what you are seeing as sparkly might actually be brightness due to the colour of the diamonds in HW. Either that or 110% it's the lighting they have in there. Their stones aren't any better cut than H & A stones.

Of course! I saw D and F at HW. At Victor's we viewed Fs, similar sizes to what we saw at HW. I totally agree that Victor's stones are top top cuts, I've checked out a lot of the specs that are supposed to make a diamond 'shine brighter,' so to speak and his stones meet that criteria. Do you happen to know if HW stones are H&A cut stones too? So far I only know of H&A and the European.

 

[Snowdrop13]

I've been googling this forum endlessly for more information about engagement rings and I do hope a couple of you could help me out here. This is my first time posting, but have been longtime lurking! My SO and I are based in LA, if that helps!

So my SO and I have been looking for engagement rings and mistakenly walked into Harry Winston at the initial stages of our search. Obviously HW isn't the best value for money and I can't find myself paying the ridiculous markup prices... HOWEVER, there's this quality to their diamonds that make it sparkle way too much and I find myself too drawn to it.

Based on the advice of most people here, we've even gone to check out Victor Canera as we're based in LA. His handiwork is great of course (thanks guys!) but I think we could do better with the diamonds (based on everyone else's eye catching bling here). Also went to Tiffany and Cartier but it lacks the *sparkle.*

So, I'm hoping to hear from all of you as I'm not very well versed in the cut proportions and numbers. Even then I'm sure it's difficult to gauge performance. So far, mixed reviews of the online diamond sites too and I'd rather look at in person before having my SO drop a bomb on it. I've been trying to look for specs of HW diamonds so I could buy an equivalent one and just have it set by VC, but nothing has come up so far...

If anyone could contribute anything, I'd appreciate it so much. Even something as simple as, "check out x jeweler in downtown" would be awesome. Thanks guys! Looking forward.

Just out of interest, do HW provide GIA certificates for their stones? It would be interesting to see their cut parameters.

 

[autumnxxa]

Just out of interest, do HW provide GIA certificates for their stones? It would be interesting to see their cut parameters.

I'm sure they do, but we haven't demanded it as we're in our verrryyyyy early stages of shopping.

I did a quick search and came up with this... https://www.idonowidont.com/diamond...-diamond-engagement-ring-micropave-platinum-1 not sure if that helps!

 

[autumnxxa]

It's all about the lighting. I'd take a ring made by Victor Canera any day over HW and would end up with a larger diamond of equal to likely better quality. I'd say the same about Whiteflash diamonds, and I have had a few of them.

Sparkly diamonds = cut, lighting, and the diamond being spotlessly clean

The rational being that I am... I've been looking on Whiteflash and BGD, although a lot of people here seem to prefer Whiteflash.