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Help?!? Paraiba Tourmaline ring.. 5.7k worth it?

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
We saw this beautiful ring and are really keen on getting it but unfortunately we don’t know much about paraiba tournamlines and are worried we might get ripped off.
Details as follows:
THREE STONE RING WITH CENTRE PARAIBA TOURMALINE AND DIAMONDS ACCENT STONES. PARAIBA TOURMALINE TEARDROP 1.59CT NEON BLUE DIA, 0.7CT 18KWG, WT 5.4g
Approx 5700 USD
Video
1F9C366B-E4D6-40C7-A91C-AFD0EDE11D2E.jpeg F15F926D-059C-468B-9A04-F7F238C6FAD6.jpeg
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,336
You definitely need a lab certificate. The price difference between blue green tourmaline and Paraiba Tourmaline is vast!
The price is fair IF the Paraiba is certified but it does look as though the Paraiba has a significant window (that’s see through to your skin underneath) and it’s not quite a vivid as some I’ve seen. And for that price I’d like to see the stats on the diamonds as well.
It is a lovely looking ring.
 

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
Yes it does have a cert. but from a local (Singapore) company. I’m not sure about the diamonds have certs though. They are moon shaped diamonds apparantly.
 

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
Apparantly it seems we only get the cert if we purchase. Then they will send it to the lab. Also the paraiba tourmaline is from mozambique
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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11,226
Apparantly it seems we only get the cert if we purchase. Then they will send it to the lab. Also the paraiba tourmaline is from mozambique
So you are forced to pay full price even if the cert comes back that it's not what th vendor says it is? That would be a massive red flag for me. Mozambique copper bearing tourmaline is much cheaper than authentic Brazilian paraiba, but also less bright and neon. I would insist on a cert before giving them money.
 

DauphineMucha

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
300
OP, does it appear to light up from within when viewing under various light settings?

It looks brighter in 1st photo but less so in the 2nd one. Is that what you see too?

Does it turn more greenish under warm light?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
11,226
OP, does it appear to light up from within when viewing under various light settings?

It looks brighter in 1st photo but less so in the 2nd one. Is that what you see too?

Does it turn more greenish under warm light?
If I understand correctly OP doesnt own this piece. They are considering purchasing it, so I assume these photos arent theirs
 

DauphineMucha

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
300
If I understand correctly OP doesnt own this piece. They are considering purchasing it, so I assume these photos arent theirs
I would still ask those questions in additional to the report if I like the ring, imho.

If it doesn’t perform like a PT, might as well get a nice aquamarine, topaz, or zircon...?
 

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
Yes definitely! It was so pretty under all the different lightings I put it under. It was also very brilliant/neon ish under UV.

Yes it looked greenish under some lighting but blueish other though I can’t rmb which was which lighting.
 

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
I would still ask those questions in additional to the report if I like the ring, imho.

If it doesn’t perform like a PT, might as well get a nice aquamarine, topaz, or zircon...?
So the shop also showed us other tourmaline stones but it was clearly quite different. Somehow these other stones she showed were not as brilliant or neon. Pretty sure it’s a paraiba tourmaline....
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,193
Nanyang is pretty good. It doesn't have an international reputation so resale on a nanyang cert may be more difficult. But its local reputation is good and there's a high probability they'll pick up if there is anything wrong (filler, oiled, etc). They'll also note all the inclusions etc and will be able to detect the copper content if it is there. It is common for singaporean stones to only be sent to nanyang once you purchase so nothing anomalous there either.

Many jewelers will also allow you to send to GRS in hong kong. Cost is about 1000 SGD for the shipping plus grs cert.
 

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
Hi alternatively the shop says they can send it to Universal Gemological. Is that any better?
 

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
No Nanyang is the reputable lab of the region. Otherwise insist on the stone going to Bangkok or Hong Kong to the big labs GIA and GRS. But be prepared to wait and to pay. -- this option is quite expensive.
Thanks so much! The shop owner is saying if the cert comes back to say it’s not a PT they will refund us. So I guess that’s good. So nows the final qns of is 5.9k a lot of pay for a PT of that size, shape and colour.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,193
Thanks so much! The shop owner is saying if the cert comes back to say it’s not a PT they will refund us. So I guess that’s good. So nows the final qns of is 5.9k a lot of pay for a PT of that size, shape and colour.
What you need is the cert to come back saying untreated. I don't know if Nanyang will certify it paraiba, they are extremely strict (which is why they have a formidable local reputation). And technically since it comes from mozambique (not brazil) it may just come back designated as copper bearing tourmaline. As there is some debate as to whether the african material should be called after the brazilian state paraiba. This is a technicality though as the brazilian and african material is chemically identical (note people do pay more for the brazilian material though). Ofcourse you need the cert to either say copper bearing tourmaline or paraiba torumaline otherwise you are overpaying as it doesn't have the copper compound (although the flourescence is unmistakable in the photos).

You also need to look at those three (?) prongs on the center stone. I like the way the point is proteceted as this is a slightly chippy material and extremal points naturally experience higher wear and tear and are weaker. But make sure those 3 prongs are secure.

Do remember that copper bearing tourmaline from brazil does command a higher price than copper bearing tourmaline from africa. Having said that a nice 1.6 ct one with good glow is expensive either way (just even more expensive if it is from brazil). Yours looks to have good clarity as well, so it wont be that easy to find another like it for much less.

Singapore's econnomy is not going so well. I would have guessed that this stone was not going to disapear in a hurry. You should look around at others such as yvonne raley designs, paraiba international, desertrosegems, thegemcollector to see ball park prices. Be careful not to accidentally buy heavily treated material which has been filled or oiled for clarity enhancement. Several of these sellers are small instagram dealers and may not offer lab reports as a default option, you should either pass over them or encourage them to get the lab report done if they are sitting somewhere like hong kong.
 
Last edited:

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
What you need is the cert to come back saying untreated. I don't know if Nanyang will certify it paraiba, they are extremely strict (which is why they have a formidable local reputation). And technically since it comes from mozambique (not brazil) it may just come back designated as copper bearing tourmaline. As there is some debate as to whether the african material should be called after the brazilian state paraiba. This is a technicality though as the brazilian and african material is chemically identical (note people do pay more for the brazilian material though). Ofcourse you need the cert to either say copper bearing tourmaline or paraiba torumaline otherwise you are overpaying as it doesn't have the copper compound (although the flourescence is unmistakable in the photos).

You also need to look at those three (?) prongs on the center stone. I like the way the point is proteceted as this is a slightly chippy material and extremal points naturally experience higher wear and tear and are weaker. But make sure those 3 prongs are secure.

Do remember that copper bearing tourmaline from brazil does command a higher price than copper bearing tourmaline from africa. Having said that a nice 1.6 ct one with good glow is expensive either way (just even more expensive if it is from brazil). Yours looks to have good clarity as well, so it wont be that easy to find another like it for much less.

Singapore's econnomy is not going so well. I would have guessed that this stone was not going to disapear in a hurry. You should look around at others such as yvonne raley designs, paraiba international, desertrosegems, thegemcollector to see ball park prices. Be careful not to accidentally buy heavily treated material which has been filled or oiled for clarity enhancement. Several of these sellers are small instagram dealers and may not offer lab reports as a default option, you should either pass over them or encourage them to get the lab report done if they are sitting somewhere like hong kong.
Thanks so much for this super long post full of great advice!
I've seen examples of Nanyang certs and they will state it as a tourmaline but in the notes indicate "this tourmaline is also known as "paraiba tourmaline" which is reasonable I guess since its from Mozambique.

We found another similar stone at another shop at 1.8ct (about 0.2ct bigger than the ring's). It doesn't look as clear in terms of clarity and is heated. To set this in the same setting as the ring we are keen in would be about 300 USD cheaper. I believe the key difference is treatment, size and clarity. Both are nice colours to me. We are not sure which would be a better one to go with.

Here's the comparison (give the same setting). Both without cert till after purchase but will be refunded if the cert comes back to say otherwise:
Option 1: 1.59ct PT
Unheated
Has better clarity
WhatsApp Image 2020-07-12 at 7.20.27 PM.jpeg

Option 2: 1.8ct PT
Heated
More included
Cheaper by 300 USD
728e2ffd-7efd-4dda-9f3d-952f64126ad9.jpg af0f942a-b943-40e1-a438-88fd31497c9b.jpg

Finally, there is one more option but significantly more expensive (and I haven't seen in person yet)

Option 3: 1.76 ct
Heated
Really really good clarity (seems almost eye clean from the video)
More expensive that option 1 by 3.6k
43214b6b-9d5c-4b37-b169-0ef4feb23b4c.jpg
They have a video but Im not able to attach. Looks good though!

Thanks so much for weighing in. Understand that its tough to do so given the lack of information but we kinda are just narrowed down to option 1 or 2 unless option 3 is really spectacular. =)
 

DauphineMucha

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Messages
300
#1 & #3 are more “crisp” while #2 is more “chalky” and less saturated. Wondering if #3 has a bit of grey...strictly based on photos.
 
Last edited:

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
#1 & #3 are more “crisp” while #2 is more “chalky” and less saturated. Wondering if #3 has a bit of grey...strictly based on photos.
lighting plays a big part and unfortunately they are all in different locations so its a little hard to match. 2 is more chalky I feel because its alot more included. Colour wise its feels more greenish than 1. Cant comment on 3 as I only have the video.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,193
Thanks so much for this super long post full of great advice!
I've seen examples of Nanyang certs and they will state it as a tourmaline but in the notes indicate "this tourmaline is also known as "paraiba tourmaline" which is reasonable I guess since its from Mozambique.

We found another similar stone at another shop at 1.8ct (about 0.2ct bigger than the ring's). It doesn't look as clear in terms of clarity and is heated. To set this in the same setting as the ring we are keen in would be about 300 USD cheaper. I believe the key difference is treatment, size and clarity. Both are nice colours to me. We are not sure which would be a better one to go with.

Here's the comparison (give the same setting). Both without cert till after purchase but will be refunded if the cert comes back to say otherwise:
Option 1: 1.59ct PT
Unheated
Has better clarity
WhatsApp Image 2020-07-12 at 7.20.27 PM.jpeg

Option 2: 1.8ct PT
Heated
More included
Cheaper by 300 USD
728e2ffd-7efd-4dda-9f3d-952f64126ad9.jpg af0f942a-b943-40e1-a438-88fd31497c9b.jpg

Finally, there is one more option but significantly more expensive (and I haven't seen in person yet)

Option 3: 1.76 ct
Heated
Really really good clarity (seems almost eye clean from the video)
More expensive that option 1 by 3.6k
43214b6b-9d5c-4b37-b169-0ef4feb23b4c.jpg
They have a video but Im not able to attach. Looks good though!

Thanks so much for weighing in. Understand that its tough to do so given the lack of information but we kinda are just narrowed down to option 1 or 2 unless option 3 is really spectacular. =)
It's kind of personal preference at this stage. But all 3 are a good size, all three are close in size. So you dont gain much there.

Colour is king, so if one is significantly better looking than the others then that may seal the deal.

Untreated really is better than heated.

Good clarity in this material is extremely rare and may come with corollary benefits like making the stone less fragile (obviously you dont want a chip to form and this is a material that's prone to chipping.). Generally high clarity in material which is habitually extremely included is considered valuable. The exception being if it hurts the colour.

I like 3 best its clearly winning. But I'd have gone with 1 for the time being as I dont think it's good to spend everything on one stone for a marginal improvement (as who knows whether you'll realize you really wanted a cushion cut in a years time. Or you're not keen on wearing something like that every day as tourmaline is a slightly less durable stone and now you want a spinel as well. Most of us are slightly fickle so this list of what ifs tends to be interminable). I would have said 2 loses out on the basis of the above criterion. But it's a very personal thing, and there isnt a clear right or wrong.
 

ShulinaOY

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
50
It's kind of personal preference at this stage. But all 3 are a good size, all three are close in size. So you dont gain much there.

Colour is king, so if one is significantly better looking than the others then that may seal the deal.

Untreated really is better than heated.

Good clarity in this material is extremely rare and may come with corollary benefits like making the stone less fragile (obviously you dont want a chip to form and this is a material that's prone to chipping.). Generally high clarity in material which is habitually extremely included is considered valuable. The exception being if it hurts the colour.

I like 3 best its clearly winning. But I'd have gone with 1 for the time being as I dont think it's good to spend everything on one stone for a marginal improvement (as who knows whether you'll realize you really wanted a cushion cut in a years time. Or you're not keen on wearing something like that every day as tourmaline is a slightly less durable stone and now you want a spinel as well. Most of us are slightly fickle so this list of what ifs tends to be interminable). I would have said 2 loses out on the basis of the above criterion. But it's a very personal thing, and there isnt a clear right or wrong.
Indeed! I am liking 3 but I just haven't seen it in person. However just to check regarding the fragility of the stone. For option 1, though not as included and relatively clear, there are obvious some really thin lines (looks kinda like feather) instead across the gem. Would this be a major issue as while I know this isn't as durable as other gems like sapphire or diamonds, I do intend to wear it as a daily ring to work excluding of course doing say rough physical activities such as cleaning, exercising with it.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,193
One more thing you really should properly consider price comparisons just to avoid having doubts later. Can also go see asiatique at lucky plaza they had a Mozambique copper bearing tourmaline necklass for sale last year. It was quite nice in person (their photographs are generally worse than the reality with cool toned stones). They may still have something at the moment -- although I am not sure. I still doubt the stones you are currently considering will vanishing within the next week.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,193
Indeed! I am liking 3 but I just haven't seen it in person. However just to check regarding the fragility of the stone. For option 1, though not as included and relatively clear, there are obvious some really thin lines (looks kinda like feather) instead across the gem. Would this be a major issue as while I know this isn't as durable as other gems like sapphire or diamonds, I do intend to wear it as a daily ring to work excluding of course doing say rough physical activities such as cleaning, exercising with it.
Inclusions are expected. It's hard to say what will happen if you wear it all day every day. I've worn a small stone like this every day for 5 years. I dont clean at all really. But I wear it to the gym all the time and sometimes come out of the class realizing I was pretty cavalier about whacking it into stuff. I louped it the other day and there's no sign of damage.

I think you'll have to be a lot more careful with yours as its bigger and sitting higher up off your finger. Unfortunately as it is a chippy material it's kind of one of those things where you could be fine for years and then one day whack it on something and realize its suddenly damaged.

I would actually anticipate you'll wear this for a while then realize you want another stone to alternate with it (sort of like some people do with shoes they're feeling protective of).
 
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