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HELP What do you think of the Following Diamond ?

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Carlosthejakal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
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26
Hi all,
I am due to go to Antwerp on Monday to buy a diamond ( alot more expensive her in Ireland )
I have appointments set up and have asked for details on all diamonds before I leave.

What do you think of this ????

Cut Round Brilliant
Carat 1.52
Colour D
Clarity VS2
Cut Grade Excellent
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Very Good

Measurements 7.23 - 7.27 x 4.56
Table 55%
Crown Height 36 Degrees
Pavillion Depth 40.3 Degrees
Girdle Medium - Slightly Thick
Cutlet Pointed
Flourescence Very Slight

Oh and the Cert is from IGI , thant and HRD are pretty common here

Thanks
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Welcome


This diamond could well be considered a FIC ( firey ideal cut.) This means that the diamond could display a great amount of coloured light or fire in certain lighting conditions. You can do a search for this for more info. HRD are a good grading lab by all accounts, IGI are said to be softer on grading by some. If you want to buy this diamond, I assume a D colour matters to you? Get an independant appraisal to make sure the colour and clarity check out. Otherwise you can drop the colour considerably and still have a very white looking diamond.
 

Carlosthejakal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
26
Thanks ,
Knowledge can be a bad thing !

I started looking at engagement rings in January learnt a little looked some more learnt a little more.
Discovered Gary''s Site about 4 weeks ago as recommended by a jeweller here and have gone mad
looking at everything from a fresh perspective.

The same kind of stone here is about € 29000 ( $39000 US )
Its only € 12500 - $ 17000US in Antwerp
 

kcoursolle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
10,589
Not loving the crown angle, it''s too high. Also, IGI is not a very respected cert around here. I''d stick to AGS and GIA if you want a stone with specifics that match the cert.
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 4/19/2007 1:08:41 PM
Author:Carlosthejakal
Hi all,
I am due to go to Antwerp on Monday to buy a diamond ( alot more expensive her in Ireland )
I have appointments set up and have asked for details on all diamonds before I leave.

What do you think of this ????

Cut Round Brilliant
Carat 1.52
Colour D
Clarity VS2
Cut Grade Excellent
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Very Good

Measurements 7.23 - 7.27 x 4.56
Table 55%
Crown Height 36 Degrees
Pavillion Depth 40.3 Degrees
Girdle Medium - Slightly Thick
Cutlet Pointed
Flourescence Very Slight

Oh and the Cert is from IGI , thant and HRD are pretty common here

Thanks
The depth works out to 63%, so it faces up a bit small. At 61% a 1.50 ct Tolkowsky will spread 7.40mm.

The pavilion is slightly shallow (40.3 is < the near-Tolkowsky makes we usually see here) and the 36 crown is close to being steep. They offset each other in a positive way. Knowing the LGF% would be somewhat helpful here. An ideal-scope image would be most helpful.

The cut grade was assigned by IGI, I presume? The GIA would give this a VG in cut (pending minor facets & brillianteering info). AGS manufacturing guidelines predict it as AGS1 (again, pending a few unknowns). It's not at the center of the 'we all agree' bullseye, but it's not likely to be a dog either. Lady Lorelei nailed it...with that c/p/t combo it's an interesting candidate just outside the 'near-Tolkowsky' zone which could have a lot of fire in its performance.

On color and clarity; the IGI has a better reputation abroad than in the US, but I would also encourage you to compare it to D/VS2s that were graded by GIA/AGS/HRD.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/19/2007 6:46:59 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 4/19/2007 1:08:41 PM
Author:Carlosthejakal
Hi all,
I am due to go to Antwerp on Monday to buy a diamond ( alot more expensive her in Ireland )
I have appointments set up and have asked for details on all diamonds before I leave.

What do you think of this ????

Cut Round Brilliant
Carat 1.52
Colour D
Clarity VS2
Cut Grade Excellent
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Very Good

Measurements 7.23 - 7.27 x 4.56
Table 55%
Crown Height 36 Degrees
Pavillion Depth 40.3 Degrees
Girdle Medium - Slightly Thick
Cutlet Pointed
Flourescence Very Slight

Oh and the Cert is from IGI , thant and HRD are pretty common here

Thanks
The depth works out to 63%, so it faces up a bit small. At 61% a 1.50 ct Tolkowsky will spread 7.40mm.

The pavilion is slightly shallow (40.3 is < the near-Tolkowsky makes we usually see here) and the 36 crown is close to being steep. They offset each other in a positive way. Knowing the LGF% would be somewhat helpful here. An ideal-scope image would be most helpful.

The cut grade was assigned by IGI, I presume? The GIA would give this a VG in cut (pending minor facets & brillianteering info). AGS manufacturing guidelines predict it as AGS1 (again, pending a few unknowns). It''s not at the center of the ''we all agree'' bullseye, but it''s not likely to be a dog either. Lady Lorelei nailed it...with that c/p/t combo it''s an interesting candidate just outside the ''near-Tolkowsky'' zone which could have a lot of fire in its performance.

On color and clarity; the IGI has a better reputation abroad than in the US, but I would also encourage you to compare it to D/VS2s that were graded by GIA/AGS/HRD.
Thank you Sir John, as you say, it isn''t an obvious one for predicted performance that we like around here, but it could be a nice propositon as an FIC on it''s own merits with the steep crown angle and corresponding pav angle, and worthy of consideration for those attributes.
 

Carlosthejakal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
26
Thanks for your comments, will compare it to a D VS2 HRD. Cert is by IGI Antwerp.
So guys if you were me would you pass on this stone ??

AGS is non existant here. GIA, HRD, IGI is what seem to be the norm & I have been everywhere looking.

Have another diamond appointment today. It will be my first time using an idealscope so looking forward to seeing it with my own eyes.
Hopefully this guy has something really nice , he also has made an appointment to see one of his collegues in Antwerp.

Will let you know how I get on
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
The diamond you mention is sought after by those who love FIC's, the numbers put it into that category or close to it. Don't discount it but see what your eyes tell you, these diamonds often have a special richness that others may not have, check it out in as many different lights as possible to see if this is the one for you. Compare to one with more traditional numbers such as

depth 60 - 62%
table 54- 57%
crown angle - 34.4 34.8
pavillion angle - 40.5 - 40.9

These numbers will give you a rough guide. Compare the two and see what you think, the FIC will perform differently to the traditional ideal cut, but see what your eyes tell you, they won't steer you wrong. Look at as many diamonds as possible then see which ones speak to you. If I was looking for a FIC I would definitely consider the one you posted, but you might prefer the other type of cut. Also as my friend Sir John who is an expert thinks this diamond may be worth seeing at least, I would do so. Use your eyes. Also if you purchase with an IGI report, get that appraisal to make sure it checks out.
 

Carlosthejakal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
26
Just back from another diamond viewing, my last before i go to Antwerp.
Nice guy, had good examples of :
Different colour grades
VS2 compared to SI2
VS2 HRD Very Good Cut compared to GEMEX Very Good

Also got to use his version of the Idealscope
He even gave me one to take home and keep.
Its a little different to Garys one but still showed the harts and arrows very nicely
I have attached 2 pictures of it i took on my phone what do you guys think ?
Its Real etched glass on the top and polished metal on the bottom.

IMAGE_140.jpg
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 4/20/2007 4:47:43 AM
Author: Carlosthejakal

Thanks for your comments, will compare it to a D VS2 HRD. Cert is by IGI Antwerp.
So guys if you were me would you pass on this stone ??

AGS is non existant here. GIA, HRD, IGI is what seem to be the norm & I have been everywhere looking.

Have another diamond appointment today. It will be my first time using an idealscope so looking forward to seeing it with my own eyes.
Hopefully this guy has something really nice , he also has made an appointment to see one of his collegues in Antwerp.

Will let you know how I get on
Not necessarily...but we''re not you.


The diamond is priced well because it''s a bit outside the univerally ''agreed-upon'' cut bullseye and, though it is D-VS, it was graded by IGI; not universally known for strictness.

Is it worth a look? Yes - if you know what you''re looking for.

+ Have you seen an abundance of rounds of different ''makes'' (Near-Tolk, 60/60, shallow, steep, etc.)?
+ If so - do you recognize the separate appealing characteristics of the different makes and can you identify top performers on-sight?
+ If not - are you comfortable dismissing the above and making a spontaneous sight-based decision?

Some people just like to know their measurements are inside a bonafide range. It''s part of being comfortable with a big purchase. Others are not so concerned with the measurements, they just want a diamond that speaks to them. There is no way for us to be decisive from afar...the reason an ideal-scope photo would be helpful is because we could say ''ah, yes this has top light return - now you need to see if it''s to your taste.''

Whatever you choose, I encourage you to have short-term options (the ability to return the diamond within a certain number of days) as well as long-term (a strong exchange or trade-up program). Let us know how it goes.
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 4/20/2007 11:33:44 AM
Author: Carlosthejakal
Just back from another diamond viewing, my last before i go to Antwerp.
Nice guy, had good examples of :
Different colour grades
VS2 compared to SI2
VS2 HRD Very Good Cut compared to GEMEX Very Good

Also got to use his version of the Idealscope
He even gave me one to take home and keep.
Its a little different to Garys one but still showed the harts and arrows very nicely
I have attached 2 pictures of it i took on my phone what do you guys think ?
Its Real etched glass on the top and polished metal on the bottom.
That is a nice gift, but it's not an ideal-scope and the difference is important.

That is a mini hearts & arrows viewer. It will show optical symmetry (precision of cut / patterning) but reveals nothing about the diamond's light return, which is far more important. The ideal-scope and ASET do show light return.

Carlos, if you have time, perhaps this seminar on the different reflectors (H&A viewer, ideal-scope, ASET) will be helpful?

http://vyou.pricescope.com/player.aspx?recID=990b4282-d6e7-4f1d-bbf1-889cf99a7819

PS: What phone are you using if you don't mind? Great photo.
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Date: 4/20/2007 11:33:44 AM
Author: Carlosthejakal

Also got to use his version of the Idealscope
He even gave me one to take home and keep.
Its a little different to Garys one but still showed the harts and arrows very nicely
Wish I had one, too.

But, that''s almost certainly, and as you''re describing it, a H&A viewer, different in function than Garry''s Idealscope. The IS is designed to show light performance, the H&A viewer shows symmetry...neither is designed to be mutually exclusive or inclusive of the other...though surely there''ll be some sort of statistical correlation between the two...that I bet is positive!
 

Carlosthejakal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
26
Thanks for all the info John,
My phone is a HTC Tytn, picture taken was set at macro 640 x 480 web size
Its does upto 2 megapixels.
Best phone I have ever had email, internet, wifi, 2gb storage card

I know more about gadgets than diamonds !

Carlos
 

JohnQuixote

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
5,212
Date: 4/20/2007 12:05:09 PM
Author: Carlosthejakal
Thanks for all the info John,
My phone is a HTC Tytn, picture taken was set at macro 640 x 480 web size
Its does upto 2 megapixels.
Best phone I have ever had email, internet, wifi, 2gb storage card

I know more about gadgets than diamonds !

Carlos
I looked it up - my network doesn't support it.


You have access to some cool tools across the pond. Maybe I can open a London office.
 
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