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Help me evaluate a cushion ASET

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Hi all,

Just hoping I could use the collective wisdom on here to critique/evaluate a cushion ASET.

Gypsy helped me narrow down an amazing stone from GOG last time, I placed a deposit to have it called in - but unfortunately the stone sold.

I reached out to Mark T and he has the following option for me, which is one of the hard to track down 8 main cushions:



I like the dispersion and symmetry of the diamond, but I am concerned about the level of green around the edges of the diamond and also the level of light leakage.

Specs for reference: approx 1.4 carats, 6.85 x 6.70 x 4.35, G VVS2

Happy for suggestions of alternate loose stones from GOG, Mark T, JA/BN - the purchase will be through Jon or Mark though. The parameters are:
- modern cushion cut, she isn't wedded to a particular facet structure
- 1.3 carats or above, H or above, VS2 or above, symmetrical - spend between $10-12k USD.

I may have to pick up a H&A to get the optical performance I want, but I steered away from it because I don't want it looking like a round.

Any thoughts or opinions would be welcome.

cushions-officelight_gray-01.jpg

cushions-officelight_gray-02.jpg
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Garry H (Cut Nut)|1480388928|4103282 said:
Hi Garry, thanks for the reply.

Do I need to be concerned about the level of green in the aset and the leakage on the edges?

Will try and look at some older asets to get a gauge but won't have time to do so until later today.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,320
Wyer|1480390277|4103293 said:
Garry H (Cut Nut)|1480388928|4103282 said:
Hi Garry, thanks for the reply.

Do I need to be concerned about the level of green in the aset and the leakage on the edges?

Will try and look at some older asets to get a gauge but won't have time to do so until later today.
Yes, if you want a round cut.
No if you like this shape
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Garry H (Cut Nut)|1480391710|4103301 said:
Yes, if you want a round cut.
No if you like this shape
Thanks Garry - the boss has definitely ruled out a round!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
To met is a pass.
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Gypsy|1480396592|4103318 said:
To met is a pass.
Why is that? Too much light leakage? The dispersion of colours seems okay to me, just wish there was more red and less green..

It's been so difficult finding one that performs well, it's just unfortunate the one you helped point me towards sold.
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Charmypoo as the resident 8 main expert - any thoughts on the aset?

I've been looking through old PS post but can't find too many examples of 8 main asets.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Wyer|1480396908|4103320 said:
Gypsy|1480396592|4103318 said:
To met is a pass.
Why is that? Too much light leakage? The dispersion of colours seems okay to me, just wish there was more red and less green..

A number of reasons. Yes, it does have some leakage. But the problem for me is that the crown facets are largely green. I've seen stones like this in real life. Compared them to better performing stones and they look smaller than their dimensions. It's a waste of money for me. You want edge to edge brightness... this isn't the stone for you.

I am happy to look for stones for you. I don't know what your budget is or what you want for it. 10k ish and 1.5ish carats?

Skip hunting the 8 mains. There are very few excellent ones being cut. 8 mains waste more rough than 4 mains. I know you've read Charmy's posts. That was written years ago. It is a great thread and post. But since then cutters abroad have managed to cut 4 mains with fabulous performance, and less weight loss than 8 mains and are marketing those.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Gypsy|1480493535|4103662 said:
I am happy to look for stones for you. I don't know what your budget is or what you want for it. 10k ish and 1.5ish carats?
10k'ish is good, but can move to 12k if the stone is noticeably better.
Minimum carat size I would be after is 1.3, but it's the parameter I'm most flexible with.
Colour: H+
Clarity: VS

Gypsy|1480493535|4103662 said:
Compared them to better performing stones and they look smaller than their dimensions.
If this is the biggest drawback of the stone, I could live with it - as the spread on the stone seems pretty good to me. I'm more concerned with whether it is going to be sparkly enough.

Gypsy|1480493535|4103662 said:
They do that. We have lurkers. Let me know if you need another. Tis the season though... ;-)
If you come across any other options that would be welcome, would you rate the most recent one as an 'A' again though? The table (if my terminology' is correct doesn't seem as nice as the previous ones, but the symmetry is definitely there. Also, it's just on the border of being too elongated? Though I guess at 1.05 it would still pass off as square.

Thank you for consistently providing advice on this process for me.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
It's square, but yes at the edge of truly square. But cushions aren't princesses. They aren't supposed to be square. So there is no l/w ration "ideal". And frankly slightly elongated looks better on most fingers when set N/S.

Table is fine, absolutely fine. What we really worry about with table is the crown height, which is not found on any lab report, unfortunately. BUT... it visible on a video. This stone has a video and it shows a nice crown, which is where you get fire. The preference for smaller tables is because they usually (but not always) correlate with a higher crown. But you can easily get a 58 table with a lower crown than a 61 table.

You want sparkle and brightness, you focus on the video and the ASET. The numbers are fine. I promise. And, frankly, largely irrelevant except to identify potential issues like too thin girdle.

And that stone is going to have more sparkle and shine... with the bonus of actually looking more square than the other one.

Given your expanded specs, I'll post a couple others.

Carat weight is not what you should look at with cushions (or any fancy), it should be spread. A 1.3 carat can be larger than a 1.5 carat, with the right cutting. So watch the dimensions, not the carat weight.

I've seen a stone with this EXACT facet plan and almost identical ASET with a GOG hearts and arrows stone, person. I was with a GIA gemologist I respect with over 15 years of retail experience (and neither was his stone), and a newbie... and all three of us picked that stone over the H&A. The performance was different, the other stone looked and performed like a round. But the hearts and arrows was in no way 'better'.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Ask for an ASET if you like any of these (or ask GOG or other vendor if they can get the stone in for you, they often can, and I personally wouldn't buy a stone from a drop shipper if I had another option, even if it meant paying a bit more).

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-2242631
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.40-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-2230563


If you KNOW the person is actually happy with an H color stone... then shoot for that and up the size. If you are uncertain, you may want to play it safe. Color is very personal. Many are willing to give up a little on color to eek out size, but some aren't.
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Gypsy|1480499063|4103675 said:
Carat weight is not what you should look at with cushions (or any fancy), it should be spread. A 1.3 carat can be larger than a 1.5 carat, with the right cutting. So watch the dimensions, not the carat weight.

I've seen a stone with this EXACT facet plan and almost identical ASET with a GOG hearts and arrows stone, person. I was with a GIA gemologist I respect with over 15 years of retail experience (and neither was his stone), and a newbie... and all three of us picked that stone over the H&A. The performance was different, the other stone looked and performed like a round. But the hearts and arrows was in no way 'better'.
I've learnt this in your other posts, but I referenced carats since you mentioned it - I'm happy with a spread of 6.3 x 6.3 upwards.
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Gypsy|1480499948|4103678 said:
Ask for an ASET if you like any of these (or ask GOG or other vendor if they can get the stone in for you, they often can, and I personally wouldn't buy a stone from a drop shipper if I had another option, even if it meant paying a bit more).

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-2242631
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.40-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-2230563


If you KNOW the person is actually happy with an H color stone... then shoot for that and up the size. If you are uncertain, you may want to play it safe. Color is very personal. Many are willing to give up a little on color to eek out size, but some aren't.
Thanks Gypsy - I'm actually happy to pay Jon/Mark the premium for the service they have provided.

I know you have strongly advise that my girlfriend is involved and she has been involved as much as she wants to - she has contributed but she ultimately wants to be surprised. I'm going to assume she is happy with H or above - as she doesn't want to sit down and look at the colour grades and has left that to me.

She does want it to be fairly square though and I would think it also fits better with the harry winston esque halo.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Then all three should be fine, in terms of spread (the F is 6.22x6.67), color and clarity. There's nothing I'd worry about with any of them.

It's just a matter of relative performance. Yes, the original stone I posted (the H Vs2) is an A in performance. Definitely.

Unless someone asks me to, or forces me to I don't post stones I wouldn't buy for myself in terms of performance. And if I do, I'll preface it.

I recently lost my engagement ring. If I get a chance to replace it... and the shape, color and budget range are looking for is exactly what I would look for (6.5x6.8mm and up though in terms of spread). And these are exactly the stones I would consider for myself.

I personally wouldn't buy without an ASET on a white cushion. And, honestly, I'd strongly prefer to work with a vendor that is not a drop shipper and has someone that will look at the stone for me, so I'd ask one of them if they could call the stones in.

I'd probably just ask the vendor I wanted to do my setting, honestly. Who is doing your halo? I like that first H for a halo a lot. It will look great. And yes, I promise it will be square enough. I've been to HW. And many of theirs are rectangular.
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Gypsy|1480502058|4103682 said:
I'd probably just ask the vendor I wanted to do my setting, honestly. Who is doing your halo? I like that first H for a halo a lot. It will look great. And yes, I promise it will be square enough. I've been to HW. And many of theirs are rectangular.
I'm planning on having it made by Steven Kirsch after reading your posts, but SK hasn't been overly prompt on his email responses - maybe it's due to the xmas flurry? I'm not quite sure.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Call Yekutiel at IDJ, he has a hand forged bench. That's what I'd do.
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Gypsy|1480555519|4103907 said:
Call Yekutiel at IDJ, he has a hand forged bench. That's what I'd do.
Any reason to go with IDJ? As you along with other PSers seem quite happy with SK (though I did read the thread about the rubies).
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Wyer|1480576743|4103987 said:
Gypsy|1480555519|4103907 said:
Call Yekutiel at IDJ, he has a hand forged bench. That's what I'd do.
Any reason to go with IDJ? As you along with other PSers seem quite happy with SK (though I did read the thread about the rubies).

Pricing and timeline

Yes, I am very happy with SK's work on my engagement ring.

But this is a busy time. A VERY busy time. So, if you have a timeline to manage to, then SK may not work for you in terms of timing.
 

Wyer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
64
Hi Gypsy,

I ended up showing my girlfriend all the options as I couldn't decide, even though she wanted it to be romantic/surprise.

It's actually came down to two choices so if you could share your opinion that would be appreciated - it's actually down to 2 H&As.

Which would you recommend, the 1.7 attracts roughly a 20% price premium but based on IDEX reports both reflect a similar discount to the per carat cost.

1.57, I, VVS2
15092_aset_edit.jpg
gia_1_0.jpg

1.7, H, VS1
170hvs1b.jpg
gia_1_1.jpg

Thanks
 
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