Help!!! - How does this Ideal-Scope Look

[Jlafber]

I wanted to share this ideal-scope image with the community and get any comments?



The stone is a 1.51 Carat with the following measurements

Crown Angle 33
Pavilion Angle 41
Depth 59.9
Table 59

Thanks

 

[Karl_K]

excellent example of a 60/60 style diamond.
A little different look than a near tolk but they are very pretty in their own right.

 

[JulieN]

I'm impressed, looks very symmetrical.

 

[Jlafber]

Thanks everyone.

For comparison here is another Ideal-Scope image and notice the difference! They are both graded XXX by GIA however this imagine is for a stone with an HCA score of 4.9 and the first image has a score of 1.0. All very interesting.

 

[WinkHPD]

John pollard gave me some numbers a few months ago during a discussion about GIA XXX papers and GIA Very Good. The number of diamonds in the top two grades from GIA was simply ASTOUNDING. I do not wish to quote from memory from a months old discussion. I shall have to send him a link to this thread and ask him to repeat those numbers for us.

Most of the cut aficionados here will tell you that the GIA XXX rating is WAY too inclusive. I have looked at many that were HCA 5. It is getting worse too.

Since GIA allows very steep deep combos to make the XXX grade the current inventory on RAP is WAY heavy with steep deep diamonds.

I was doing a search for a specific 1.5 or so diamond for a client a couple of weeks ago. I found 32 diamonds that met her size, weight and grade criteria. Of those 32 stones 28 of them were too deep for my client's preferred depth range.

Think about it though. If you can save only an extra 0.01ct per stone (it's probably more) and still get a GIA XXX grade and you are cutting five thousand stones a month (Many of the big cutters do at least this) then that is 5,000 x 0.01 = 50 carats more weight of diamonds that you can sell. Even at a low rate of $1,000 per carat to allow for the fact that many of those stones will be less than a carat yet still big enough to get a report on that equates to a "bonus" of $50,000 for that month's worth of poorly cut diamonds that did not deserve the time of day from a serious cut lover.

By the way, I am making up the numbers. I do not know the average price per carat for these goods, nor do I know how many each or even any of the individual houses are cutting. I just know that they are cutting this way because they can not only get away with it, but because they get PAID to get away with it.

Now, those of you who know me know that I am constantly harping on "Buy the diamond not the paper" and here I am whining about the paper. Do you think maybe I might have seen a few thousand of these junkers in my 40+ years of selling diamonds? Do you think that when I put 5 stones on a slotted tray to look at them that my eyes do not instantly see and dismiss the one with a 62.3% depth?

It would be so easy just to sell the (expletive deleted) things to those who call me up wanting something cheap. But NOOOO, I keep thinking I have an obligation to educate and to serve up a platter of beauty instead of raking in the bucks.

Do stones that are cut properly cost more per carat? Of course they do, but if you want beauty as a side dish to your main course of diamond, then you have to pay for it.

Sorry, ranting. May I ask our original poster if the second stone, the one with the 4.9 HCA was the same size and quality of cut and color as the first? And if it was, was it cheaper or more expensive?

What is weird in this market is that depending on who is selling the diamond it may actually be more expensive than the first while it clearly should be less if based on the beauty of the diamond.

I guess the point of this post is after all the ranting: DO NOT DRINK THE COOL AID! You MUST look at the diamond before the transaction is final. If you are buying long distance, only do it if you can return the diamond for a reasonable period of time and with NO penalty for doing so.

Just my thoughts on a cold Saturday morning in Boise.

 

[c-k]

I really like the 60/60 stones.....

 

[spicyitalian]

Nice idealscope image.

 

[John P]

John pollard gave me some numbers a few months ago during a discussion about GIA XXX papers and GIA Very Good. The number of diamonds in the top two grades from GIA was simply ASTOUNDING. I do not wish to quote from memory from a months old discussion. I shall have to send him a link to this thread and ask him to repeat those numbers for us.

Hi Wink ~ and happy holidays, all.

Wink was referring to production-data taken from the largest cutting operations in 2011-2012 - going from memory. The teeth of the data was that more than 80% of all commonly produced RBCs fell into either EX or VG proportions.

Playing devil's advocate; this is a chicken-egg chase. Producers know sale-ability of VG remains strong in most retail outlets, whereas G-F-P is notably discounted. So it makes sense for cutting operations to target the top two grades, thus the high percentage.

But going back to 'angels advocate' (ho ho ho) a buyer who placed this petite E-IF beauty on their loved one's hand under bright jewelry store lights would quickly see the center-brightness fade away... like a melty snowman ...under normal lighting. I can't call that "Very Good" myself.



Poor little guy.

 

[WinkHPD]

John pollard gave me some numbers a few months ago during a discussion about GIA XXX papers and GIA Very Good. The number of diamonds in the top two grades from GIA was simply ASTOUNDING. I do not wish to quote from memory from a months old discussion. I shall have to send him a link to this thread and ask him to repeat those numbers for us.

Hi Wink ~ and happy holidays, all.

Wink was referring to production-data taken from the largest cutting operations in 2011-2012 - going from memory. The teeth of the data was that more than 80% of all commonly produced RBCs fell into either EX or VG proportions.

Playing devil's advocate; this is a chicken-egg chase. Producers know sale-ability of VG remains strong in most retail outlets, whereas G-F-P is notably discounted. So it makes sense for cutting operations to target the top two grades, thus the high percentage.

But going back to 'angels advocate' (ho ho ho) a buyer who placed this petite E-IF beauty on their loved one's hand under bright jewelry store lights would quickly see the center-brightness fade away... like a melty snowman ...under normal lighting. I can't call that "Very Good" myself.



Poor little guy.

More than 80% in the top two cut grades for GIA? That's even worse than I remembered you having told me and it is a truly disgusting number. I was remembering 60%, probably because it's just too painful to contemplate that any reputable lab with over 80% of the diamonds on the market in their top two cut grades. Sigh.

Obviously, it is working for the masses of retail jewelers out there or GIA would not be the most popular lab on the planet. I was fortunate enough to have a nice conversation with Peter Yantzer, the Executive Director of the AGS lab the other day, and he tells me that their business is picking up strongly.

They have worked so hard and so diligently to build a meaningful cut grade that I am glad to see it is finally beginning to be properly recognized.

Thank you John for bringing us this information.

Wink

 

[yssie]

*deleted.
I'm tetchy this afternoon.

 

[WinkHPD]

*deleted.
I'm tetchy this afternoon.

Dang, I was just trying to figure out how to respond to this. I have thoughts and would love to discuss it with you on the phone if you have a mind to do so. Since you have deleted your post I will say no more than that.

Wink

 

[yssie]

*deleted.
I'm tetchy this afternoon.

Dang, I was just trying to figure out how to respond to this. I have thoughts and would love to discuss it with you on the phone if you have a mind to do so. Since you have deleted your post I will say no more than that.

Wink

Wink, my apologies for the delayed response - we had DH's manager and family over for dinner and my cooking is... well, generally exceptional - in one form or another! Fortunately everything turned out well. And now I find myself eating humble pie on my pet forum - my response, though directed at you, wasn't truly intended the way it came out - your post just happened to be my scapegoat and I apologise for that, too

I'd love to talk more with you. I'll give you a couple of days to see this and respond, and call in if I don't see one by then

 

[WinkHPD]

Yssie, I was in no way offended, but to discuss the concept in your original reply would take me more typing than my hands can take right now. (carpal tunnel surgery in both wrists, two weeks apart.) And the concepts might totally confuserate my Dragon Speaking Naturally software, or worse, I would fail to catch one of the words it changed and make my reply unintelligible.

Call me when you have time, preferably after the 1st of the year and we can debate it over a glass of wine. By then my hands will have healed sufficiently to allow me to "speak" with them at length. Please save the link to your sample stone, I want to run it through Diamcalc when I can access it again and see what the ASET and IS might look like.

Have a wonderful evening.

Wink

 

[yssie]

Yssie, I was in no way offended, but to discuss the concept in your original reply would take me more typing than my hands can take right now. (carpal tunnel surgery in both wrists, two weeks apart.) And the concepts might totally confuserate my Dragon Speaking Naturally software, or worse, I would fail to catch one of the words it changed and make my reply unintelligible.

Call me when you have time, preferably after the 1st of the year and we can debate it over a glass of wine. By then my hands will have healed sufficiently to allow me to "speak" with them at length. Please save the link to your sample stone, I want to run it through Diamcalc when I can access it again and see what the ASET and IS might look like.

Have a wonderful evening.

Wink

It's a date for after the 1st, I'll find myself a good bottle of Malbec

I'm sorry to hear about your wrists - I hope your recovery progresses smoothly and quickly! Thank you for taking my post with the pinch of salt it needed, and no worries about saving the stone info - it's been in my folder for over a year now.

Re. Dragon - I haven't any experience with it but my mother-in-law swears by it. I recently left a message for a coworker which Google Voice translated quite poorly - "I'll give it a try and I'll call you back" somehow turned into "I love you and I can't wait to get hold of you", so I've learnt caution

 

[WinkHPD]

Yssie, I was in no way offended, but to discuss the concept in your original reply would take me more typing than my hands can take right now. (carpal tunnel surgery in both wrists, two weeks apart.) And the concepts might totally confuserate my Dragon Speaking Naturally software, or worse, I would fail to catch one of the words it changed and make my reply unintelligible.

Call me when you have time, preferably after the 1st of the year and we can debate it over a glass of wine. By then my hands will have healed sufficiently to allow me to "speak" with them at length. Please save the link to your sample stone, I want to run it through Diamcalc when I can access it again and see what the ASET and IS might look like.

Have a wonderful evening.

Wink

It's a date for after the 1st, I'll find myself a good bottle of Malbec

I'm sorry to hear about your wrists - I hope your recovery progresses smoothly and quickly! Thank you for taking my post with the pinch of salt I neglected to send with it, and no worries on saving the stone info - it's been in my folder for over a year now.

Re. Dragon - I haven't any experience with it but my mother-in-law swears by it. I recently left a message for a coworker which Google Voice translated quite poorly - "I'll give it a try and I'll call you back" somehow turned into "I love you and I can't wait to get hold of you", so I've learnt caution

LOL! Sounds better than some of the translations I get! Dragon is way better than the current iteration of Google Voice, but at least with Google Voice you can listen to the actual message if you don't like the transcript... However, Dragon does not yet speak gemology, especially the esoteric minutia that we eagerly seek out here.

I will be drinking a delightful Zinfandel from a small winery in Paso Robles. We shall have a grand time!

Wink

P.S. The doctor took the stitches out of my left hand this morning and was very pleased with my progress. Frankly, I am too. From constant tingling and frequent pain I am now with complete feeling in my hands and regaining my dexterity quickly. I will be spending Christmas day and the following week with my daughter's family in LA and playing with my 7 month old Ellie Lou should just about make me too happy to notice if they are not perfectly healed by then. They feel so much better already that I am very glad to have finally done it.

 

[yssie]

Yssie, I was in no way offended, but to discuss the concept in your original reply would take me more typing than my hands can take right now. (carpal tunnel surgery in both wrists, two weeks apart.) And the concepts might totally confuserate my Dragon Speaking Naturally software, or worse, I would fail to catch one of the words it changed and make my reply unintelligible.

Call me when you have time, preferably after the 1st of the year and we can debate it over a glass of wine. By then my hands will have healed sufficiently to allow me to "speak" with them at length. Please save the link to your sample stone, I want to run it through Diamcalc when I can access it again and see what the ASET and IS might look like.

Have a wonderful evening.

Wink

It's a date for after the 1st, I'll find myself a good bottle of Malbec

I'm sorry to hear about your wrists - I hope your recovery progresses smoothly and quickly! Thank you for taking my post with the pinch of salt I neglected to send with it, and no worries on saving the stone info - it's been in my folder for over a year now.

Re. Dragon - I haven't any experience with it but my mother-in-law swears by it. I recently left a message for a coworker which Google Voice translated quite poorly - "I'll give it a try and I'll call you back" somehow turned into "I love you and I can't wait to get hold of you", so I've learnt caution

LOL! Sounds better than some of the translations I get! Dragon is way better than the current iteration of Google Voice, but at least with Google Voice you can listen to the actual message if you don't like the transcript... However, Dragon does not yet speak gemology, especially the esoteric minutia that we eagerly seek out here.

I will be drinking a delightful Zinfandel from a small winery in Paso Robles. We shall have a grand time!

Wink

P.S. The doctor took the stitches out of my left hand this morning and was very pleased with my progress. Frankly, I am too. From constant tingling and frequent pain I am now with complete feeling in my hands and regaining my dexterity quickly. I will be spending Christmas day and the following week with my daughter's family in LA and playing with my 7 month old Ellie Lou should just about make me too happy to notice if they are not perfectly healed by then. They feel so much better already that I am very glad to have finally done it.

I'm glad to hear it!! And just in time too - goodness knows you're going to need both hands to keep the kiddo in the safe zone on the bed

 

[Dreamer_D]

I wanted to share this ideal-scope image with the community and get any comments?



The stone is a 1.51 Carat with the following measurements

Crown Angle 33
Pavilion Angle 41
Depth 59.9
Table 59

Thanks

This first one here is a nice looking IS image, combined with the GIA grade and the HCA score, you have a stone worth seeing in person!

 

[WinkHPD]

Yssie, I was in no way offended, but to discuss the concept in your original reply would take me more typing than my hands can take right now. (carpal tunnel surgery in both wrists, two weeks apart.) And the concepts might totally confuserate my Dragon Speaking Naturally software, or worse, I would fail to catch one of the words it changed and make my reply unintelligible.

Call me when you have time, preferably after the 1st of the year and we can debate it over a glass of wine. By then my hands will have healed sufficiently to allow me to "speak" with them at length. Please save the link to your sample stone, I want to run it through Diamcalc when I can access it again and see what the ASET and IS might look like.

Have a wonderful evening.

Wink

It's a date for after the 1st, I'll find myself a good bottle of Malbec

I'm sorry to hear about your wrists - I hope your recovery progresses smoothly and quickly! Thank you for taking my post with the pinch of salt I neglected to send with it, and no worries on saving the stone info - it's been in my folder for over a year now.

Re. Dragon - I haven't any experience with it but my mother-in-law swears by it. I recently left a message for a coworker which Google Voice translated quite poorly - "I'll give it a try and I'll call you back" somehow turned into "I love you and I can't wait to get hold of you", so I've learnt caution

LOL! Sounds better than some of the translations I get! Dragon is way better than the current iteration of Google Voice, but at least with Google Voice you can listen to the actual message if you don't like the transcript... However, Dragon does not yet speak gemology, especially the esoteric minutia that we eagerly seek out here.

I will be drinking a delightful Zinfandel from a small winery in Paso Robles. We shall have a grand time!

Wink

P.S. The doctor took the stitches out of my left hand this morning and was very pleased with my progress. Frankly, I am too. From constant tingling and frequent pain I am now with complete feeling in my hands and regaining my dexterity quickly. I will be spending Christmas day and the following week with my daughter's family in LA and playing with my 7 month old Ellie Lou should just about make me too happy to notice if they are not perfectly healed by then. They feel so much better already that I am very glad to have finally done it.

I'm glad to hear it!! And just in time too - goodness knows you're going to need both hands to keep the kiddo in the safe zone on the bed

In the light of morning after a good night's sleep, I do want to say I misspoke in one important word. I said, "debate," which implies I mean to sway you to my point of view. That should have been, "discuss," which I hope implies that I want to hear why you like that stone so I can better understand what about that cutting it is that makes your eyes happy.

Wink