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Help! Need opinions on this 3.8 OEC (pics included)

DiamondFix

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
51
I have been collecting data since October. I started looking seriously in February and, with the help of some lovely PS'ers, found a stone in early March.

What is your minimum mm diameter? And would you consider a transitional?

So glad you were able to find something you love! I have not seen a transitional in person, but from what I've seen in videos they do seem very pretty. I would definitely be open to exploring that further....
Probably somewhere around 9.75-10 mm would be a great size. I just tried similar on my 7.25 finger size and it didn't seem too over the top on my "man paws" :blackeye:

I am crossing my fingers something wonderful comes up soon!
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
1,005
Oh I can totally relate! I’m a 6.5 but always get 7 or 7.25 in case my fingers swell.

Take a look at these. The L is just a hair small @9.3mm and M looks larger but to my eye the L looks nicer. A return would be more complicated but this is one of more attractive 3+ stones I have seen.

 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
1,005
Out of curiosity, did you find an upward trend in price?

@dhimer it’s kind of hard to say for the 3+ market-there aren't really enough data points. I was told that there was more inventory in the 2-3 ct range. You know the market is tight when 3 vendors try to show you the same stone...
 

dhimer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
124
@dhimer it’s kind of hard to say for the 3+ market-there aren't really enough data points. I was told that there was more inventory in the 2-3 ct range. You know the market is tight when 3 vendors try to show you the same stone...

Oh I was referring to the general market for old stones. Seems to me there is an upward trend in prices for these stones. Not sure if from increased interest or rather due to limited supply ( covid closing off trading chanels)
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
977
Hi. Have you looked at the cavity with a loupe? Is it really a “risk”? Like, for example, it’s been around for a hundred years, worn presumably. How did it survive? IMO, unless the cavity is crazy obvious, a VS1 Stone is not at risk for self-destruction. Before you send it back, can you get an expert opinion on the deal breaker cavity?

There are some very nice things about this diamond.

It looks like an authentic antique cut. I’m not sure if it’s been touched in a hundred years. You could ask Adam if anything has been “cleaned up”. Some people like authenticity cause it’s romantic.

It’s an M with slight fluorescence and to your eye it looks like a G. That’s something! You are paying for an M but getting a stone that looks lighter. That’s actually a thing, and not too common. Some stones just look lighter.

It’s 3.87 carats with a somewhat shallower depth. Again, almost 4 carats but you presumably pay less per carat for just under 4. (Or maybe not in this market...)

It’s not obvious visually, your diamond still looks somewhat chunky, but you are getting way more spread from this diamond than some antiques, due to shallower depth. Again, that’s reducing your “cost per mm diameter” factor.

Does it have koizibe? It looks like it does.

Pretty diamond, IMO. If price is right (it should be), I think you are hitting all the good things with this one. IF you like form factor of shallower crown, and very identifiably unique (not cookie cutter) antique cut that is not from an assembly line of perfectly cut prototypical “old cut” stones.
 
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lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
1,005
@LightBright actually brings up some good points.

Are you close to any major cities? If so, there may be some brick and mortar stores you can go to see other old cut stones. It seem like almost every major city has a good estate jewelry store (except Boston).

Though the selection is slim in Boston, I was able to see a few larger old cuts before I decided on my stone.
 

Tourmaline

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
1,890
I think it’s really beautiful. But if you have reservations, keep looking.

Did you see the almost OEC I posted in a new thread a couple of days ago? It’s a very lively diamond, but it has 70% lower girdle facets, so it’s sort of a hybrid. I’ve also been looking at a lot of OECs lately.
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,842
Hi. Have you looked at the cavity with a loupe? Is it really a “risk”? Like, for example, it’s been around for a hundred years, worn presumably. How did it survive? IMO, unless the cavity is crazy obvious, a VS1 Stone is not at risk for self-destruction. Before you send it back, can you get an expert opinion on the deal breaker cavity?

There are some very nice things about this diamond.

It looks like an authentic antique cut. I’m not sure if it’s been touched in a hundred years. You could ask Adam if anything has been “cleaned up”. Some people like authenticity cause it’s romantic.

It’s an M with slight fluorescence and to your eye it looks like a G. That’s something! You are paying for an M but getting a stone that looks lighter. That’s actually a thing, and not too common. Some stones just look lighter.

It’s 3.87 carats with a somewhat shallower depth. Again, almost 4 carats but you presumably pay less per carat for just under 4. (Or maybe not in this market...)

It’s not obvious visually, your diamond still looks somewhat chunky, but you are getting way more spread from this diamond than some antiques, due to shallower depth. Again, that’s reducing your “cost per mm diameter” factor.

Does it have koizibe? It looks like it does.

Pretty diamond, IMO. If price is right (it should be), I think you are hitting all the good things with this one. IF you like form factor of shallower crown, and very identifiably unique (not cookie cutter) antique cut that is not from an assembly line of perfectly cut prototypical “old cut” stones.

I think much the same, but didn't want to make it seems like I was "pushing" this diamond or vendor.

I have a 3.09 OMC that is beautifully cut and an OMC is hard to find, especially in that size. It has an indented natural right underneath the girdle edge on one side. I didn't let that be a deal breaker, because it has been there for over 100 years and it is stable. I would prefer to set it in a more protective setting one day, just for my own piece of mind. But, I agree with this assessment of the stone you are considering, fwiw. I rather like it and think it is a very nice stone. I would change the setting though and even a faux bezel would protect it more as it will cover the girdle. CvB does a great faux bezel.
 

DiamondFix

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
51
Hi. Have you looked at the cavity with a loupe? Is it really a “risk”? Like, for example, it’s been around for a hundred years, worn presumably. How did it survive? IMO, unless the cavity is crazy obvious, a VS1 Stone is not at risk for self-destruction. Before you send it back, can you get an expert opinion on the deal breaker cavity?

There are some very nice things about this diamond.

It looks like an authentic antique cut. I’m not sure if it’s been touched in a hundred years. You could ask Adam if anything has been “cleaned up”. Some people like authenticity cause it’s romantic.

It’s an M with slight fluorescence and to your eye it looks like a G. That’s something! You are paying for an M but getting a stone that looks lighter. That’s actually a thing, and not too common. Some stones just look lighter.

It’s 3.87 carats with a somewhat shallower depth. Again, almost 4 carats but you presumably pay less per carat for just under 4. (Or maybe not in this market...)

It’s not obvious visually, your diamond still looks somewhat chunky, but you are getting way more spread from this diamond than some antiques, due to shallower depth. Again, that’s reducing your “cost per mm diameter” factor.

Does it have koizibe? It looks like it does.

Pretty diamond, IMO. If price is right (it should be), I think you are hitting all the good things with this one. IF you like form factor of shallower crown, and very identifiably unique (not cookie cutter) antique cut that is not from an assembly line of perfectly cut prototypical “old cut” stones.

Such great information! You gave me a lot to think about - thank you. I agree with you that it's not as chunky as i would like but it does have a nice spread and looks huge. I guess everything is a trade off. I would love to see some others with different facet patterns to compare to this one. Especially one that would display the classic chunky facets of this cut.

When looked at through a loupe, I definitely see kozibe effect so clear. It was fascinating to see! Is this something that is desirable? I have read it's kind of a matter of preference...just can't figure out if it affects performance.

I am keeping the stone for a few more days to view it in different lighting. What you said about the cavity seems to make perfect sense....the diamond is old and survived this long so it doesn't seem like it would be a huge risk. I just don't know what would be a fair price or if this inclusion would affect the value long term

Cannot tell you how much i appreciate your thoughtful post =)2
 

DiamondFix

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
51
I think much the same, but didn't want to make it seems like I was "pushing" this diamond or vendor.

I have a 3.09 OMC that is beautifully cut and an OMC is hard to find, especially in that size. It has an indented natural right underneath the girdle edge on one side. I didn't let that be a deal breaker, because it has been there for over 100 years and it is stable. I would prefer to set it in a more protective setting one day, just for my own piece of mind. But, I agree with this assessment of the stone you are considering, fwiw. I rather like it and think it is a very nice stone. I would change the setting though and even a faux bezel would protect it more as it will cover the girdle. CvB does a great faux bezel.

I will check out faux bezels...that sounds like a great idea!
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
977
If you want to see close ups of other OEC faceting, look at at Jewels by Grace, Parks Fine Group or Adam’s other stones to see comparable stones with potentially different cuts and pricing. There are other sites as well, these come to mind.

I’m loving your antique stone but like Elizat I do not want to appear like I’m selling it. There are two more things I want to mention about it. One, the table is TINY. This perfectly frames the pinwheel center facets in an appealing way (my opinion).

Second it’s got antique diamond “patina”, which is very slightly abraded (not modern cut translucent sharp) facet junctions) on at least part of the diamond (I can’t see the stone all over). These very slightly abraded facet junctions to me (my opinion) make the stone prettier. It makes the facets more defined. It also reflects an original antique. Not even Yoram of Gem Concepts knows exactly how these facet junctions were created, but it’s a hallmark of an antique stone. See his Instagram for an example.


Yoram thinks it’s a sign that the diamond rolled around in a pouch with other diamonds and was not set. I’m thinking could it be an artifact of what they used to cut it? I love this quality. But you should know what this is and love it, too.
 
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LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
977
I’m happy you posted your diamond photos Elizat. It’s something worth mentioning because some people like this. Some might not. It’s up to the individual. Definitely good to be aware ahead of time of what to look for and consider.
 

lulu_ma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
1,005
@DiamondFix any updates? Did you return the OWD stone?

If you are still looking, I just came across an interesting one...
 
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