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HELP - need help with proportions - Buying tomorrow!!

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niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
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1,792
It's probably a very pretty stone, however "the most exacting AGS000 standards" would have put the pavilion angle somewhere between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees and the stone would be just a little more lively than we suspect that it is... And just for the record, we're quoting the use of "AGS000" not using it... The correct term to refer to the proportions of the diamond is "AGS Ideal 0" and "AGS000" would refer to an AGS Graded diamond which has an "overall cut rating" of AGS Ideal 0 and AGS-0 D Color and AGS-0 Flawless Clarity... We mention this only because other people will read this thread and we don't want them to get confused with the misuse of the slang term "AGS000" or "triple zero"
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Small changes (read miniscule) in the pav angle can make a HUGE difference.

Run that same stone through the HCA with a pav angle of 41 instead of 41.1 and you get 1.8 TIC EX VG VG VG, if you change it to 40.9 it gets 1.5 TIC EX EX VG VG, change it one last time to 40.8, you get 1.2 TIC EX EX EX VG.

So even a tenth makes a difference and a huge difference it is.


If you have seen this stone, which you have, and you love it, which you do, go with your eyes. The numbers are one thing, but a stone that scores 2.5 is still good; and your eyes and what you feel when you purchase are what count as well as playing with the numbers.

However, while purchasing I would mention to the jeweler that you love the stone, but you feel the pavilion is a little steep. See what he says...he may be surprised he's not talking to just some maul consumer!
Have fun!

Best of luck!
 

bools

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Messages
24
I spoke to the jeweller today with regards to the HCA and he said to be a bit weary of the HCA. He told me that it favored a certain type of diamond (ie: favored a shallower or deeper cut - i can't remember which one). He said that it's "one person's" opinion of what the ideal cut should be.

I think he now sees that i'm a neewbie, but still quite "educated" in my diamond purchase thanks to you guys!

I haven't seemed to find much info on the HCA other than in this forum.

To be quite honest, I can't really tell the difference between diamonds side by side. They all seem to look "good" to me - they all seem to sparkle. My jeweller isn't pushing me into a purchase, he still says that it's ultimately my decision, but he wouldn't read too much into the HCA.

Please help...is the HCA the hard and fast bible of diamonds, especially if I can't tell the difference with my eyes?

Thanks guys!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Ha ha of course he is leery of the HCA--it's saying your stone isn't as good as he says it is!
Grain of salt...

The HCA is not the bible of anything. It's a great tool out of many to help you make an educated decision. If a stone comes up with a 5 on the HCA...that to me would be a huge red flag..even if the HCA is not the only tool out there (and its definitely not) to make an educated decision, you don't need to even bother with a stone that scores poorly. There are too many other stones out there that will perform well on the HCA *and* on other tools *and* to your eyes. Seems like many people really use it to help 'weed' out the duds and focus on better performers on the HCA and then also use a Sarin report and their eyes or the Bscope or similar to confirm what the HCA said.

My two cents anyway. The HCA used to favor shallower stones I think, but Garry has made some changes to it over the last few months that may rectified this a bit if my memory serves me well. Hence, my stone which is shallower, used to score a 1.5 on the HCA and now its something like a 2.5. Still looks the same to me!


The HCA definitely does not favor shallower or deeper stones to the detriment of a true 'ideal' cut stone IMO. So if this stone was a great ideal type stone, the HCA would say it...having plugged MANY stones into the HCA over my time here..hee hee.


Good luck!!
 

bools

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Messages
24
Mara,

So what do you think? Is an HCA of 2.5 bad? What would be a good price for this stone?

I've found another stone, but it seems like the total spread isn't nearly as good. Both are AGS ideal + H&A.

Thanks guys!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Well here is a 1.17 G SI1 from WhiteFlash, an ACA H&A with an HCA score of 2.4 VG for $6900:

http://www.whiteflash.com/acut/diamond_details.asp?ItemCode=1471

The crown angle is a little steep which is why the HCA gives it a 2.4 as opposed to under 2.0.

or H VS2 1.20c AGS 0 with HCA score 1.7 EX for $6400 from NiceIce

http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/gia12571447/index.htm

Compare those two stones and their diameters and see what you think.

Here is a 1.14 G SI1 H&A AGS 0 with no HCA score (no angles listed on this cert but you can ask) from USA CertEd for $5800.

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=1548225&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=&_ln=ps

My opinion? I don't think the HCA score of 2.5 is bad. But it depends on what you feel. Will you always be bothered that it didn't score better? My belief is that if the stone looks amazing to you (btw did you ask to take it out of the store into everday lighting such as sunlight or regular non-jeweler lights?) then that is really what ultimately matters. The idea is that an excellently cut real H&A stone will return light better, sparkle more etc etc than a more typical type cut stone because of it's great symmetry and precision on the angles. What trade-offs are you making in this stone? Is it okay with you? Or does it really not matter!?

In the end it's your decision. If you feel very indecisive, take it to an independent appraiser in your area and get their unbiased opinion on it. Not another JEWELER but an independent appraiser who will look at and report on the stone. Chances are you are spending a good chunk of change on this stone--spend another $100 or so to be SURE that it is what you want with no regrets.

If you are still not sure and feel indecisive, keep looking. There are alot of stones out there, whether online or offline that can fit your budget most likely, so don't get too hung up on a stone like this because there ARE more stones out there and there ARE better cut stones out there. So if you can't reconcile yourself to this stone and it's nuances, keep looking. IMO this isn't a purchase you want to look back on and feel regret for.

Good luck!!
 
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