shape
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Help Me Find a ~4ct. Round Diamond

johnsmccoy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
11
Hello, all.

I am new to the forum (and to the expensive and often-confusing world of diamonds, more generally) and am hoping to get some much-needed assistance in my current search for a center stone for an engagement ring. I've done lots of research and have made two trips down to the diamond district here in LA to look at stones in person, so I'm pretty confident that I know what I'm looking for at this point, I just need to find it.

Here are the criteria I'm looking for:

Round
~ 4 ct.
~ 10 mm
G/H/I color
VS1/VS2 clarity

I'm looking to spend about $40,000 but could go up to $45,000 if need be. I realize that, at this price point, I'm probably looking at an I/VS2, but would obviously be happy to do better on either dimension. I'm also willing to go down to SI1, if it's eye-clean.

I'm ready to pull the trigger and am looking to purchase something ASAP - hopefully in the next week or two. I've looked on ebay (which I quickly discovered was just a bunch of different vendors selling the same virtual inventory for often significantly divergent prices), but am a bit stumped on where else I should be looking.

I will likely need to do this by internet/mail, as it's going to be nearly impossible for me to get back to the diamond district (or anywhere else) during business hours within the next month or so.

In terms of ebay sellers or other vendors who pull diamonds from the common database, are there any that stand out as having consistently better pricing / reputation / policies or being easier / more reliable to work with when purchasing from a distance?

What are some good online vendors who carry an "in house" inventory that's likely to have what I'm looking for? And what are the advantages of buying from this type of vendor (other than the fact that they currently have the diamonds in their possession and can more quickly provide you with additional information about any stones you might be interested in - e.g., IS, ASET, etc)?

Are there any vendors of either type that I should steer clear of?

Also, I'm going to be purchasing two 0.75 - 1.0 ct. side stones for the ring, as well. Is there a benefit to buying all three stones from the same vendor? Am I likely to get a better price by bundling them? Are there any vendors who would be particularly good to work with in putting together this type of three-stone package (i.e., can be trusted to match colors and willing to negotiate a good price)?

Many thanks in advance for your help. I've been impressed with the wealth of knowledge among posters during my short time lurking around here and would be thrilled to receive any advice you might be able to provide.
 
johnsmccoy|1334194692|3168944 said:
Hello, all.

I am new to the forum (and to the expensive and often-confusing world of diamonds, more generally) and am hoping to get some much-needed assistance in my current search for a center stone for an engagement ring. I've done lots of research and have made two trips down to the diamond district here in LA to look at stones in person, so I'm pretty confident that I know what I'm looking for at this point, I just need to find it.

Here are the criteria I'm looking for:

Round
~ 4 ct.
~ 10 mm
G/H/I color
VS1/VS2 clarity

I'm looking to spend about $40,000 but could go up to $45,000 if need be. I realize that, at this price point, I'm probably looking at an I/VS2, but would obviously be happy to do better on either dimension. I'm also willing to go down to SI1, if it's eye-clean.
a well cut 4ct GIA or AGS graded stone will probably be in the $75K range.
 
I have to ask...how big is the finger that this ring will be worn on???????????

6mm side + 10mm center + 6mm side = 22mm which is HUGE
 
Here is a J/VS2 3.50 AGS000
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465187.asp

And an I/SI 3.42 with decent deminsions.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1469654.asp

And a J/SI1 AGS Ideal 4.03
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465228.asp

I think you may be able to pull it off, but looking at james allen most of the 4 ct stones in your budget are really ugly.

I think the feedback you are going to get here though is to look a little bit smaller.

You could also consider an old cut diamond.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8391/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140/

Here are two more a little outside your budget.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2718769.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2718767.htm
 
06pvc|1334206361|3169059 said:
Here is a J/VS2 3.50 AGS000
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465187.asp

And an I/SI 3.42 with decent deminsions.
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1469654.asp

And a J/SI1 AGS Ideal 4.03
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1465228.asp


I think you may be able to pull it off, but looking at james allen most of the 4 ct stones in your budget are really ugly.

I think the feedback you are going to get here though is to look a little bit smaller.

You could also consider an old cut diamond.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8391/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140/

Here are two more a little outside your budget.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2718769.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2718767.htm

That 4 carat is an AGS ideal? What is wrong with it? In the pic it looks so wonky. It might look okay as a solitaire or a halo, but I'd be worried about how much that wonkiness would be apparent in contrast with the sidestones being so big. I don't think you can find two sides with the same wonk.

The I would be my choice among these choices. Your budget is low for what you want. Something is going to have to give.


You can ask the vendor about a discount for buying three stones. I'd stick to .70 pointers and avoid that .75 and 1 carat price jump and devote a bit more to the center stone.
 
Thanks to all for the helpful responses thus far.

It seems that I neglected to include some rather important information in my original post. The stones I was able to look at on my two trips to the diamond district were all EGL certified, so my grading criteria (G-I / VS1-VS2) were all arrived at based on EGL grading. I know that everyone here is going to tell me that I should only consider GIA diamonds, and I understand why (and it makes sense to me). I realize that I should have made sure to look at some GIA stones while I was there, but I didn’t.

So, this begs the question: How can I translate my in-person experience with EGL stones to comparable GIA grades? If I was comfortable with an EGL-graded I color, does that mean that I would be comfortable with a GIA-graded J? All of the EGL VS2’s I looked at were “eye clean” (as any VS2 should be). Can I expect that most GIA SI1’s will be similarly “eye clean”?

If those translations work, then what I’m really looking for is a GIA J/SI1 or better.

The links to suggested stones were extremely helpful. Please keep them coming.

Would also love more general guidance on particular vendors to target or avoid, so I can do a better job of searching for options myself.

Thanks again for all of your help.
 
BeachGirlG|1334203040|3169035 said:
I have to ask...how big is the finger that this ring will be worn on???????????

6mm side + 10mm center + 6mm side = 22mm which is HUGE

But, in fairness, HUGE is kind of what I'm looking for. That said, as Gypsy suggested, I think I'm now going to aim to keep the side stones under 0.70 ct. each. And the center stone doesn't have to be a full 10 mm, just something in that ballpark.
 
johnsmccoy|1334275290|3169712 said:
How can I translate my in-person experience with EGL stones to comparable GIA grades? If I was comfortable with an EGL-graded I color, does that mean that I would be comfortable with a GIA-graded J? All of the EGL VS2’s I looked at were “eye clean” (as any VS2 should be). Can I expect that most GIA SI1’s will be similarly “eye clean”?

You might find this helpful in comparing EGL to GIA and AGS: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamond-grading
 
johnsmccoy|1334275290|3169712 said:
Thanks to all for the helpful responses thus far.

It seems that I neglected to include some rather important information in my original post. The stones I was able to look at on my two trips to the diamond district were all EGL certified, so my grading criteria (G-I / VS1-VS2) were all arrived at based on EGL grading. I know that everyone here is going to tell me that I should only consider GIA diamonds, and I understand why (and it makes sense to me). I realize that I should have made sure to look at some GIA stones while I was there, but I didn’t.

So, this begs the question: How can I translate my in-person experience with EGL stones to comparable GIA grades? If I was comfortable with an EGL-graded I color, does that mean that I would be comfortable with a GIA-graded J? All of the EGL VS2’s I looked at were “eye clean” (as any VS2 should be). Can I expect that most GIA SI1’s will be similarly “eye clean”?

If those translations work, then what I’m really looking for is a GIA J/SI1 or better.

The links to suggested stones were extremely helpful. Please keep them coming.

Would also love more general guidance on particular vendors to target or avoid, so I can do a better job of searching for options myself.

Thanks again for all of your help.

For instance, here's a GIA J/SI1 I found that's toward th upper end of my price range:



And here's an EGL G/VS2 for around the same price:



How are these two stones likely to stack up against one another?

47768.jpg

46162.jpg
 
johnsmccoy|1334275547|3169715 said:
BeachGirlG|1334203040|3169035 said:
I have to ask...how big is the finger that this ring will be worn on???????????

6mm side + 10mm center + 6mm side = 22mm which is HUGE

But, in fairness, HUGE is kind of what I'm looking for. That said, as Gypsy suggested, I think I'm now going to aim to keep the side stones under 0.70 ct. each. And the center stone doesn't have to be a full 10 mm, just something in that ballpark.

but...3 ct with side stones is HUGE and 4 ct with side stones is just....SUPER HUGE. unless she has a size 12 finger. you want to make sure all of the diamonds fit on the ring and that she feels comfortable wearing it!
 
smoothmoose|1334276230|3169724 said:
johnsmccoy|1334275290|3169712 said:
How can I translate my in-person experience with EGL stones to comparable GIA grades? If I was comfortable with an EGL-graded I color, does that mean that I would be comfortable with a GIA-graded J? All of the EGL VS2’s I looked at were “eye clean” (as any VS2 should be). Can I expect that most GIA SI1’s will be similarly “eye clean”?

You might find this helpful in comparing EGL to GIA and AGS: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamond-grading

Very interesting. If I'm reading that right, EGL can be expected to be softer on color, but not necessarily on clarity.

What's wrong with this diamond?:

49826.jpg
 
you don't need a 4ct stone to reach 10mm in diameter. a well cut 3.75-3.90ct should be right about 10mm.
 
johnsmccoy|1334277135|3169746 said:
smoothmoose|1334276230|3169724 said:
johnsmccoy|1334275290|3169712 said:
How can I translate my in-person experience with EGL stones to comparable GIA grades? If I was comfortable with an EGL-graded I color, does that mean that I would be comfortable with a GIA-graded J? All of the EGL VS2’s I looked at were “eye clean” (as any VS2 should be). Can I expect that most GIA SI1’s will be similarly “eye clean”?

You might find this helpful in comparing EGL to GIA and AGS: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamond-grading

Very interesting. If I'm reading that right, EGL can be expected to be softer on color, but not necessarily on clarity.

What's wrong with this diamond?:

Or this one?:

45800.jpg
 
To further clarify I believe that study was done for EGL USA which is more reputable than the other branches of EGL I believe. Not sure the diamonds you are looking at are EGL USA or another branch.
 
Dancing Fire|1334277265|3169748 said:
you don't need a 4ct stone to reach 10mm in diameter. a well cut 3.75-3.90ct should be right about 10mm.

Yes, I've noticed that and have been including diamonds in that range in my search. There seem to be fewer of them out there, though (presumably b/c of the price jump when you hit 4 ct.). Any specific examples / suggestions you can share?
 
smoothmoose|1334277560|3169753 said:
To further clarify I believe that study was done for EGL USA which is more reputable than the other branches of EGL I believe. Not sure the diamonds you are looking at are EGL USA or another branch.

Ahhh, you see it didn't even occur to me that there would be differences among the different branches of EGL. These are the little nuggets I need. Keep 'em coming, folks!
 
johnsmccoy|1334277135|3169746 said:
smoothmoose|1334276230|3169724 said:
johnsmccoy|1334275290|3169712 said:
How can I translate my in-person experience with EGL stones to comparable GIA grades? If I was comfortable with an EGL-graded I color, does that mean that I would be comfortable with a GIA-graded J? All of the EGL VS2’s I looked at were “eye clean” (as any VS2 should be). Can I expect that most GIA SI1’s will be similarly “eye clean”?

You might find this helpful in comparing EGL to GIA and AGS: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamond-grading

Very interesting. If I'm reading that right, EGL can be expected to be softer on color, but not necessarily on clarity.

What's wrong with this diamond?:
stop wasting your time and money with these EGL European stones. a 45K budget will buy you a nice 3ct GIA stone.
 
About EGL USA...I read on one thread that EGL LA was a very good lab. EGL has H & A's as well. You can do a search on usacerteddiamonds.com for their Ideal H & A's and Ideal Plus H & A's. They have many in your price range but most are SI2'suntil you get over $40k then there are some SI 1's and a vs2....quite a few GIA's and AGS's as well. Nice search and their prices are some of the best online.

Been waiting for someone to buy an EGL Ideal Plus H & A and see the results in a ring.

I agree, if you are doing a 3 stone ring you could easily stay under 4c center and make a huge statement.

Good luck.

Here is a 5 stone ring with a 2.7c center...very nice:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-my-5-stone-8-prong-trellis-reset-by-dbl.170161/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/its-here-my-5-stone-8-prong-trellis-reset-by-dbl.170161/[/URL]
 
Gypsy|1334213164|3169093 said:


I'm going to VERY STRONGLY suggest this stone. 9.7mm is SUBSTANTIAL enough and very close to 10mm. It's an AGS stone with ideal light return. So it will have what we call "edge to edge" brightness and will LOOK as big as possible and as bright as possible.

You want huge, but I'm assuming you also want attractive.

How a diamond is CUT is the most important thing in it's appearance. I can honestly tell you, because my aunt wears one, that there is very little as ugly as a poorly cut 4 carat round. Every time I see hers I think -- wow that is one huge ugly rock.

Here's a brief visual on how cut affects performance. The red indicates light return. Where there is more red in the pictures, there is more light. Where there is white or black there is lack of light.

Also a poorly cut I color stone will look MORE yellow than an ideal cut J. Light return is what masks color. The better the light return, the better the masking of the color.

using_IS_Reference_Chart_72.jpg

I'm glad you decided to trust me on the 70 point issue. Now I'm really hoping you will trust me on this too.
 
If you are going to go with EGL I would not use their International graders. Use EGLUSA. You can do a search for EGLUSA H &A IDEAL PLUS on www.usacerteddiamonds.com Would be interesting to know if these were true H & A's Sometimes the hearts can look a little off if they are not true H & A's.

But they also have GIA and AGS which grade stricter. Especially AGS.
 
I agree with Gypsy...those J AGS stones will be awesome...J's face up pretty white and can be some of the very best diamonds for the price. AGS grading is the strictest on color so they could possibly be an I color if graded by GIA. Those 3 J's will make an awesome 3 stone ring.
 
I thought people say it's the opposite way around, that AGS can be soft on color compared to GIA, but AGS can be stricter on clarity than GIA?
 
TxnBluDvl|1334372017|3170673 said:
I thought people say it's the opposite way around, that AGS can be soft on color compared to GIA, but AGS can be stricter on clarity than GIA?

It's case by case. GIA is strictest period. AGS is very accurate but occasionally we have seen an appraiser with a one color grade quibble. However, that's based on appraiser opinion.

I don't know of an AGS stone that has been sent to GIA for regrade and had it come back a color off.

But we have seen EGL USA stones sent to GIA and come back up to 5 color grades but most commonly 2 grades off.
 
Hi there! I'm a long time lurker and this is my first post here. I thought I would chime in as I recently upgraded to a little over 4 ct. E-ring round brilliant. Pricescope was invaluable for us in provinding information before our purchase. I would stress cut above everything when you're looking for your round diamond. I'm always hesitant about EGL graded diamonds as my first engagement ring was EGL. At that time I had no idea the differences between the labs (this was about 10yrs ago). My husband bought a three stone emerald cut 3.5tcw, I, VVS1. Unfortunately, we didn't realize that EGL's grading was so loose and every appraisal that I got since was graded significantly lower and appraised for less than what he spent to purchase the ring. Long story short, please make sure to really study the specs of an EGL diamond before purchasing, I would hate for you to be in the same position that I was where we overpaid for an EGL ring. Therefore, for our upgrade, I definitely wanted a GIA diamond. Obviously tomget this we spent significantly more than your $40K budget. Funny enough my upgrade appraised for $25K more than what we paid! The exact opposite situation from my original e-ring.

Lastly, as other posters have asked, how big is her ring size? My diamond just about spans my entire finger, there is NO WAY side stones would fit. So just please make sure to check if three stones can actually fit the width of her finger. Good luck!
 
Thank you all so much for all the incredibly helpful advice. It has given me a lot to think about (much of which was not even on my radar), and I'm definitely feeling better informed and much better equipped to make this decision. And the suggestions for specific stones have been really great. In particular, the James Allen 3.51ct AGS J/VS2 that a few of you have recommended looks great and seems to tick all of my boxes - only very slightly under 10mm, which I was always OK with, but based on the feedback I've gotten, was perhaps a silly target to begin with. I could certainly do a whole lot worse than this, and I could easily see myself ending up with this stone or something very similar.

That said, one conclusion I've definitely come to is that I really need to see some more diamonds in person because the handful of EGL stones I've looked at haven't given me the frame of reference I need to understand / appreciate the landscape and what I should expect from a GIA/AGS diamond in the I/J and VS2/SI1 range (which is where I now have my sights set). So I'm going to head back to the diamond district in the morning and look at as many different examples as possible. I realize that Saturday is not the best day to do this (especially on such short notice), but it's really my only opportunity to get down there at this point. I'm planning to call around to a few places to try to set up some appointments before heading down there, but I could really use some guidance in terms of promising places to target.

Is there any place (or places) in the (LA) diamond district that you would recommend, which will both (i) be open tomorrow (Saturday); and (ii) have a decent variety of the types of diamonds I should be looking at?

Any recommendations at all would really be greatly appreciated.

And thanks again to everybody for continuing to be by far the most helpful resource I've found in this process.
 
johnsmccoy|1334404315|3170800 said:
Thank you all so much for all the incredibly helpful advice. It has given me a lot to think about (much of which was not even on my radar), and I'm definitely feeling better informed and much better equipped to make this decision. And the suggestions for specific stones have been really great. In particular, the James Allen 3.51ct AGS J/VS2 that a few of you have recommended looks great and seems to tick all of my boxes - only very slightly under 10mm, which I was always OK with, but based on the feedback I've gotten, was perhaps a silly target to begin with. I could certainly do a whole lot worse than this, and I could easily see myself ending up with this stone or something very similar.

That said, one conclusion I've definitely come to is that I really need to see some more diamonds in person because the handful of EGL stones I've looked at haven't given me the frame of reference I need to understand / appreciate the landscape and what I should expect from a GIA/AGS diamond in the I/J and VS2/SI1 range (which is where I now have my sights set). So I'm going to head back to the diamond district in the morning and look at as many different examples as possible. I realize that Saturday is not the best day to do this (especially on such short notice), but it's really my only opportunity to get down there at this point. I'm planning to call around to a few places to try to set up some appointments before heading down there, but I could really use some guidance in terms of promising places to target.

Is there any place (or places) in the (LA) diamond district that you would recommend, which will both (i) be open tomorrow (Saturday); and (ii) have a decent variety of the types of diamonds I should be looking at?

Any recommendations at all would really be greatly appreciated.

And thanks again to everybody for continuing to be by far the most helpful resource I've found in this process.


My best advice is to buy the J 3.51 from James Allen and with their fabulous return policy keep it for a week and see it in all light and take it to the LA Diamond district and see if you can find anything you like better. That's the best way for you to see what else is out there, but also have a stone that ticks everything you asked for so you can see how it performs in real life. And see how it performs under those jewelers lights that make even poorly cut diamonds look good.
 
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