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Help Me Please!!

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Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
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Hello all,
I am in desperate need of some help here, and it seems that there are some smart experts and amazing jewelery lovers here.
So, I''''ll try to make a long story short. I''''ve been with my amazing wife for years now- we fell in love when we were practically kids! My original proposal involved her parent''''s driveway and a simple sterling silver band I got at a mall, and teenage love! Now, years later, we are a young artist couple and I have been wanting to upgrade and find a ring that is as wonderful, unique and gorgeous as she is, inside and out.
She wanted a vintage/antique old-cut diamond for sure. She has a particular love for older cuts- she adores that they were made to sparkle in candlelight. She wanted a pear shaped ring, in something like an old rose cut. And she was leaning towards one witha slightly golden hue. So I thought I had found the perfect one- I looked high and low at thousands of different rings, researched a ton of old cuts, antique jewelry, etc. and eventually found it on Ebay. I know, I know, you''''re all laughing about now. Oddly enough, I recently saw a picture of the exact ring I bought here on Pricescope- (posted by Ninama), after I had bought it.

The ring was listed as:
4.97 OLD MINE ROSE CUT DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING
CENTER PEAR STONE: 2.95 CARATS
EACH SIDE: 1.01 CARAT EACH= TOTAL 2.02 CARATS
METAL: 14K WHITE GOLD ( 5.02 GRAMS)
COLOR: SLIGHT FANCY COLOR / VS 1- VS 2
COLOR: H
Aso listed as from turn of the century- very old. Desscribed as ''''Old Mine Rose Cut'''' (this was Ninama''''s question in her post) and told me that replacement value was $15, 000. She described it to me as ''''almost flawless!!'''' and said it was 100% natural, she also mentioned that she is a jewelry designer, so she knows the difference and would not sell irradiated or enhanced pieces.
In answer to my questions, I was informed that there were no scratches or chips, and that there was a smal inclusion but only visible through a loupe, not by the naked eye.

Flash forward, the ring arrived, and the ring is lovely- I love the size and shape. The seller has seemed very nice and sent me an appraisal that was done for the ring, but that listed it as clarity
SI 1 and color J, with replacement value at $10,200. So first, I was confused why they had sent me an appraiisal that was describing the ring as quite different from their original listing. She had explained to me that the $15,00 figure was a verbal appraisal from somewhere else. But I was very concerned that it now seemed to be something quite different than what was listed.
But the real problem is that there are very obvious large ''''feathers'''' in the stone- very obvious to my naked eye and the first thing I noticed. I wrote the seller and asked why the difference and they seemed irritated, telling me that old rings are not perfect, but that I had gotten a great price and couldn''''t expect a perfect ring. It also has a slight ''''chip'''', or snag on one side when I run my nail over it I can feel it. I replied that I wasn''''t expecting perfection, that part of old diamonds'''' charm was their hand-made quality, but I was expecting to get the quality they described to me.
I have taken it around to a few local jewelers (in LA) amd the first one asked ''''can you get your money back?'''' and stated that it is probably in the I range for clarity, which is what I had guessed upon seeing it in person. Not even close to VS1 or VS2!
So now I am unsure what to do - let me say that my wife loves the slight yellow color and the cut- it''''s just what she wanted, but as for the inclusions, or cracks, or whatever they are, I am worried about the stability of the stone and wondering if by diamond drilling perhaps we can get the inclusions enhanced- I know that''''s a dirty word here but I do love everything else about the ring and I don''''t know when I''''ll ever find a large, old rose cut stone like this again for a price I can (sort of) afford. What should I do??? Help please! Is there any chance I would ever find a large charming old rose cut pear stone for a good price again?
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Welcome to PS
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1) take it to an independent appraiser, they will tell you how sound this stone is, whether the nature of the inclusions are a deal breaker, etc... If the chip can be polished out.. Look under resources at the top of the page for an appraiser in your area.

2) Have you heard of Ari at Singlestone, believe he''s in LA. Very reputable and specializes in the older cuts. Rose, OEC, OMC ....Do a search, many threads should come up. There is a thread right now in SMTR.

Good luck!!
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I''d ask the admin to post this thread in RT, as you''ll get more help...
 
posting my pics of the ring:
Also forgot to mention her ring size is just under 3.5 and I am aware that the ring setting here is obviously contemporary.

MyRoseCutRing01.jpg
 
more pics...

MyRoseCutRing02.jpg
 
more:

MyRoseCutRing03.jpg
 
more:

MyRoseCutRing04.jpg
 
more:

MyRoseCutRing05.jpg
 
last ones:
you can see the two large ~diagonal inclusions in some of these.

MyRoseCutRing06.jpg
 
sorry for the obvious Photoshop''ing here- I was trying to adjust the background without adjusting the ring color and now I see it looks a little cut-out...
 
Don't panic, start taking legal action.

The first thing to do is call them and tell them that you are going to report them to the BBB and perhaps some other, more specifically jeweler, organizations they might be part of.

There are laws in place to back you here. First, the color they told you when they sold it to you is OBVIOUSLY not an H, plus they sent you an appraisal showing that it is 2 colors less than they stated during the purchase. You have a case already at that point.

You may need to go get an independent appraisal if they still give you any fuss, as that is certainly no H, and I bet it is lower than a J as well. Maybe the lighting is having an impact, and its no RB so the color will be more obvious...but that is pretty tainted.

Throw in a second blatant lie about the clarity and there will be numerous actions you can take. Start out asking for a manager and then by informing them of the actions you will take. Then take a few basic actions such as reporting them to various agencies. and then call back inform them of what you have done and what you will be doing next. if they keep giving you a fuss you may need to take it to another level. But this company has just outright lied to you and bassically stolen your money, I say don't give them a moments respite and do anything you can to either get every penny including shipping of your money back and crush their @@#$ if they give you a problem. Hopefully somebody will get on that has more technical knowledge about the laws, but I know enough to tell you you DEF have a case based on what you said.


only, what does this mean?

COLOR: SLIGHT FANCY COLOR / VS 1- VS 2
COLOR: H

was it listed as an H or as a "slight fancy" color?
 
can we hear where you purchased this one from? I would like to know.
 
In the thread it shows a pic of the "loose stone" which is obviously not the same stone in the ring........
 
yikes! ebay india....that sounds like bad news, I hope this is going to be ok.
 
Date: 10/14/2007 1:36:06 AM
Author: kellyfish
In the thread it shows a pic of the 'loose stone' which is obviously not the same stone in the ring........

haha...yea I know, that loose stone was so ridiculously white. not to mention the shapes and cut are somewhat different...
 
I''m so sorry you are having to deal with this and that it appears there has been some deception. I have to say that the ring does look beautiful and very "artsy" on your wife''s finger. I hope that some of the pros here (I''m only a spectator) can help you.
 
Thanks for all the helpful replies- I am so grateful for the many quick andhelpful responses! This forum is awesome.
As to the Ebay India thing, this is not that stone! It''s the other ring that Ninama was asking about. I was a bit confused when I first read her post as well- the one I bought was someone selling her mother''s mother''s old ring...

Some more background on my wife''s taste in jewelry- she loves exotic and even ''ancient'' looking pieces. If it looks like it belongs in a museum case or right at home in the set design for an Indiana Jones movie, she''ll love it. I haven''t seen them, but probably any jewelry featured in ''Troy'' or Alexander'' would be just her cup of tea! She would be pairing this with antique gold snake thumb rings and an antique estate animal tooth necklace... so she''s definitely OK with something antique or unusual looking.

Also the color of the stone looks a lot lighter than in most of these pics- it''s slightly yellow-tinged, but not dark at all.

I can''t thak you all enough for the many helpful replies- I am going to start tracking down all the good leads you''ve given me here!
 
only, what does this mean?


COLOR: SLIGHT FANCY COLOR / VS 1- VS 2

COLOR: H


was it listed as an H or as a ''slight fancy'' color?
_______________________________________



It was listed as Slight Fancy Color but she told me in a separate email that the color was ''H''.
 
Date: 10/14/2007 1:22:58 AM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards
can we hear where you purchased this one from? I would like to know.


I purchased it from an individual seller on Ebay....

(I know, I know...)
 
are we talking ebay USA? is there a return policy stated? assuming there isn't

it does look good on her finger.

but, also I suppose that it is important where he lives, and how you paid. If you want to send it back maybe you can discuss the situation with him. Since it isn't a business I say keep your cool at all times. Discuss the things you have learned and what an independent appraiser has told you, or just what many jewelers have said I suppose, maybe even email him another copy of the email he sent you earilier with the appraisal and reemphasize the discrepancy again, and hopefullly you can find a few laws that might be in place to support you? Talk with him about how it looks to you like he misslead you but you are sure he didn't mean to. But, nonetheless, you were given inaccurate information, and so you feel that he should take it back. and if not you will have to follow all the normal routes, negative feedback with an explanation of the mis grading, reports to ebay, filling claims with whatever organization you used to pay etc etc. Then maybe give him something in return. Offer to pay shipping. Just to keep him calm and happy. Mention leaving neutral feedback in which you can give a quick recap and let everyone know that he settled the matter fairly, stuff like that. and if it really came down to it you might mention a minimal restocking fee of like 50 or 100 bucks or something if he seems like a real $%$#.

Maybe he will let you return it if he feels that he is getting a reasonable opportunity to come out of ahead without any negative consequences and still have a ring he can sell. These are just some first thoughts off the top of my mind, but I think it is a pretty reasonable first action?
 
Thank you WorkingHard,
this is good advice. Planning to do just that.
 
It seems the best place to begin is with telling the seller that the ring is not what they advertised and that you would like x number of days to get it appraised independently and determine its fair market value. If you feel you paid a fair price you''ll keep it, if not, you will return it for a full refund. You''re trying to make a decision but you dont have an independent appraisal yet. And to be honest, I wouldn''t trust theirs since they''ve obviously misrepresented it already to you. Personally, I wouldn''t want a large stone just for the sake of being large if it had two cracks or feathers or whatever those two jagged lines are in it. But then again, if your wife loves it already and wants to keep it, then it seems at this point the thing to do is make sure you didn''t pay too much, and then enjoy it for what it is, yes?
 
First off, let me second everything WHfSR and Surfgirl said!

The important thing here is that the two of you are happy with the ring ... on all levels. Which means the look (check), the price (?), and the durability (??).

Now, the first question, as far as I can tell, is whether you overpaid/could find something similar in better condition. NOT to be indelicate, and please feel free to ignore this if it makes you uncomfortable, but what ballpark was the sale price in? Was it in the neighborhood of either appraisal? A great many people on the board find appraisals and replacement value to have a tenuous relationship to one another at best: sometimes this can produce the illusion of having gotten a great deal, or cause issues with insurance, so you want to be sure that you have a realistic idea of the value. Get thee to an appraiser! It doesn''t really matter so much if your wife adores the ring and you don''t want to part with it, but if there''s a huge discrepancy between what you paid and what it''s worth, there might be a possibility of negotiating with the seller instead of the black/white of keeping/returning.

On to the second question ... you say that you can feel a slight "chip" on one side ... does this line up with one of the feathers? Or is it an actual chip on the girdle? Either way, fracture filling or repolishing could make the stone a little sturdier. But in order to know which one it is, if either is necessary, what good either course of action will do, etc., etc., you really need a formal appraisal, and then a consultation with someone who makes a living "rehabilitating" stones. Yehuda has a great reputation for enhancement, and most reputable appraisers/jewelers could probably recommend a decent cutter to you in the latter case. Good luck, and please let us know what happens!
 
Thank you so much SuferGirl and Circe,
Just to clarify, my wife is not permantly attached to this ring. We are both trying to decide whether or not to just ask for a partial refund (because it was not what was advertised- but I feel like getting a good appraisal will help solidify that claim- just need the time to get it done), or returning it altogether. We definitely like everything about the ring except for the obvious flaws. I am curious as to whether or not it could be ''enhanced'' ie repaired to look better. I''m not personally so concerned about that if we could actually get it to look much better. (I know many people want a totally natural stone, but I''d be happy to keep this one with a little ''healing'' if that makes sense). The chip on the side doesn''t line up with the feathers, it''s on the girdle like you guessed.
Hopefully I will be able to find a good ''rehabilitator''= I need more info on whether or not this is a case that could be fixed or not. If anyone has good resources on any of this for the LA area, please chime in!

Many thanks again.
 
Honestly, I would try my best to get a full refund and start from scratch.


I understand that your wife is artistic and likes things that are different and quirky. Good luck, it sounds like your wife will be happy no matter what the out come, so you are in a win win. Im guessing you didnt pay too much, so I wont judge on the value of the transaction. I hope you work it out to your advantage.
 
I would strongly advise not spending more money for an appraisal. I would definitely return it. You can do MUCH better if you deal with an honest dealer of old stones. Take a look here. There are fine quality old diamonds available from honest dealers.

http://www.singlestone.com/main.html
 
Thanks everyone- I am starting a new post to continue the saga....
 
Here''s the link to the update:
<a href="https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rose-cut-woes-help-me-please-update.70806/://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=70806
 
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