Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose :-)

[skingsland]

First post!

Hi, my name's Steve; I've been reading the Colored Stones forum off and on for the last few months, as part of my quest to find the perfect blue sapphire engagement ring so that I can propose to my girlfriend (of 5+ years ).

At first I felt pretty overwhelmed because I knew nothing about gems, and finding a colored precious stone seems even harder than finding a diamond e-ring because you can't go to a local jewelry shop and see tons of different kinds. But I've slowly been figuring out what do (pick the stone, get ideas for the setting, find a good jeweler to put them together, etc.) and now I'm ready to ask for your help in the first step: Finding the right sapphire.

So here's what I think I'm looking for:

• color/clarity: vivid, deep, vibrant, sparkly blue; no extinction, no secondary colors, eye clean or better (prefer no inclusions)
  
• cut: so far I prefer round, cushion or princess; would also consider oval, radiant and asscher. Excellent or Very Good.
  
• size: her ring size is 4.5, and the 1 direction she's given me is "not too big"; so I'd say maybe 6mm as a starting point?
  
• treatments: personally, I'm OK with heated (mostly because it gives me more options in finding the right stone). But I don't want any other treatments.
  
• budget: I'm comfortable spending anywhere from $5K to $15K on the whole ring, of which I'd expect 80 or 90% to go to the stone.

I've collected pictures of different sapphires that I really like; can you please take a look at these, and let me know what you think and where I can get a stone like this? I'm cool with using any of the guys that get mentioned on here (Jeff White, Richard Horner, Wildfish, RW Wise, etc.).

Thanks in advance for your help!! -Steve


arjunajane's:



DiannaBanana's:



Horner 6.7 mm brilliant sapphire:

Jeff White 6.9 mm:

Jeff White 7.6 mm:

Jeff White 7.3 mm:

marcyc's:



Angara ring (LOVE this shade of blue):

Don't remember how I found this one; love all the light reflecting from it:



Widget's unheated Burmese sapphire (the color is great; if I could combine the blue from this with the sparkliness of the one above, I'd be in heaven!):



Pendant from Wink; I just think the color is really beautiful:

 

[E B]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Hi Steve!

The third photo from the bottom looks like a Concave Gem. Here's a link to his selection of Sapphires (the blues are at the bottom):

http://www.webgraphicsengineering.com/Gemstones/query3.cfm?yVarieties=All&ySpecies=Corundum

ETA: Oops! I missed that you've already found Concave Gems.

 

[Harriet]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Hi Steve,

Take a look at: www.mc2jewels.com They can deliver the complete package -- gemmy gem + setting. They are especially strong on sapphires.

P.S. I love the colour of Widget's.

 

[jstarfireb]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

It sounds like what you're really looking for is a concave cut stone. I was going to suggest Richard Homer, but it looks like you've already found him. If you don't like any of the ones on his site right now, you could ask him to cut something for you.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

It looks like, from your pictures, that you want Jeff White. Have you emailed him yet?

 

[stepcutgirl]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I got mine from Jeff White. Most of those you listed above are his. He cut the one in my avatar....it's stunning and if I had to do it all over again I'd choose him again! He is super nice and the prices weren't nearly as high as I'd guessed they would be. If you do contact him don't give up if he doesn't email back right away, sometimes it takes a day or two for him to respond.

Good luck!

 

[T L]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Just to note, sapphires tend to lose saturation under certain lighting conditions. Although you may see some colors you like, and you picked lots of great examples, it is important to ask the vendor, or see additional photos, under fluorescent, daylight and incandescent lighting.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Looks like you know exactly what you want and have the budget for it. At this point, it’s time to “move on” to see these gems in person. Have you contacted any of the aforementioned vendors?

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Thanks for your feedback everyone!!

No, I have not contacted any vendors yet. So far I've just been taking notes, bookmarking sapphires and settings that I like, and trying to converge on enough specifics so that I can start working with a jeweler.

I did not realize as I was collecting these pictures that most of them came from Jeff White! I wonder if that's just coincidence, because I only searched back a year or so on here, and maybe a lot of recent PS purchases in that time have come from him? Or maybe he just specializes in the type of sapphire I'm looking for. My impression is that all these guys -- JW, Horner, Wise, etc. have a LOT more gems available to them than they show on their sites. So then how do I choose which guy to use? Or do I shoot off emails to all of them?

For now I'll send an email to Jeff White, and see what he says. I guess my biggest concern was that I didn't want to waste anyone's time if I didn't have enough specifics for a vendor to work with. (but it seems like the consensus in this thread is that I'm good)

Thanks again, I'll let you know what I found out!

-Steve

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I got mine from Jeff White. Most of those you listed above are his. He cut the one in my avatar....it's stunning and if I had to do it all over again I'd choose him again! He is super nice and the prices weren't nearly as high as I'd guessed they would be. If you do contact him don't give up if he doesn't email back right away, sometimes it takes a day or two for him to respond.

Good luck!

Thanks, I like yours a lot. I think it's very close to what I'm looking for!

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

One more quick question: for a 4.5 ring size, what's a good stone size that won't seem too big? 6mm? 5.5mm?

Or does it depend on the setting?

 

[stepcutgirl]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Just to note, sapphires tend to lose saturation under certain lighting conditions. Although you may see some colors you like, and you picked lots of great examples, it is important to ask the vendor, or see additional photos, under fluorescent, daylight and incandescent lighting.

Ditto this. the color the stone is in my avatar is the color the stone is in strong shaded sunlight. In most any shaded light its beautiful and you can see the arrows and faceting and it makes me fall in love with it over and over again. In indoor light however, its a slightly different color. I specifically asked for one that wouldn't go purple in indoor lighting, most sapphire do go slightly purple. Mine indoors looks a different shade of blue. It took some getting used to as the color of my avatar is what I fell for. But now I do love all of it's different "personalities".

If I'm correct the only sapphires that don't have any shift at all are sleepy Kashmir's.

 

[stepcutgirl]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

One more quick question: for a 4.5 ring size, what's a good stone size that won't seem too big? 6mm? 5.5mm?

Or does it depend on the setting?

Size of a stone is subjective. What one person thinks is perfect another might think too big or too small. I wear a size 7.5 ring and my stone is 7.3mm's. I'll post a hand shot so you can see how much finger space just the sapphire takes up.
ETA-don't pay attention to the color of the sapphire here. This picture was distorted from resizing it so much.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

You are correct in your observation that many PSers have purchased recut blue sapphires from JW in the past year or so. These were native cut stones that Jeff selected as the best candidate for recuts into precision cut stones. Because coloured gemstones cannot be “ordered” by specifications, it is best to contact all the vendors mentioned to let them know exactly what you are looking for. Some might have a contender or two, while others may have nothing suitable. SCG made a good point about blue sapphires being notorious shifters. Many will shift from indoors to outdoors, with the best colouring when viewed under strong diffused (shaded) sunlight. As for size, it is all relative. Although I have a size 4.5 finger, I find 6.5 mm to be too small. I prefer my stones to be at least 8 mm, with 10 mm being my sweet spot. I started out with stones around 6 mm initially but after several years, the stones seemed to “shrink” and I now feel very comfortable wearing 8 mm stones on a regular basis.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

congrats on your pending engagement! and as you can tell from the recent posts, there has been a LOT of interest by others as well re blue sapphires.

i agree with chrono that its time to talk to vendors and/or see as many stones in person as possible. pictures just are not the way to buy a stone. and as she also stated, you have a nice budget to work with.....expect to be at the upper end of that budget for the stone alone.

i would also say that i don't think there is any such thing as too large a stone...even for an e-ring. if it is going to be set simply as a solitaire then bigger is better, imo, assuming it is also every thing re cut and color that you want. many women as indicated in the picture above have 3 stone rings which cover the width of their finger. therefore, why not a solitaire of good size? personally, i dislike seeing small stones on a finger.....

again, congrats! you've certainly selected some fine examples to show vendors.

mz

ps i have not seen any other concave come close to what homer cuts........others may have, but i haven't.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

OK, I just shot off a couple quick emails to Jeff and Richard Horner to get the ball rolling.

As for the ring size issue, I'm thinking of a 3 stone ring, with accent diamonds (like trillians or solitaires or something) on the side. Here's a few examples (I haven't spent much time yet looking at settings, though):

Thanks again for your suggestions and help.

-Steve

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

you're doing great research, steve! i'm not sure you need us......do you have any idea of what type of settings she likes? remember: you're pleasing her, not us.

mz

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

you're doing great research, steve! i'm not sure you need us......do you have any idea of what type of settings she likes? remember: you're pleasing her, not us.

mz

I have absolutely no idea what type of setting she wants, so I'm just going with what I like, combined with what I know about her personality:

• Nothing too flashy or "bling-y"
• Nothing too large
• Nothing too intricate or ornate (within reason)

I'm not actually sure about the last one, though. So I'm going for something medium in size (relative to the size of her finger), but on the high end of the quality/construction/wow scale. So I guess quality, not quantity... but that's probably what every guy thinks when he's shopping for a tiny little stone that costs thousands of dollars!

-Steve

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Steve,
I’d hold off on the setting for now until you’ve found the right stone because you just don’t know what shape you’ll end up with, much less the final dimensions of the sapphire. There’s no need to add another element of difficulty by limiting your search to a specific shape and measurement for now. It is difficult enough to find the right blue spphire.

 

[movie zombie]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Steve,
I’d hold off on the setting for now until you’ve found the right stone because you just don’t know what shape you’ll end up with, much less the final dimensions of the sapphire. There’s no need to add another element of difficulty by limiting your search to a specific shape and measurement for now. It is difficult enough to find the right blue spphire.

great advice.

mz

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I've been exchanging emails with both Jeff White and Richard Homer. Both have been helpful with offering advice, and they both seem very interested in working with me to find the right sapphire. I haven't gotten any pictures from Jeff yet, but here is what Richard sent me, that he cut over the weekend:





And here is what he suggested for me, from his website:

I can post his descriptions of the gems here if you want, but I'm curious: which ones do you folks like the best? Because they all look like great sapphires to me. I'm not sure how much I could actually narrow it down without seeing them in person.

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

The background is very dark so I’m inclined to believe the stone might be brighter in person. Have you asked Richard his opinion and description of the colour of that particular sapphire?

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Oh, and one more note, about the sizing: I'm really struggling to figure out how big to make this thing. Based on my gf's smallish fingers (size 4 1/2; the jeweler said maybe 4 1/4), and the fact that her 1 contribution, other than suggesting I look at sapphires, was "not too big", I started with the range 5.5 to 6.5mm.

I know this is extremely subjective, but I don't even feel like I've got a good starting point. Is there any way to find out the "average" gem size for a given ring size? (e.g. if the avg size 4.5 e-ring has a 6.7mm sapphire, then that would at least give me a sense).

OR, what would be cool is if there were some site where it would show me a size 4.5 ring finger, and let me super-impose different size sapphires onto it...

I'm trying to honor my girlfriend's wishes, without involving her in the details of the decision making process, so it will still be a surprise when I propose. Any advice you folks have on this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Steve

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Steve,
Some women’s finger size fluctuate a little based on the time of day, time of month or even time of the year. It is quite safe to have it 4 ½ as the wedding band will hold it “in” if it feels to big later on. As always, it is safer to go a little larger than struggle to wear/remove if it is too tight. Do not worry about “average” size as this differs based on the lady’s profession, comfort and where she lives. For example, stones in Europe are generally smaller than in the US, and the East & West coast tend to have larger stones than the more conservative South. I have a size 4.5 finger and have sported many different size stones. Give me a little time to pull these pictures together.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Steve,
Some women’s finger size fluctuate a little based on the time of day, time of month or even time of the year. It is quite safe to have it 4 ½ as the wedding band will hold it “in” if it feels to big later on. As always, it is safer to go a little larger than struggle to wear/remove if it is too tight. Do not worry about “average” size as this differs based on the lady’s profession, comfort and where she lives. For example, stones in Europe are generally smaller than in the US, and the East & West coast tend to have larger stones than the more conservative South. I have a size 4.5 finger and have sported many different size stones. Give me a little time to pull these pictures together.

Thanks Chrono!

For the ring size, I'm definitely going with 4.5.

For the gem size, I think it would help me a lot to see hand shots with different size gems on a size 4.5 (or 4, or 5, etc.) finger. I think I'll "know when I see it"; something will just look too big, or too small, and I'll be able to narrow it down from there. It's just tough because I don't have anything to start with... if it were a diamond I'd probably just say 1.5-2.5 cts because that's what my friends have generally done, but I know that doesn't translate well into precious-gem-land.

Oh, and I asked Richard to clarify some of his descriptions for the gems he sent me; I'll post when I hear back from him. Was there 1 in particular that you were wondering about with a darker background, or were you referring to all of them?

-Steve

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose


This one is a 6.5 mm octagonal stone on a size 4.5 finger. This is a faraway shot to give a real life perspective of size on the hand.


7 mm cushion cut on a very thin band on the same hand.


An 8x 10 mm oval on a size 4.5 finger.

 

[skingsland]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

One last question, for now: I'm feeling at a bit of a loss, because I haven't had the chance to look at many sapphires in person yet. I've been to half a dozen jewelry stores, but none of them had more than a few different sapphires in stock. Is there a good place in the washington, dc area where I can go to see a bunch of sapphires (like NSC in NYC)? Are gem shows a good bet?

Thanks!

 

[chrono]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

Steve,
If it were a 1.5 to 2.5 ct diamond, then you will be looking for a stone around 7 mm to 8 mm, which translates to a sapphire of 2 ct to 3 ct. Does that help? I noticed that most of Richards’ photography of gems are against a dark background which makes it challenging to gauge the true colour.

ETA
You are correct that most jewellery stores do not carry a good selection of coloured gemstones in general because of saleability; in short, colourless diamonds are the bulk of their sales. To see a greater quantity of fine quality sapphires, I would only attend the bigger gem shows.

 

[velouriaL]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I am going to go against the grain here and recommend that your idea of about 6.5mm is about right. Us PS girls love our big rocks, but I honestly think that, in the "real world" (lol) a lot of people honestly do prefer a smaller stone. And it's kinda crazy to even consider something that size "smaller"! If I were doing an e-ring for myself right now, something I'd wear everyday, I'd want it to be about the same size of a 1.5 ct diamond on my size 7.25 fingers. If my fingers were smaller, I'd go for closer to the size of a 1 ct diamond. I just think that it's more comfortable.

Also, fwiw, I think that when people see a *huge* colored stone, they assume it's much less valuable than a diamond, but if they see a beautifully colored, ample-but-not-gigantic-sized colored stone, they assume parity. I don't know how important that is you and your gf, but it's something to keep in mind. Just saying.

Of course, as everyone said, it's not about us, it's about her!

I'm also going to suggest another possible way of going about your project... Instead of starting with the stone, you might want to take a look a few different custom jewelers (Leon Mege, James Meyer, Mark Morrell and definitely www.mc2jewels.com as Harriet suggested might be good places to start) and see if you fall in love with a particular style. Your budget is pretty healthy, so I think having a ring crafted just for you is the best way to go. Sometimes the jeweler will be able to source great stones and at better prices than if you supply your own.

 

[E B]

Re: Help wanted: finding a Sapphire e-ring so I can propose

I totally agree with Velouria. If that 6.6mm from Richard Homer is stunning in person, I think it'd be a great size. Not too big, but not too small.