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Help w/ Round Search; Which one would you choose?

solitairepave

Rough_Rock
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Jan 5, 2020
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5
My significant other and I are ring shopping together and hope to find a quality 1+ carat round diamond within budget. We value quality over size. We viewed the Tiffany Novo Round Brilliant Engagement Ring with a Pavé Diamond Platinum Band in person and were happy with a 1.17 carat, H, VS2, however the $17k price tag was over our budget (<$15k). We also realize that Tiffany is going to be a much higher price tag than other vendors. We've been able to find very similar rings on Blue Nile, however we still don't fully understand all of the intricacies associated with diamonds. For example, the two diamonds below are the same carat size and color, but there is a ~$3k price difference. The Adiamor diamond appears to have a higher clarity rating and a good HCA, but it is the cheaper option; why would that be? Which one would you select or would you pass on both and continue looking? Any insight is appreciated!


 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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18,235
Welcome to PS! Its overwhelming at first to learn all the info about stones. Great that you started looking via PS search, as that makes it easy to filter by color, weight, and HCA.

The adiamor option is a 60/60 style diamond, which is different than the traditional 'ideal cut' that we recommend. You can read up on the differences between these two types of stones and see what you think.

Is your budget 15k for the stone+setting+band? Or just stone + setting? I ask because platinum settings are expensive, so I want to make sure I'm only recommending stones that will work with your total budget.
 

solitairepave

Rough_Rock
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Jan 5, 2020
Messages
5
Welcome to PS! Its overwhelming at first to learn all the info about stones. Great that you started looking via PS search, as that makes it easy to filter by color, weight, and HCA.

The adiamor option is a 60/60 style diamond, which is different than the traditional 'ideal cut' that we recommend. You can read up on the differences between these two types of stones and see what you think.

Is your budget 15k for the stone+setting+band? Or just stone + setting? I ask because platinum settings are expensive, so I want to make sure I'm only recommending stones that will work with your total budget.

Thank you so much! I will read up on those differences now. The 15k budget would be for stone+setting. Thank you again!
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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18,235
The vendors I typically recommend when people have a large budget are 'super ideal' vendors that have in house stones (meaning they can help you choose between them, send pics, etc, and have great customer service). Those vendors are: whiteflash and high performance diamonds. Brian gavin also has ideal cut stones in house.

That said, if I'm looking for H and above, and eye clean stones in budget, whiteflash has this one (and a ton of others):


I am a size hoe :) so I'll typically go for the biggest eye clean stone that is within the color range, but of course they have slightly smaller stones that are G and up (like this one https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4187456.htm).

Honestly if I were you, I would call WF or HP diamonds (maybe look at each ones website and settings to figure out who you prefer, and have them send you pics of a few stones they recommend. That way your eyes can decide and you'll be getting the best of the best in terms of both cut and customer service.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Just stumbled across an old thread discussing novo style settings and found this from Brian gavin.


It's beautiful! So I might change my recommendation and tell you to call them instead since they have such a nice setting in that style.

Possible stone from brian gavin
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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To get a platinum setting with pave, I think you should set aside $2.5 to $3k of your budget for the setting. This will leave you around $12-12.5k for the diamond only.

How important is the setting to match the inspiration? Some people it has to match exactly. Others just want it reasonably close. As you begin to search alternates you will likely see small differences.

For that reason I am posting link and screen cap of the original Tiffany Novo for reference. Key take aways: platinum, pave, cathedral with basket and donut and 4 standard prongs.



CaptureSide.PNG

CaptureTop.PNG


Victor Canera (VC) is one vendor that is known for his beautiful settings. There are a few designs that are similar to the Novo. Also VC offers super ideal cut stones, and when you purchase a stone and setting from him together, you get a discount on the setting.

Here's one option:

Very similar, but would need to ask VC to add same style/size of pave. Shouldn't be an issue, as his work is custom hand forged anyhow. Also, you'd likely want to change the double claw prongs to either single claws or single normal prongs, depending on your/her preference.
1578252669664.png
1578252693361.png


Another VC option:

Basically the same as above but with a scalloped basket and diamonds in the basket. Again, if you don't like the plain shank, you'd want to add pave as noted above. And you would likely want to change the prong types.

1578252830591.png

Another popular super ideal vendor on this forum is High Performance Diamonds (HPD). They offer both super ideal stones and settings as well. I am particularly fond of one of their settings called Symphonie. It's similar, but not a replica, of the Novo. What I like is it gives you 6 prongs as opposed to 4. This adds additional security and helps keep a round stone looking round (as sometimes 4 prongs make a round stone look a little squarish).


CaptureSymphonie.PNG

CaptureSymphonieSide.PNG
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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My other post was growing too long, but I also wanted to understand how important a potential future upgrade might be to you and her?

The reason I ask is simple. Each vendor has slightly different restrictions. WF, HPD and VC allow you to upgrade to a new stone of equal or greater value with no other conditions. HPD has even recently started allowing customers to trade in 1 big stone for 2 smaller stones of equal or greater value, and to my knowledge is the only vendor that allows such flexibility. HPD also offers a unique 80% lifetime buyback program, which is very unique.

Having no restrictions is the goal.

I bought my wife's stone from BGD, and I have much respect for them and their quality. The one thing that bugs me a little now (didn't when I bought) is that to upgrade I must spend at least $1 more but I also have to upgrade 2 of the following 3 C's: carat weight, color or clarity. So while still superior than most vendors, BGD doesn't allow as much flexibility as WF, HPD or VC.

Also, you should consider inventory levels and availability. WF probably carries the most inventory of any of the super ideal vendors, so upgrading to larger and larger sizes (harder to find) and different color and clarity combos is easier.

Obviously this isn't the only factor in choosing a vendor, but if upgrades are important then you should become familiar with the intricacies of each vendor so it's the best fit for you.
 

solitairepave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
5
Just stumbled across an old thread discussing novo style settings and found this from Brian gavin.


It's beautiful! So I might change my recommendation and tell you to call them instead since they have such a nice setting in that style.

Possible stone from brian gavin

Thank you so much! I spent some time reviewing BGD yesterday morning and was very impressed, but it appears their site is now down for maintenance. Anxiously awaiting its return!
 

solitairepave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
5
My other post was growing too long, but I also wanted to understand how important a potential future upgrade might be to you and her?

The reason I ask is simple. Each vendor has slightly different restrictions. WF, HPD and VC allow you to upgrade to a new stone of equal or greater value with no other conditions. HPD has even recently started allowing customers to trade in 1 big stone for 2 smaller stones of equal or greater value, and to my knowledge is the only vendor that allows such flexibility. HPD also offers a unique 80% lifetime buyback program, which is very unique.

Having no restrictions is the goal.

I bought my wife's stone from BGD, and I have much respect for them and their quality. The one thing that bugs me a little now (didn't when I bought) is that to upgrade I must spend at least $1 more but I also have to upgrade 2 of the following 3 C's: carat weight, color or clarity. So while still superior than most vendors, BGD doesn't allow as much flexibility as WF, HPD or VC.

Also, you should consider inventory levels and availability. WF probably carries the most inventory of any of the super ideal vendors, so upgrading to larger and larger sizes (harder to find) and different color and clarity combos is easier.

Obviously this isn't the only factor in choosing a vendor, but if upgrades are important then you should become familiar with the intricacies of each vendor so it's the best fit for you.

We are fine with a reasonably close match to the Tiffany setting, definitely don't need it to be exact. Thank you so much for the recommendations! Also, thank you for mentioning the differences in upgrade offerings as that is not something we had considered previously. Checking out your suggestions now!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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5,791

I forgot to comment on these stones.

Stone 1
Definitely worth considering, and has great proportions. Basically a GIA XXX stone with ideal proportions. Nice find!

56 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 75 LGF's and 55 stars

Also, I like the G color and I do like the VVS2 clarity. Although I need to warn you that VVS2 is complete overkill, and if you are trying to get the most bang for the buck then you could probably go down in clarity and up in size or color for the same dollars.

Capture121-3.PNG

Capture121-4.PNG

Stone 2
Not one I'd recommend. Part of the personality difference of a 60/60 style stone is the fact it has a very shallow crown combined with a large table and shallow depth.

59 table, 59.5 depth, 32.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 75 LGF and 45 stars

By the way, if you aren't familar with the term "60/60" it simply means the table and depth both measure 60%, or close to it.

Essentially the carat weight is distributed out in a horizontal direction vs down in depth. This creates a unique advantage -- you get more spread for the carat weight. If you look at the dimensions on each cert, you will see this stone measures out at 6.92 x 6.95mm. Stone 1, which is the same identical carat weight, only measures out at 6.79 x 6.84.

So why is this bad? Well it's not necessarily. But we also have to consider that changing one or elements of the proportions changes everything else and how light enters, bounces around and leaves the diamond.

Stones like this will exhibit more white light return in a pin fire configuration vs the bigger bolder rainbow flashes like stone 1 will likely exhibit. Also, even in 60/60 style stones there are more favorable crown/pavilion combos that yield more lively stones.

What I find deceiving about this stone is it gets a 1.1 HCA, as evidenced below. However, look further at where it is anticipated to land in GIA and AGS grades -- very good and 1 or 2, respectively.

Lastly, the HCA is warning us because of the shallow proportions, the stone may have obstruction (appear dark) when viewed close up.

Without doubt, stone 1 is a much better choice IMO if you want maximum fire -- unless squeezing max spread out of the carat weight is goal.

Capture121-1.PNG


Capture121-2.PNG
 
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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
5,791
If you happen to choose VC, here are some stones I like:


$10,595 wire

Proportions are dreamy -- 56.6 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 76 LGF & 49 stars. Approx 7.00mm spread.

Great bang for the buck. Allows you to up your carat size and stick in G color and get a super ideal stone with H&A symmetry for a little less than the BN option. The "sacrifice" is the clarity grade, but look at the cert and you can see this is a very clean SI1 stone that will be eye clean.


$11,495 wire

More fantastic proportions -- 57 table, 60.8 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 75 LGF & 50 stars. Approx 7.20mm spread.

Unusual to see 75 LGF on an AGS H&A stone. Those are some chunky arrows, which I love. Lower the number, the fatter the arrow and also bigger bolder rainbow flashes. Probably not much difference IRL between 76 and 75 but mentally I'm stoked. Also, this stone is very clean for an SI1 and will be eye clean.

Big take away is you are giving up G for H color, and picking up some extra carat weight that is worth about 0.20mm extra spread.


If you happen to choose HPD, here are a few stones I like:


HPD CBI 1.35ct H SI1 @ $10,544 wire

Love the proportions, especially that small table -- 55.4 table, 61.9 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 77 LGF & 50 stars. Approx 7.10mm spread.


HPD CBI 1.23 E SI2 @ $9,160 wire

No proportions to report, as the stone is still being "crafted". What I do know is that CBI has a very strong reputation for cutting some of the most beautiful stones out there. Do some research on the forum and you will see the proof in the pudding.

But SI2 clarity? Okay, I will explain. Normally I wouldn't recommend this clarity, but with HPD/CBI it's different. They have internal metrics at play and hold themselves accountable at a higher level than the labs normally do. Even with SI2 stones, they guarantee the stones to be eye clean, so it's kind of a risk free thing. Also, this stone is still being "crafted" so that means after it's done being cut it has to be sent to the lab for final grading. If for some reason the stone grades out worse than it's being advertised, they will price adjust and let let you buy, or you can walk on the deal. No strings attached. On the flip side (and this has happened for several buyers) if the stone comes back with a higher grade of color or clarity, they HOLD the pricing as-is and you get the additional bump in grading for free.

I think you can see the win here is the E color for $9k and while the proportions aren't yet published because it hasn't went to the lab yet, a 1.25 G stone is measuring just shy of the 7mm mark so I feel that is a reasonable assumption.

Link to 1.25 G I mentioned:


If you happen to choose WF, here are a few stones I like:


$12,603 wire

57.3 table, 61.6 depth, 34.8 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 77 LGF & 49 stars

Already suggested by @lovedogs and the biggest of all them with a 7.45mm spread. Also, the most expensive, but still a good value overall. Keeps you in H color with VS2 clarity.

FYI, WF has 3 primary product lines: A Cut Above (ACA), Expert Selection (ES) and Premium Select (PS). ACA is their cream of the crop H&A line. ES is a near miss ACA with AGS certification. PS is a near miss ACA with GIA certifications.

This stone is a WF PS, and if you look at the ASET image you will see there is a green mark around the 10 o'clock position that appears to be the reason it missed ACA. This is very minor, but allows you to receive a price discount.


$12,186 wire

55.8 table, 61.9 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 76 LGF and 52 stars

This is an ACA stone and is rather dreamy. This one certainly knows how to do the sparkle bomb dance. Love the F color and gives you 7.20mm spread. Still a great size, just depends if you value color or size more.


$10,883 wire

57 table, 62 depth,34.8 crown, 40.9 pavilion, 77 LGF & 51 stars

A 35/41 combo is not something you will typically see me recommend, but as you can see when you are a super ideal vendor and you focus on details and precision cutting you can sometimes defy the general rules we try to avoid such as pairing a steep crown with a steep pavilion. WF really pulls it off with this stone. It's full of fire and life and is a true H&A stone.

While a little smaller than the 1.581 stone, it still offers a 7.20mm spread and is about $1,500 cheaper. So it may be a little more comfortable on the wallet.


$10,302 wire

56 table, 61.7 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 80 LGF & 50 stars

This one will save you about $500, bump you to VS2 clarity and keep you in H color. Spread is approx 7.15mm. Due to some minor variances in the hearts image, this one doesn't meet ACA criteria and is instead an ES as it also has GIA certification (as opposed to AGS). Still a very solid stone for a great price.
 

natasha-cupcake

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,217
:wavey: @sledge, the 1.23 E SI2 CBI is no longer available. It's been on my finger since early December! The website hasn't been updated, but the OP may want to send out a quick email to HPD to get a heads up regarding any new future stones that might be similar. I love my SI2 and wouldn't hesitate to recommend another SI2 from CBI.
 
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sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,791
:wavey: @sledge, the 1.23 E SI2 CBI is no longer available. It's been on my finger since early December! The website hasn't been updated, but the OP may want to send out a quick email to HPD to get a heads up regarding any new future stones that might be similar. I love my SI2 and wouldn't hesitate to recommend another SI2 from CBI.

That is awesome....congrats on finding a unicorn!!!

I found that awhile back and suggested to a few people. I was surprised to see it still on their site, but it all comes clear now, lol.

Before I initially recommended a month or two, I was "this close" to calling Wink and asking him to take my wife's BGD in on trade for it. But her setting is so unique it would mean a redesign or remake, and the timing wasn't right.

Oddly enough about a year ago we talked and I was about to pull the trigger on a different CBI and then I had a death in the family and had some unexpected funeral costs that wrecked that deal.

Maybe one day, lol.
 

solitairepave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
5
If you happen to choose VC, here are some stones I like:


$10,595 wire

Proportions are dreamy -- 56.6 table, 61.9 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 76 LGF & 49 stars. Approx 7.00mm spread.

Great bang for the buck. Allows you to up your carat size and stick in G color and get a super ideal stone with H&A symmetry for a little less than the BN option. The "sacrifice" is the clarity grade, but look at the cert and you can see this is a very clean SI1 stone that will be eye clean.


$11,495 wire

More fantastic proportions -- 57 table, 60.8 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 75 LGF & 50 stars. Approx 7.20mm spread.

Unusual to see 75 LGF on an AGS H&A stone. Those are some chunky arrows, which I love. Lower the number, the fatter the arrow and also bigger bolder rainbow flashes. Probably not much difference IRL between 76 and 75 but mentally I'm stoked. Also, this stone is very clean for an SI1 and will be eye clean.

Big take away is you are giving up G for H color, and picking up some extra carat weight that is worth about 0.20mm extra spread.


If you happen to choose HPD, here are a few stones I like:


HPD CBI 1.35ct H SI1 @ $10,544 wire

Love the proportions, especially that small table -- 55.4 table, 61.9 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 77 LGF & 50 stars. Approx 7.10mm spread.


HPD CBI 1.23 E SI2 @ $9,160 wire

No proportions to report, as the stone is still being "crafted". What I do know is that CBI has a very strong reputation for cutting some of the most beautiful stones out there. Do some research on the forum and you will see the proof in the pudding.

But SI2 clarity? Okay, I will explain. Normally I wouldn't recommend this clarity, but with HPD/CBI it's different. They have internal metrics at play and hold themselves accountable at a higher level than the labs normally do. Even with SI2 stones, they guarantee the stones to be eye clean, so it's kind of a risk free thing. Also, this stone is still being "crafted" so that means after it's done being cut it has to be sent to the lab for final grading. If for some reason the stone grades out worse than it's being advertised, they will price adjust and let let you buy, or you can walk on the deal. No strings attached. On the flip side (and this has happened for several buyers) if the stone comes back with a higher grade of color or clarity, they HOLD the pricing as-is and you get the additional bump in grading for free.

I think you can see the win here is the E color for $9k and while the proportions aren't yet published because it hasn't went to the lab yet, a 1.25 G stone is measuring just shy of the 7mm mark so I feel that is a reasonable assumption.

Link to 1.25 G I mentioned:


If you happen to choose WF, here are a few stones I like:


$12,603 wire

57.3 table, 61.6 depth, 34.8 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 77 LGF & 49 stars

Already suggested by @lovedogs and the biggest of all them with a 7.45mm spread. Also, the most expensive, but still a good value overall. Keeps you in H color with VS2 clarity.

FYI, WF has 3 primary product lines: A Cut Above (ACA), Expert Selection (ES) and Premium Select (PS). ACA is their cream of the crop H&A line. ES is a near miss ACA with AGS certification. PS is a near miss ACA with GIA certifications.

This stone is a WF PS, and if you look at the ASET image you will see there is a green mark around the 10 o'clock position that appears to be the reason it missed ACA. This is very minor, but allows you to receive a price discount.


$12,186 wire

55.8 table, 61.9 depth, 34.7 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 76 LGF and 52 stars

This is an ACA stone and is rather dreamy. This one certainly knows how to do the sparkle bomb dance. Love the F color and gives you 7.20mm spread. Still a great size, just depends if you value color or size more.


$10,883 wire

57 table, 62 depth,34.8 crown, 40.9 pavilion, 77 LGF & 51 stars

A 35/41 combo is not something you will typically see me recommend, but as you can see when you are a super ideal vendor and you focus on details and precision cutting you can sometimes defy the general rules we try to avoid such as pairing a steep crown with a steep pavilion. WF really pulls it off with this stone. It's full of fire and life and is a true H&A stone.

While a little smaller than the 1.581 stone, it still offers a 7.20mm spread and is about $1,500 cheaper. So it may be a little more comfortable on the wallet.


$10,302 wire

56 table, 61.7 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 80 LGF & 50 stars

This one will save you about $500, bump you to VS2 clarity and keep you in H color. Spread is approx 7.15mm. Due to some minor variances in the hearts image, this one doesn't meet ACA criteria and is instead an ES as it also has GIA certification (as opposed to AGS). Still a very solid stone for a great price.

Your knowledge and recommendations are so appreciated!! We went to a local jeweler today to get a better idea of different colors, etc. in person. Originally I was looking at some I stones, but after today I feel like H or better is where we would be most happy. The VC settings are amazing. We are starting to narrow it down between the VC and WF options. Thank you again for your help!
 

Meghan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
22
This is my Tiffany cushion novo 1.17 E ,vs1 10E44B47-A110-4649-A4D7-0E6265649180.jpeg
 
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