Help grade this VS1 diamond with an EGL USA cert

[garek007]

Hi,

In a couple days, I will try to post IS and ASET images, but for now, can some of you please comment on these numbers and let me know what you think?

71.2 depth 69 table with
Excellent Polish, Very Good Symmetry,
medium girdle
no fluorescence and
measures 5.59 x 5.57 x 3.98 mm.
crown height of 12%

I was looking at a VVS1 color G that I was in love with, still am. Looking at the GIA grading report plot I can only see two small inclusions on the bottom of the diamond. But after doing some more reading I am realizing that maybe I should be lower clarity, VS1, still color G, and save some $$$ for the setting.

The only caveat with this diamond is that it is graded by EGL USA so I''m worried about the color. Even the salesperson said they are not as stringent and so it may not be a true G. But would it still be better than H?

So can you please comment, first on the dimensions, then on the EGL cert, your opinion?
Oh, and it''s a princess cut.

 

[JeraVae]

The dimensions sound pretty good, which will actually help the diamond look whiter. It is true that EGL is not as strict with grading as GIA is, so it may be closer to an H. Keep in mind that the difference between the G and H will be very small. Also, since the cut is good, it might look like a G face up.

I''m like you, I prefer to save money on clarity. Eye clean is eye clean. The only time I would really push for higher clarity would be for an asscher or emerald cut; but in princess I am always fine with Si1 or higher.

 

[Dreamer_D]

So this is a G VS1? EGL has different labs, which one is this, do you know?

Have you seen it in person? EGL can be off by as much as 2 color grades, so it may be more of an I color by GIA standards. You don''t actually save money with EGL diamonds when you correct for the grading differences.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/16/2010 12:25:20 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
So this is a G VS1? EGL has different labs, which one is this, do you know?

Have you seen it in person? EGL can be off by as much as 2 color grades, so it may be more of an I color by GIA standards. You don''t actually save money with EGL diamonds when you correct for the grading differences.

Ditto Dreamer, also we can''t tell anything from the basic proportions unfortunately, images such as ASET and detailed photos are essential in order to judge the cut so if you could post them that would be helpful.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/15/2010 9:14:42 PM
Author: JeraVae
The dimensions sound pretty good, which will actually help the diamond look whiter. It is true that EGL is not as strict with grading as GIA is, so it may be closer to an H. Keep in mind that the difference between the G and H will be very small. Also, since the cut is good, it might look like a G face up.

I'm like you, I prefer to save money on clarity. Eye clean is eye clean. The only time I would really push for higher clarity would be for an asscher or emerald cut; but in princess I am always fine with Si1 or higher.

Hi Jera,

I just wanted to comment here that we have no way of knowing the cut quality of this diamond from the limited info we have, also it is possible that the cut is not of such a high standard that might help the stone face up whiter than its colour grade, and especially as we don't know the accuracy of the grading anyway.

I hope you don't mind me jumping in there with a different opinion but I just wanted to clarify for the original poster and for those reading.

 

[garek007]

It is EGL USA. I''m hoping to get ASET and IS images today. I will post when I get them. Thanks!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Ditto to what Lorelei said.

It is impossible to say anything (good or bad) about this diamond''s cut-quality. Probably the only thing that can be said, is that it is square.

As for colour- and clarity-grade, who knows how accurate that will be? If the stone is H-VS2 instead of G-VS1, the basic value is at least 25% lower.

Live long,

 

[garek007]

I have noticed that EGL diamonds are cheaper. Would it just be better and easier to steer away from EGL certified diamonds? After all, this is stuff I am looking at online, where when I can''t see the diamond itself, the numbers really matter.

 

[elle_chris]

I''m confused. In your first post you said the "GIA" grading report showed two small inclusions. Then you said you''re concered about the EGL report being off on the color. Are these 2 different stones or was that a typo? Also, is this a VVS1 or VS1?

Also, you said you love the stone but you''re looking online. Have you actually seen the stone? If this is through an online vendor and if it''s an EGL, they can tell you if the grading''s off.

(maybe i haven''t had enough coffee yet but i''m very confused).

 

[anitabee]

fyi: i have an EGL USA princess cut and it's more than fine. a lot of peeps here will only accept gia or ags and that's great but it you really like it, have compared the color to let's say, a gia of the same color grade then you shouldn't have to worry.

after gia & ags, EGL USA is the next best thing. i'm truly in love with my egl usa princess which, by the way is an i, si1. i've compared the color to "better" lab graded diamonds and mine is graded accordingly. interestingly enough, i've had 2 jewellers inspect my ring and have both assumed it's a vs. i truly cannot see any inclusions at 10X. i keep looking and looking, and nada!

if it's a great deal, then, hey! go for it! egl usa is way more respected than igi or any non-usa lab of egl.

i guarantee i'm gonna get at least 3 people strongly dispute what i say. peeps here are fiercely loyal to ags & gia.

 

[elle_chris]

Anita- no dispute. I''m sure EGL hits it right alot of the time. But what I''ve noticed is when EGL is right, the price is on par with GIA. In other words, it''s not gonna be discounted. I''d have no issue getting an EGL diamond IF the price for a well cut stone was cheaper than GIA/AGS, and it was accurately graded.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Anita,

Also I am not disagreeing with you, but your being right does not make me wrong.

You may indeed have a stone graded by EGL-USA, which is right on the mark, but having seen dozens of other diamonds graded by the same lab in the past year, I know that I cannot rely my personal purchasing-decision on the grade being correct. In fact, I have not seen one graded correctly, but that does not mean that yours is not.

Just to give you an idea about colour-grading, I feel uncomfortable if I cannot grade a stone under my own lamp, at my own desk, and preferably in the morning. That also shows to some extent the exaggeration of the importance of the colour-grade visually, but since one grade difference often makes a 10% difference in value, it remains very important to do it correctly.

With all that said, there is no way that I can express what G-VS1 means on this particular stone. The potential difference in value is 25 to 30%, and that is far too much to warrant the gamble in my book.

Live long,

 

[garek007]

thanks for all the help.

OK, so let me clarify.

Last week I thought I''d found my stone it was:
PRINCESS CUT 1.05ct for $5221
GIA cert
VVS1
G
table 69%
depth 71.5%
crown height: 8.5%
girdle: medium
polish: very good
symmetry: very good
5.65x5.65x4.04mm


Then I started noticing posts here that say VVS1 may be a waste of money since you can get a VS1 or VS2 for less and usually cannot see the inclusions.
So I looked again and found this one
PRINCESS CUT 1.04ct for $3798
EGL USA cert
VS1
G
table 69%
depth 71.2%
crown height 12%
girdle: medium to sl thick polished
polish:excellent
symmetry:very good
5.59x5.57x3.98mm

The lower price will help me spend more on a setting...
The cutter they use has several EGL USA VS1 G diamonds and will compare them all side by side to tell me which is the best one. Then he will ship it to Union Diamond where they will compare it with the VVS1 they are already holding for me.

One thing I''ve noticed is that the crown height on the second stone (EGL USA) is higher and according to ideal princess cut specs, it should look more lively. I read that the ideal range was between 10-15% for princess cut. The first stone, the VVS1, only has an 8.5% crown which is still good, but not ideal.

If the EGL USA VS1 G really does match up in color and is eye-clean, I''m thinking based on the proportions that it will perform better. Your thoughts?

 

[JeraVae]

I don''t mind at all

I am learning something new and very happy to have your. From what I understood if the symmetry and cut were pretty good, then light performance would always be good. Is that not always true?

Sorry if I''m hijacking, if I need to ask this question in another place let me know.

 

[stone-cold11]

No way to tell the cut performance from numbers, maybe a better chance of it being a better performer but that is all that can be said until we see an ASET image.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 2/16/2010 4:14:59 PM
Author: JeraVae
I don''t mind at all

I am learning something new and very happy to have your. From what I understood if the symmetry and cut were pretty good, then light performance would always be good. Is that not always true?

Sorry if I''m hijacking, if I need to ask this question in another place let me know.

Not the case with princess as only AGS grades princess in cut performance. So whatever cut grade assigned to this EGL stone is by the vendor and is not really an objective grade that can be translated to other stones.

 

[garek007]

will have ASET and IS tomorrow

 

[garek007]

Ok, finally have pics. I''m going to only upload the ASET and IS images for each, but I''m not going to tell you which is which. Could you please lend me your thoughts on which looks better? Thanks!

 

[garek007]

ASET1

 

[garek007]

IS1

 

[garek007]

ASET 2

 

[garek007]

IS2

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/16/2010 4:14:59 PM
Author: JeraVae
I don't mind at all

I am learning something new and very happy to have your. From what I understood if the symmetry and cut were pretty good, then light performance would always be good. Is that not always true?

Sorry if I'm hijacking, if I need to ask this question in another place let me know.

Hi Jera,

I am glad you don't mind me just jumping in there, its not easy to accept advice graciously unfortunately, but thats great to have newer posters that are so willing to learn and I will gladly help you, all you have to do is ask. Or if I don't know the answer I will point you towards someone that does.

Also you are not threadjacking, your questions are relevant to the thread.

It isn't the case that good symmetry and polish will guarantee any level of cut quality, you could have a stone with excellent s&p which doesn't have great optical performance. What to look for with Princess - as you can't judge by numbers so much with these - are images such as ASET which show the light return of the stone. To narrow the field then look at AGS0 cut grade Princess, these should be well cut Princess, AGS are at this time the only lab to grade Princess for light performance.

Here are a couple of links that will help you,

ASET symmetry and polish

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Garek

I think out of the two I prefer the second but its a close call.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/16/2010 9:22:43 AM
Author: anitabee
fyi: i have an EGL USA princess cut and it's more than fine. a lot of peeps here will only accept gia or ags and that's great but it you really like it, have compared the color to let's say, a gia of the same color grade then you shouldn't have to worry.

after gia & ags, EGL USA is the next best thing. i'm truly in love with my egl usa princess which, by the way is an i, si1. i've compared the color to 'better' lab graded diamonds and mine is graded accordingly. interestingly enough, i've had 2 jewellers inspect my ring and have both assumed it's a vs. i truly cannot see any inclusions at 10X. i keep looking and looking, and nada!

if it's a great deal, then, hey! go for it! egl usa is way more respected than igi or any non-usa lab of egl.

i guarantee i'm gonna get at least 3 people strongly dispute what i say. peeps here are fiercely loyal to ags & gia.

Anita, I just wanted to add that really unless you are a trained diamond grader, trying to judge the accuracy of the colour of a set diamond isn't really possible unfortunately as there are so many factors which come into play. But thats great you are happy with your diamond, have you posted photos?

Also I wouldn't say we here are ' fiercely' loyal to AGS or GIA, its more a case of advising consumers that these two labs have the best record for grading accuracy. Thats not to say that there aren't any properly graded EGL stones out there, any poster who prefers to stick with EGL can certainly do so but we always advise to make any sale final on such diamonds checking out with an independant appraisal to make sure the grading is accurate.

Sorry to have to be one of those disputing what you said Anita!!!

 

[garek007]

any experts care to comment on the images? do I need to make a new post?

 

[stone-cold11]

Ditto Lorelei.

 

[garek007]

but what about the images I posted? which one is better stone cold?

 

[stone-cold11]

I meant the images, I agree with Lorelei. Are both from the same vendor?

 

[garek007]

oops, I must've missed her comment, sorry! yes they are both Union Diamonds and she tells me they are the same cutter. She said the G EGL USA diamond really does look more like an H and more people in her office picked the GIA G diamond.

But is it worth paying 1500 more for slightly less color? It's between H and G and the VS1 has a few more inclusions, but they say it is eye clean.