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Help Needed - Is this Diamond a Good Value?

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nk416-diamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
20
Hey everyone - have been doing lots of research... Looking for a stone in the 2.2 to 2.7 range, and as I would describe, "as sparkly and big as I can get for the best value". If it were only so easy :)

Looking for the classic 6-prong Tiffany's setting with a round stone. I'm still debating whether I should go with Tiffany's directly. At this point the additional premium I will be paying almost seems worth it so I don't get "ripped off".

That being said, I have come across this stone. What is your opinion on the diamond. Do you guys think it would be of good value? Seems to me that I can find similar sized diamonds quite a few thousand dollars cheaper elsewhere.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104045953026

Many thanks!
 
It's a nice stone.

You could certainly find stones w/ similar colour/clarity/carat elsewhere for less. You're paying for the precision of cut that creates those picture-perfect hearts, and you're paying for BGD's services and the upgrade/trade-in policies.

Those things are worth the premium to some, not to others.
 
Ok - I really want this ring to have the "wow" factor. Would you guys say, in your experience, that this diamond will be brilliant... or should I be moving up to VS1-2, and up a scale in colour?
 
It will "wow" you, and anyone who looks at it.

increasing colour is personal preference, increasing clarity will have no visible yields given this stone is eyeclean
 
increasing clarity at this point is a mind-clean issue, since the stone is eye-clean. color is a matter of personal preference, you have to determine for yourself what color range is acceptable to you. I think this stone in a tiffany style solitaire setting would be pretty WOW but that is just me :tongue:
 
Thanks everyone!
 
I'm wowed by it! :bigsmile:
 
I purchased it - going to have it set in a tiffany's knife edge platinum setting. I hope all works out.

Thanks everyone for your help.
 
Please provide pics when completed!
 
Hi all...

**edited by moderator. please do not link to other forums per PS policies**

Can anyone comment on your thoughts? All this is really starting to rack my head... I only have a few days left before I can switch the diamond before it goes into a setting.

Here is a snipped of his message:

--

Brian Gavin is reviewing a diamond he wants to sell. The most likely reason for this is because there is a massive profit in selling the stone. You as a consumer have bought into the "Brian Gavin" pitch and associate more value with a stone that has been reviewed by him. In the diamond industry there are two online sales channels. One channel is for people who are unaware of the precise details of diamond grading and may be reeled in to purchasing a "signature" range or a retailers own certified diamond or a stone that has been graded by a poor lab. The other channel is for diamond savvy consumers who know their stuff and buy the best by conducting advanced searches on the retailers inventory database. If the retailer is well known he doesn't need to put much effort into marketing the best stones as customers who are in the know will snap them up.

I would take the GIA's reputation over any one person in the world. As far as you're concerned Brian Gavin is running a profitable business right? so his opinion is not unbiased. The GIA however are the only lab in the world that are a not for profit. They invest all the money back into research and education and technology advancement. The GIA's report is completely unbiased and brutally honest. I'm actually quite surprised that he would consider the stone you are looking at as a "signature" diamond, it does not make sense.

Trust me birdlady dont buy a stone that big that is SI1, especially if it has been graded by any lab other than the GIA. If you are spending $30K you will be able to buy a GIA certified H in colour and VS2 one clarity grade better than the one you are looking at with the best cert. He is selling one of many on his site that fall into the category.

Quick check list for you if you are looking at a round diamond.

-Always buy GIA certified diamond - check the report online
-Make sure the colour is no less than I, possibly J if you have darker skin complexion
-No less than VS2 on a diamond the size you are looking at
-Cut, polish and symmetry VG-EX, try to get one with Excellent "cut"
-No very thick girdle
-No very strong flouresence
-Check the measurements of the stone make sure its not too deep with a small surface area. diameter should be over 8.6 mm on 2.5carat
-Dont take the retailers word for it, The GIA report is all you need to make the right choice.
-If you ever sell the stone in the future, having a GIA report will pay dividends.

Don't rush into it, take your time get know some of the diamonds you are looking at, believe me you will not regret it. let me know which ones and i'll tell you if its a good price. I hope this information is useful

Best wishes

Bud
Manchester Jewellers
 
nk416-diamond said:
Brian Gavin is reviewing a diamond he wants to sell. The most likely reason for this is because there is a massive profit in selling the stone. You as a consumer have bought into the "Brian Gavin" pitch and associate more value with a stone that has been reviewed by him. In the diamond industry there are two online sales channels. One channel is for people who are unaware of the precise details of diamond grading and may be reeled in to purchasing a "signature" range or a retailers own certified diamond or a stone that has been graded by a poor lab. The other channel is for diamond savvy consumers who know their stuff and buy the best by conducting advanced searches on the retailers inventory database. If the retailer is well known he doesn't need to put much effort into marketing the best stones as customers who are in the know will snap them up.

I would take the GIA's reputation over any one person in the world. As far as you're concerned Brian Gavin is running a profitable business right? so his opinion is not unbiased. The GIA however are the only lab in the world that are a not for profit. They invest all the money back into research and education and technology advancement. The GIA's report is completely unbiased and brutally honest. I'm actually quite surprised that he would consider the stone you are looking at as a "signature" diamond, it does not make sense.

Trust me birdlady dont buy a stone that big that is SI1, especially if it has been graded by any lab other than the GIA. If you are spending $30K you will be able to buy a GIA certified H in colour and VS2 one clarity grade better than the one you are looking at with the best cert. He is selling one of many on his site that fall into the category.

Quick check list for you if you are looking at a round diamond.

-Always buy GIA certified diamond - check the report online
-Make sure the colour is no less than I, possibly J if you have darker skin complexion
-No less than VS2 on a diamond the size you are looking at
-Cut, polish and symmetry VG-EX, try to get one with Excellent "cut"
-No very thick girdle
-No very strong flouresence
-Check the measurements of the stone make sure its not too deep with a small surface area. diameter should be over 8.6 mm on 2.5carat
-Dont take the retailers word for it, The GIA report is all you need to make the right choice.
-If you ever sell the stone in the future, having a GIA report will pay dividends.

Don't rush into it, take your time get know some of the diamonds you are looking at, believe me you will not regret it. let me know which ones and i'll tell you if its a good price. I hope this information is useful

Best wishes

Bud
Manchester Jewellers
Click to expand...

Load of crap.

AGS also have online report check. GIA not a for profit lab? Which universe does he live in? AGS split from GIA when GIA initially refuses to grade cut of a round brilliant.
Color, depends on personal preference, I got a P, would have go lower if there was one.
Cut, GIA Ex cut are iffy to say the least.
Girdle measurement, depends on lab and how they describe it. GIA measures the thinnest part only, AGS measures and report both the thinnest and thickest part.
Fluoresence, again pesonal preference, my P is a very strong blue, no bad effect and I like it.
Eye-clean is eye-clean whatever the grade if you can see the inclusion. GIA SI1 can have eye visible inclusions too. (EDT: The only sure way is to buy it loose and have a look at it to see if it is eye-clean to you, do not depend on report.) Regarding BG's impartiality, he will have more to loose as he has build up his reputation over the years which is what is generating sales for him.
Resell, having a buyback polciy is the best, anything else you will at best taake a 50% loss.
 
Hey - I informed the other poster about your response and this is his reply... tell me what you guys think (and thank you for all your help!)

At this point it doesn't matter since BGD has an excellent upgrade policy... but I thought I would post the reply none the less.


--

Honestly my dear you dont have to take my word for it.

1st point - http://www.gia.edu/about-gia/index.html read the description about the GIA, they can't say they are not for profit on their website if they were not, they would get sued right?

2- GIA do have a cut grade for round diamonds, history is irrelevant in this case

3- Colour is indeed a matter of choice, but I assume you are looking at a stone that you would like to appear white so my previous comments where based on that assumption, please correct me if I'm wrong.

4-I would trust what ever the GIA say over what this guy from pricescope is saying. He may himself sell AGS certified diamonds and perhaps is a little vexed.

5-Yes It is better to see the stone if you can before you buy but if you cant, choosing a stone with VS2 will ensure that you have an eye clean stone especially if its graded by the GIA.

6-Just take a look at the stone you sent me and the rest that are on his website

ask the guy from pricescope which one he would buy the, AGS H SI1 or the following, or infact ask anyone in this forum which they would prefer.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=28190314

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=28221161

check it yourself did you notice how all his signature ones are all AGS and the majority of the other stones he sells are GIA...


http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/search-for-diamonds/?shape=B&bgd_signature=1&bgd_select=1&bgd_everythingelse=1&size1=2&size2=&color1=8&color2=8&clarity1=6&clarity2=8&price1=300&price2=500000&lab=any&cut_grade_from=0&cut_grade_to=1&polish_from=0&polish_to=1&symmetry_from=0&symmetry_to=1&depth_from=&depth_to=&table_from=&table_to=&submit=Search

I'm just trying to offer my help on the matter Birdlady as you posted the question. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best wishes

Bud

Quick Reply
 
Okay what is the point of this back and forth? I assume it is not for the sake of playing he said she said.. if you would like me to go through the itemised list, I can do that.

In any case, show him the article I linked, and hopefully he too will understand why it is not a good idea to blindly trust that a stone assigned GIA's top cut grade is automatically "best of the lot".

AGS has a niche market - they cater to the cut nuts, of which this forum has many. They use a ray tracing simulation rather than relying solely on proportions (that have been averaged and rounded) to assign a cut grade, and as such even a stone w/ 'cherry' numbers may not make the coveted AGS Ideal grade... so it doesn't make sense for mass manufacturers to send their stones to AGS, because unless they are certain that the stone will be graded highly and command that 'ideal' premium, they will have wasted the money for the cert. For large stones, for coloured stones, for the mass market, GIA is a whale and AGS is a minnow...



nk416-diamond|1289858901|2767164 said:
Hey - I informed the other poster about your response and this is his reply... tell me what you guys think (and thank you for all your help!)

At this point it doesn't matter since BGD has an excellent upgrade policy... but I thought I would post the reply none the less.


--

Honestly my dear you dont have to take my word for it.

1st point - http://www.gia.edu/about-gia/index.html read the description about the GIA, they can't say they are not for profit on their website if they were not, they would get sued right? it does say that. How does this help you choose your perfect stone?

2- GIA do have a cut grade for round diamonds, history is irrelevant in this case How does this help you choose your perfect stone?

3- Colour is indeed a matter of choice, but I assume you are looking at a stone that you would like to appear white so my previous comments where based on that assumption, please correct me if I'm wrong. Agree w/ his earlier comments re. H/I/J depending on skin colour

4-I would trust what ever the GIA say over what this guy from pricescope is saying. He may himself sell AGS certified diamonds and perhaps is a little vexed. SC is NOT a tradesmember

5-Yes It is better to see the stone if you can before you buy but if you cant, choosing a stone with VS2 will ensure that you have an eye clean stone especially if its graded by the GIA. depends entirely on stone size. VS2 will pretty much always be clean unless you're looking at large stones, if you're looking at small stones there is a very good chance of finding an eyeclean SI2 where the inclusions also do not affect light return by any realistic metric

6-Just take a look at the stone you sent me and the rest that are on his website

ask the guy from pricescope which one he would buy the, AGS H SI1 or the following, or infact ask anyone in this forum which they would prefer.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=28190314

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-details/?product_id=28221161

check it yourself did you notice how all his signature ones are all AGS and the majority of the other stones he sells are GIA...

remember what I said about niches - AGS' is cut quality, of course a manufacturer of precision cut stones would send his branded stones to AGS - and sell them at the premium that AGS0s command. Whether or not you want to pay the premium for H&A is up to you - not everyone does, and you certainly do not need perfect hearts to get a beautiful stone.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/search-for-diamonds/?shape=B&bgd_signature=1&bgd_select=1&bgd_everythingelse=1&size1=2&size2=&color1=8&color2=8&clarity1=6&clarity2=8&price1=300&price2=500000&lab=any&cut_grade_from=0&cut_grade_to=1&polish_from=0&polish_to=1&symmetry_from=0&symmetry_to=1&depth_from=&depth_to=&table_from=&table_to=&submit=Search

I'm just trying to offer my help on the matter Birdlady as you posted the question. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best wishes

Bud

Quick Reply
Click to expand...
 
He is an idiot especially with point 6. He does not have any idea what is virtual inventories? He does not sell memo stones? He really owns all the stones he has in his store? If so, he sure has a large amount of fix assets and no much liquidity, either he is very rich or he is not working his money enough or he is only telling you part of the whole story to prove his point. Point is, every vendor has access to virtual inventories, that is how they call in stones if a customer wants to look at stones outside of what he has stock. Online vendors list virtual stones, those are not stones they own. BlueNile's Signature Ideals are the only stones they own, everything else is own by other vendors. GIA has a much larger share of graded stones in the US, of course the virtual inventories will be listing mainly GIA stones.

2. Round cut grade was develop in order to compete with AGS. Their cut grade is average proportion based rather than actual facets size and orientations of the AGS performance based cut grade. See Yssie's link for what GIA Ex can still look like, these cut grades allows for steeper stones than optimum, meaning you pay more for a stone that looks smaller. History is still history, they get a cut grade after AGS has develop a cut grade and this guy is saying they are still the best. B.S.

1. If GIA is not profit based, why then would they want to develop a cut grade to compete with AGS. Stick with their old system of carat, color and clarity, loose some market share, why care as long as it is for education right?

4. I am a consumer, I do not sell stone.

5. Again, if it is eye-clean, it is eye-clean regardless of clarity grade.
 
Great info - you have been very helpful.
 
Yssie|1289847150|2766870 said:
oh he's a clever one - just enough truth to make you wonder if there's something to the BS :cheeky:


https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show will show you a little more about why it is better to look at a stone and judge for yourself than blindly trust in a (for-profit, indeed) corporation's say-so.
Click to expand...

Newbie here, strange enough, after reading this article, I think it is Totally Fine to buy RB stone (esp. smaller ones < 1ct maybe) blindly from vendors like BlueNile...

Just stick with the most strict criteria of proportions will do, for example:
table: 56-57
depth: 60.8-61.8
pa: 40.6-40.8
cr: 34-34.5
st: 55
lh: 75
girdle: medium

My reasoning is as following: among the example stones used in that article, all the good looking ones( 2, 6, 8 ) falls in the criteria above and the rest fails the criteria...
So even with a less-precise GIA cert, if we stick with the most strict criteria in proportion, and with the extra help of HCA, what could possibly go wrong even if one is purchasing blindly?

If my reasoning is correct, why should we pay extra money for the idealscope/aset image, or further review while buying RB ?
Am I missing anything?
 
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