help! orange sapphire dilemma!

[smmarkle]

I bought a ‘padparadscha’ gem from ebay. . . my first problem, I know. The pictures portrayed a pinkish-orange gem, colored similarly to actual pick champagne. There were many nice, close up pictures and the vendor had a 99.9% rating. I felt good about submitting a ‘best offer' although he did not know whether the gem had been Be diffused or not. I asked him about this and asked him that if I didn’t like the gem color in person or if it turned out to be Be diffused after checking it out I could return it. He said that I have 7 days to decide.

I got the ring today and it is VERY orange. It isn’t just orange, but glows orange too. It is sparkles and glows but I feel like the color is unnatural. I assume that this is one of the Be treated stones, although I have seen websites with similar ones claiming that they have sapphires this color that are natural and unheated. I made a deal and paid $500 for the stone in a 10k white gold setting. I just want to know the approximate value of a Be diffused stone and whether I have been ripped off. It is 1.35 carats. In even my pictures the stone looks a bit pink, but in reality the stone is very orange and only is slightly pink in the shadows, but not in daylight. It is attractive, but not what I thought I was getting. Should I return it?



I though my stone would look similar to this one:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Padparadscha/PA2267/Cushion/stoneid=PA2267

This website has similar stones for $25-150 a piece (Be Diffused): http://www.gemselect.com/group/gemselect.php?page=1&c_9=on&t_4=on

This site has orange sapphires that they claim are natural and not Be Diffused: http://www.africagems.com/orange-sapphire.html

If anyone has any advice for me, I would appreciate it. I think I have learned my lesson about buying from ebay already, so spare me the lecture. If you have any questions, let me know. I would just like to know if you would consider this a Be diffused sapphire or whether this color even occurs naturally. Also, I would like to know how much this gem is worth approximately. Thank you so much!

 

[minousbijoux]

Return it. Its not worth $500, IMO. Its a pretty setting, but its 10k. If the color in your photos is accurate, it looks like it could be an Umba/Songea sapphire from Africa. It looks fairly brownish orange, with what looks like an eye visible black speck inclusion. Be diffused sapphires typically are highly saturated and very bright in color, so from the photos, it actually doesn't look diffused, just not great. One of the experts here can speak to whether Be or lattice diffused stones ever don't look that bright, saturated color.

I am sure you can find a similar setting and get a well cut sapphire from one of the known vendors (listed on the pinned thread at the top of this Colored Stones page) for less than $500. Dana Reynolds of Master Cut Gems seems to have a lot of African sapphires and his prices are very good. There are others we all could suggest if that is the direction you wanted to take, but in the meantime, you should return it. You should not have to settle for something that was different than what was represented. Good luck.

 

[minousbijoux]

On second look, maybe that's not an inclusion.

 

[smmarkle]

Thanks for the advice. Believe me, this thing screams orange. The pictures make it look quite dull actually. I have been examining it with a 30X magnifier and I see some little spots, like flat transparent crystals maybe. The only ‘inclusion’ I have noticed is a light ‘veil’ or flat, wispy line off to the side that actually cuts in to almost half way into the middle. You can’t see it most of the time, but the sunlight caught it today while I was driving and made it apparent. I can’t see any obvious rutile silk, it is pretty fine, just a flat, wispy cloud. This gives me hope that it might not be heated, but I might just be making excuses at this point.
I don’t see any inclusions like the ones in the heated or Be treated sections in this website:
http://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sapphire

But the ‘veil’ kind of looks like this one but much finer and it gets lost in the facets unlike this yellow one:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sapphire+inclusion+veil&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1280&bih=680&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=rAJReXAIKm6mHM:&imgrefurl=http://www.allaboutgemstones.com/_gems_sapphire_yellow_sri-lanka.html&docid=vIdgusytH3oO6M&imgurl=http://www.allaboutgemstones.com/images/sapphire_yellow_sri-lanka_lg_veil.jpg&w=600&h=470&ei=lZ0nT-SRGsTo2AWTtLC-Ag&zoom=1

 

[Pandora II]

You get veils in heated material all the time.

I'd put big money on it being Be diffused if it's the super-bright saturated orange that you say.

A bright orange sapphire is worth $$$ so you won't be picking it up as a bargain. The markets of Thailand are full of the Chinese who are paying very high prices for sapphires right now. So, anything that was as good as a bright orange sapphire would be offered to them rather than on eBay.

Jason at gemselect has very reasonable prices so I would use those as a guide.

To check if the stone is Be diffused is going to cost you best part of $200 by the time you've included shipping, insurance etc. Personally I wouldn't spend the money as the chances of it being the real thing are in the lottery winning range.

 

[chrono]

Initially, I was going to type that it looks like a brownish orange sapphire, but when you wrote that the pictures washed out the true colour, meaning it's a bright screaming orange, then it is most likely to be diffused. The inclusions sound plausible enough for it to be a natural sapphire and those usually remain present even in diffused stones.

Supposing that it is diffused, the stone is likely to be worth in the tens of dollars (well under $50). The setting is only 10K and isn't anything to shout about, so all in all, you probably overpaid for the entire ring. Since you have a 7 day window, I would return it for a full refund. Testing (and shipping the stone back and forth) will take more than a week. Diffusion testing will likely take even longer and cost $200 or so, I think.

 

[LD]

Send it back.

If a vendor says they don't know whether a sapphire has been BE diffused or not and you only have 7 days to decide whether to keep it - knowing you couldn't possibly send to a lab and return it in that timeframe - I would walk away from the deal. Assume BE treatment.

You clearly have concerns about the stone (and I'm going to be honest and say that it's not to my taste) so don't waste your money. Get a refund and spend the money when you find something you want to keep.

Unfortunately you need to ignore feedback ratings on Ebay to a certain extent because many unhappy buyers do not leave negatives. Go with your gut feeling. If the vendor doesn't give you comfort with their replies, walk away. There's always another stone somewhere else that will rock your world.

If you want a Padparadscha, please read through the millions/zillions of threads on this board. It's one colour sapphire that divides opinions all the time but basically a good one (and one you love) will probably set you back a fair amount of money. However, you can buy Padparadscha like sapphires (ie they're not called a Padparadscha but look very much like one), unheated or heated for far less money! Take a look here to see what I mean: http://www.planetarygems.com/rare_gems.htm

 

[T L]

Re: help! orange sapphire dilemma!http://www.pricescope.com

Dislike the stone, but I like the vintage setting. I recently saw one like that sell in the pre-owned jewels forum, and thought, "how nice!"

Pandora is right, by the time you find out it's be diffused, it may cost up to $200. I think they can sometimes diagnostically check for less $$, but most probably it is, in which case, it isn't worth checking at all.

If you like orange gems, get a small spessartite garnet. Some can be pretty orange, and they are untreated.

 

[smmarkle]

Thank you everyone for your comments. There has been another development. I emailed him saying that I didn’t like the ring because it was orange not padparadscha color. He emailed back saying that he sent me the wrong ring. He said he discovered it this morning because someone else was interested in an orange sapphire he has posted and he could only find the padparadscha. This all seems suspicious to me, but I have posted the pictures he took of the original ring. I told him to send me the ring I paid for, but I almost just want to bypass the whole problem and tell him to refund my money. I kind of want him to send me the ring because if I don’t like it, I am only out the shipping cost back to him. Any thoughts on the situation or the pictures of the ‘pad’ I was supposed to get?

 

[chrono]

The colour is too highly saturated to be an untreated stone, unless the picture happens to be inaccurate. It shouts diffused to me. Really, with only 7 days, there's not enough time to get the stone checked out by the lab.

 

[Pandora II]

There is no such thing as a really bargain pad sapphire - the only bargains happen when you buy a sapphire that is not classed as a pad and then a lab grades it as one.

These people have been dealing in stones for thousands of years and they have overseas dealers arriving every single day.They are not going to sell an expensive stone for cheap when they don't need to, especially when you consider the potential hassle for them of postage, customs etc - much easier to sell it to someone who will pay in cash and take it away with them!

The pad he is offering you is almost certainly Be diffused. The first indications of diffused stones was when a large number of orange and pad sapphires hit the market in 2001. It's one of the easiest stones to produce by this method.

The other possibility is a synthetic. The closer you get to source the higher the chances of finding a synthetic - a contact of mine in the industry here was telling me of a Thai dealer who contacted him before xmas about purchasing a large quantity of synthetic corundum to mix in with his natural stones!

My maxim with all pad and orange sapphires is to assume diffused until proved otherwise either by lab report or by my being pretty sure that the stone has not been heated.

 

[T L]

I would send it back and get a full refund, or ask him for a partial refund to keep the setting. I think the setting with a be-treated stone is worth around $200. Some dealers are willing to do that, especially if they know the stone isn't really natural or it's highly treated.

In any case, I really like the setting, but it might not float your boat.

Gene Flannigan has this very pretty orange spessartite round for sale if you want a nice round orange stone. It's included, but the if inclusions don't bother you, it's well cut, and orange, and 100% natural and untreated. See gem 1221 in this link.

http://precisiongem.com/Gemstones/Gemstones/Gemstones/Garnet_Orange.html

 

[smmarkle]

I really like the Planetary Gems website. They have some beautiful stones in my price range. Are they are reputable dealer and has anyone dealt with them before? Some of the gems in the padparadscha category are orange-pink but not considered ‘pad.’ They looks like pad to me. Why is this?

 

[LD]

I really like the Planetary Gems website. They have some beautiful stones in my price range. Are they are reputable dealer and has anyone dealt with them before? Some of the gems in the padparadscha category are orange-pink but not considered ‘pad.’ They looks like pad to me. Why is this?

There are a number of people on this forum who have bought from them. Personally I haven't because they never answer my questions by email (maybe I just go straight into spam!).

Your definition of a Padparadscha and their definition may be completely different. They also err on the side of caution so they tend not to say "this is a Padparadscha". Basically as everybody else has said, there is no such thing as a cheap Pad. For example, the photo of the "new" ring that the vendor sent you, I would never class as a Pad in a million years as it doesn't fit the definition (the only definition) available.

The only advice I can give you is to buy a gem because you love it, NOT because of the name (which in the case of Padparadschas is very subjective).

 

[pregcurious]

If you want to make sure something is a pad, it should be sent to a reputable lab like AGL in NYC.

 

[T L]

I really like the Planetary Gems website. They have some beautiful stones in my price range. Are they are reputable dealer and has anyone dealt with them before? Some of the gems in the padparadscha category are orange-pink but not considered ‘pad.’ They looks like pad to me. Why is this?

Research the name, "Planetary Gems" on this site. There are mixed reviews.

Don't fall for marketing names, there are some sapphires that are labeled padparadschas by the acredited labs, and they're really unappealing to most people. This is supposed to be a prime padparadscha, but again, the look isn't favorable to everyone. Truth be told, I think orangy pink spinel is just as pretty as most of these stones, for a fraction of the price.