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Help needed with diamond studs 1 ct each

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by faz, May 13, 2017.

  1. faz
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
    16
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    May 13, 2017
    by faz » May 13, 2017
    Hello all, and thank you in advance for your feedback.

    For our 21st anniversary, I purchased a pair of 1ct each diamond studs for my wife from the local Shane Co. One of the reasons is their money back guarantee and upgrade eligibility.

    We are not that rich so this is a huge purchase for us, and basically trying to get a good bang for the buck. The diamonds in the studs look good and we are happy overall, but given my total lack of knowledge in the world of diamonds, there is always in the back of my mind the lingering thought of whether it was a good deal (not a bargain, I am not looking for that, but a good deal overall, considering the locality of the store and our ability to go see the diamond before purchase, etc.)

    I am hoping the below certificates will provide enough info on the two diamonds. I paid around $8700 tax included for the two diamonds, which was the 'internet' advertised price - lower than the marked price in the store - for the diamonds.


    Would there be other sources or locations where I can get a better diamond for the same price range??

    Again I do appreciate the fact that there is a local store that I can go to (Shane Co.) that if I have any issues/problems, they can handle, etc., so there is obviously some additional mark up due to that convenience, and I do not have a problem with it. I am just worried that I may have overpaid $2k or more for the same thing that I could easily get from another source.

    Any advice on this would be appreciated.

    Below are the links to GSI certificates (top link being the picture of the diamond and 360 view, second being the direct link to the pdf.)

    http://wg.gemscience.net/VR/ZoomVideo.aspx?p=16812900220

    http://wg.gemscience.net/PDF/D16812900220.AQAUJHFDYY.pdf



    http://wg.gemscience.net/VR/ZoomVideo.aspx?p=16812900208

    http://wg.gemscience.net/PDF/D16812900208.FWCVGGNVIM.pdf
     
  2. Queenie60
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
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    by Queenie60 » May 13, 2017
    Personally, I don't think this is a good deal - GSI isn't a lab that I recognize. And the certificate I was able to see via your links, shows the stone as an I1. Also seems a bit deep. I am certainly not an expert and I hope that some of the knowledgeable folks chime in on your thread. I would suggest you get your money back and shop with one of our online vendors. You can get a much better deal if you check out ID Jewelry, give them your budget and Yekutiel can find some lovely stones for you. You may need to go a bit under 1 carat each however a nicely cut stone will sparkle much better than a poor cut stone. I would rather go down in size and color to have a better stone. I love the little sparkle of light that twinkles off of my studs when I move. I would suggest you return these and let some of the experts on this site help you to find lovely diamond studs that your wife will enjoy wearing. Good luck to you.:wavey:
     
    faz likes this.
  3. JLW05
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
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    Mar 13, 2012
    by JLW05 » May 13, 2017
    You can do much better. Those are not well cut diamonds. Cut is king. Pricescope standards are diamonds with a table of 54-58, depth : 60 - 60.3, crown angle: 34 - 35 and a pavilion angle ranging between 40.6-40.9. I would not go below SI1 clarity. Also, look for GIA or AGS certification only. Contact IDJewelry. They have found nice well-cut studs for many people in your budget range. You may consider going down in color or size (.90 pointers) in order to get better cut diamonds in your price range. IDJ will give you a 30 day return window.
     
    faz likes this.
  4. flyingpig
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by flyingpig » May 13, 2017
    These diamonds are badly cut. They are too deep. One stone will appear more like 0.85c and the other is like 0.9c.

    You can get 0.9c GIA J or I VS2 for 3~4k each depending on where you shop.
    You actually save money and get higher quality well cut stones while not losing any diameter.
    If you dont care about clarify and cut quality that much, you can get 1.0 I/H SI2 for less than 4k each.

    Contact IDJ.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
    faz likes this.
  5. tyty333
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by tyty333 » May 13, 2017
    Those stones are not a good deal...you can get better cut/GIA cert (respected).
    These 2 arent perfect but they are better than what you currently have. You would need to hide that one inclusion under a prong.
    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...hFrom=45&DepthTo=62.2&TableFrom=50&TableTo=58

    We could probably find cleaner lower colors (Js). Also, since yours arent cut well, you could go down to .9s and get
    better cut stones that face up about the same size.

    I also think you should contact ID Jewelry.
     
    faz likes this.
  6. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
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    by bmfang » May 13, 2017
    Like the others have noted already, both stones are very deep. You are paying for carat weight buried in the body of the stone rather than letting it be seen virtually by the spread of the stone.

    That plus GSI is a weak lab with laxer grading standards. The stones are highly likely to be overgraded in colour and clarity and would not have the same gradings if graded by GIA or AGS labs. You can do a whole lot better with a different bricks and mortar retailer (like ID Jewelry or Good Old Gold). Or by an online retailer like James Allen or Blue Nike. Get your money back and buy from a different retailer.
     
    faz likes this.
  7. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    by faz » May 14, 2017
    Thank you all for your feedback. Very much appreciated. I will return these diamonds ( I can just see the pressure tactics now by the shop trying to make me keep the diamonds).

    I am glad I came here for advice it is always nice to get help from enthusiasts who are willing to help. I am no stranger to forum talk, been participant of motorcycle and watch forums for a while. I have tried to help others when I could, and it is nice to see you all try and help me now in your area of enthusiasm / expertise.

    Any more feedbacks, please send them in.

    I will work on returning these and will keep you posted ( probably pose new questions on other diamonds. )

    Wow, who knew. There is an incredible amount of science behind these stones. :))
     
    whitewave likes this.
  8. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
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    by bmfang » May 14, 2017
    If you let us know what type of settings you bought (4 prong basket, 3 prong martini) and your overall budget, we can help you out with suggesting stones and settings at the vendors we recommend or as we've mentioned above, talk to someone like Yekutiel from ID Jewerly in NYC and they can help you get some really great studs for your budget.
     
    faz likes this.
  9. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    May 13, 2017
    by faz » May 14, 2017
    The setting I bought was a three prong setting. Frankly I thought that would be the best to allow more light to diamond. But please feel free to provide guidance on the setting too.

    The price range is $8-9k all included. But I can push to $10k if the difference justifies it.
     
  10. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    May 13, 2017
    by faz » May 14, 2017
    Thank you forum for your feedback and guidance. I have returned those now and the return process was very quick and no pressure. Says a lot about the retailer. Never mind the quality of the stones, but from a sales and return process I had a very good experience with the retailer.

    I will contact IDJ mentioned above, but if there are other stores that people here have had good experience with, will appreciate it.
     
    diamondseeker2006 likes this.
  11. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LLJsmom » May 14, 2017
    Since your budget is up to $10K, I thought this pair might be worth considering.

    https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-di...etails.aspx?Diamond1=3604619&Diamond2=3706894

    Whiteflash A Cut Above stones are precision cut to their specific standards so you can be ensured of maximum sparkle.

    And I'm sure you won't ever want to consider upgrading, but they have the most generous and flexible upgrade policy. ;-) Since it's on her ears, they don't need to be eye clean.

    There are lots of people on this forum who have been very happy with their Whiteflash matched pairs.
     
    faz likes this.
  12. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    by LLJsmom » May 14, 2017
    Some basics that you may find useful. Since this is not a minor purchase, you may want to know what we look for and why.

    I am pasting an old post from Gypsy:

    "Round Diamonds 101:

    The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
    How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
    How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
    No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok-t142863.html
    So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
    https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
    Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
    https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
    The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
    If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
    Is that enough? Not really.

    So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
    That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
    It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

    The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
    So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

    Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

    In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.3. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.9 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you."

    Stick to these proportions:

    Table: 54-58
    Crown: 34-35 (35.5 is OK with pavilion of 40.6)
    Pavilion: 40.6 to 40.9 (41 is ok with crown of 34)
    Depth: 59.5 to 62.3

    Pricescopers will strongly recommend you do some more background reading before committing to buying a diamond (over 2 cts).

    The community here are fantastic, experienced and will help you look for a beautifully cut diamond that would get the best bang for your buck. There are several jewellers with in-house stones here as well, depending on your location.

    If you must buy from local jewellers, try your best to stick to the above parameters and you will be much more pleased with the results, once you leave the deceiving halogen lights that saturates any poorly cut diamond with sparkle.
     
    FeFeV and faz like this.
  13. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    May 13, 2017
    by faz » May 15, 2017
    Thank you. A whole science load of information that I need to absorb ( won't be able to absorb it all, just scratching the surface). Realistically, I will more likely rely on the expertise of this forum and the trusted vendors more so than gather and apply the knowledge myself.

    Being from a highly mathematical and engineering background with some knowledge of science and lights, I find these notes on symmetry and light passage etc. very interesting and making sense.

    Thank you.
     
  14. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

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    faz likes this.
  15. faz
    Rough_Rock

    Messages:
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    by faz » May 16, 2017
    Thank you again for the incredible support.

    1) I wanted to get your opinion on the following two diamonds that IDJ has found, seem to be in good price and overall eyeclean.

    2) I am wondering what your thoughts are also, that for under $8k total, if I were to go with the below two diamonds vs. say two .75 Ct Whiteflash A Cut Above diamonds of similar color/clarity ?

    ROUND BRILLIANT

    Measurements
    6.12 - 6.16 x 3.84 mm
    Carat Weight
    0.90 carat
    Color Grade
    I
    Clarity Grade
    VS2
    Cut Grade
    Excellent
    PROPORTIONS

    Depth
    62.6 %
    Table
    58 %
    Crown Angle
    36.0°
    Crown Height
    15.5%
    Pavilion Angle
    40.8°
    Pavilion Depth
    43.0%
    Star Length
    50%
    Lower Half
    80%
    Girdle
    Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
    Culet
    None
    FINISH

    Polish
    Excellent
    Symmetry
    Excellent
    FLUORESCENCE

    Fluorescence
    None


    -----------------

    Measurements
    6.12 - 6.16 x 3.85 mm
    Carat Weight
    0.90 carat
    Color Grade
    I
    Clarity Grade
    VS2
    Cut Grade
    Excellent
    PROPORTIONS

    Depth
    62.6 %
    Table
    58 %
    Crown Angle
    35.5°
    Crown Height
    15.0%
    Pavilion Angle
    41.2°
    Pavilion Depth
    44.0%
    Star Length
    50%
    Lower Half
    80%
    Girdle
    Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
    Culet
    None
    [​IMG]

    FINISH

    Polish
    Excellent
    Symmetry
    Excellent
     
  16. tuckie
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    111
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    Apr 21, 2013
    by tuckie » May 16, 2017
    I second the idea of IDJ for "maximize bang for the buck" projects. I sourced my 1.26ct studs from them and I could not be happier. Mine are GIA 3x with great HCA scores, but not superideals like you might get from Whiteflash or Brian Gavin. For me, this is a sweet spot - I might want superideal for a stone on my hand, but happy to pay a bit less to still get very well cut stones for my ears.
     
    faz likes this.
  17. tuckie
    Shiny_Rock

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    by tuckie » May 16, 2017
    The stones IDJ proposed for you above don't do as well on the HCA you'd like if you want these earrings to really sparkle (3.8 and 4.6 respectively).

    What guidance did you give Yeketiel and others? May want to be clear you are looking for "pricescope quality" and "HCA under 2.0". IDJ does a good job of offering products to folks at many pricepoints, so they tend to carry a range of stones from exceedingly well cut to those that are less so.

    You may need to make tradeoffs between budget, size, and overall quality (cut, color, clarity). Everyone is going to have their own happy place on that. Many longtime PS veterans will have a minimum quality and a budget in mind, and let the size of the stones adjust to meet the budget. Others will make compromises in other places.

    If you wanted it to be super easy, I'd just buy the biggest ACAs you can afford. You'll have fantastic cuts, but might compromise a bit on size to get there. A fantastic choice!

    In my own stud project, size was really important. So my parameters were GIA XXX, HCA <2.0, near-colorless and fairly eyeclean, as spready as I could get for my budget.

    I suggest you figure out what is most important to you and communicate that to all the vendors you are considering and see what they can offer.
     
    faz likes this.
  18. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    by faz » May 16, 2017
    Thank you tuckie for helpful replies.
    Based on your reply above, I ended up talking directly with Yekutiel, and explained my wants (great cut being of importance, more so than the color or clarity at this point.)

    He found a good pair of .9 matching, in H/G colors SI1, very well cut, and now that I checked on the HCL calculator, it shows HCL of 1.1 for them. (I told him I will post these numbers here on PS so he better be proud of what he is offering me for the $$). :) He sent me the actual pictures and IS and ASET images of them, and asked my opinion, and when I shared a couple of my findings in them, he was impressed! (I am sure he was being overly nice and probably laughing out loud inside as my newbie comments were insulting his intelligence. :) )

    I am pretty happy with his recommendation at this point, kind of the best bang for the buck for my needs, have wired the money and will receive them in a couple of days. Will post pictures here if/when I do. I am relying heavily on the expertise that I am accessing on this forum, and the good reputation that ID Jewelry and Yekutiel have here and on Yelp etc.

    Thank you all, will keep you posted. I would also like to donate towards upkeep of this forum if that is possible.
     
  19. ac117
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by ac117 » May 16, 2017
    Perfect!!! It's always best to speak to Yekutiel directly and it sounds like he came through!! Can't wait to see the final product and would love to know the specs! :appl:
     
    faz likes this.
  20. ringo865
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by ringo865 » May 16, 2017
    Oooh exciting!! How will they be set? Can't wait for pics!!!
     
    faz likes this.
  21. Queenie60
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Queenie60 » May 16, 2017
    Exciting! So what setting? Yekutiel will do well for you, always!!!
     
    faz likes this.
  22. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    by faz » May 16, 2017
    Thanks. I believe they will be in 4 prong white gold ( heavy back? )

    I did send an email after the fact to see if he offers platinum ( sure he does) and asked about the price difference. Not sure how much difference in looks and feel it makes. Will be happy with white gold anyway.
     
  23. Queenie60
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Queenie60 » May 17, 2017
    He set mine in white gold and they're just fine. It's a matter of preference.
     
    faz likes this.
  24. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » May 17, 2017
    My heart dropped when I got to $8700!!!!!! Bad deal on poorly cut diamonds.

    ETA: can't wait to see the new pics!
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
    faz likes this.
  25. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    by faz » May 17, 2017
    He called me and asked me this morning why I was thinking about platinum, and I said just wanted to weigh my options. He explained how preferable white gold might be (weight of platinum, possible color change over long time, etc.) and I agreed, no need to go that route.

    Thank you. Sorry for the heart attack! :) yes, I can't imagine having stayed with that pair, now that I am so much more educated about diamonds! (kidding on the so much more part... minimally educated enough to know those were a terrible deal, thanks to this forum.)
     
    whitewave likes this.
  26. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by diamondseeker2006 » May 17, 2017
    I have platinum settings and I am not sure I agree with him, however, white gold is okay, as well. The white gold is more likely to have color change than the platinum, in my opinion, since it is plated. Stud settings don't generally get wear like a ring does, though, so you should be fine with either. You also can't feel a weight difference in stud settings.

    Just wanted to say that well cut stones reflect light from the top, so more prongs do not hurt light return unless there are huge prongs on the top of the stone!
     
    faz likes this.
  27. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    by faz » May 17, 2017

    OK diamonds are on their way, should get here in the next two days.

    Here are the GIA specs and some shots, feedback appreciated.

    Diamond 1:
    0.9ct ,6.17-6.20x3.82 , H, SI1 , E/E/E, Fluorecense: none, Clarity: feather ,
    57%, 61.7%, 34.0, 40.8, Medium to Slightly Thick

    Diamond 2:
    0.9ct, 6.17-6.20x3.84, G, SI1, E/E/E, Fluorecense: none, Clarity: feather, cloud,
    55%, 62.1%, 34.0, 40.8, Medium to Slightly Thick

    1.1.jpg 1.3.jpg 1.5.jpg 2.1.jpg 2.3.jpg 2.5.jpg
     
    tuckie likes this.
  28. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

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    Jan 2, 2017
    by bmfang » May 17, 2017
    nicely matched pair that yekutiel found for you!

    ASET for the 2nd stone looks better than the first IMO, but these should perform beautifully in studs!
     
  29. tuckie
    Shiny_Rock

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    by tuckie » May 17, 2017
    Can't wait to hear how you like them in person! Take lots of pictures, please!
     
    faz likes this.
  30. faz
    Rough_Rock

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    by faz » May 19, 2017
    IMG_4964.PNG IMG_4964.PNG IMG_4965.PNG IMG_4967.PNG IMG_4969.PNG IMG_4973.PNG Hi everyone
    Thanks to you and your helpful participation in this thread, we now have a pair of beautiful earrings that are just stunning. I will add some photos below, but boy is it hard to take pictures of the diamonds.

    I have a loop that I had bought from amazon and cane with light built into it. Through that loop I could see the GIA numbers on the edge of the diamond and confirm them against the papers. (Not that there would have been any issues , but I am more of a trust but verify type of a person, always assuming human errors could happen and verification helps catch any).

    Let me see if I can upload he pics from my iPhone.
     

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