Help finding a pink tourmaline

[andla]

Hey,

I am looking for purchase an oval tourmaline, to have a ring made for, but I know absolutely nothing about tourmaline grading. I also saw that sometimes the stones are called pink tourmalines and other times rubellites. What, if anything, is the difference? I am looking for the stone to be between 1 and 2.5 carats. I found two online that I am considering, so comments on those would be great as well. The first is as follows:

- Identification: Natural Unheated & Untreated Pink Tourmaline (Rubellite)

- Carat: 2.32

- Shape: Oval

- Measures: 7.40x9.39x5.14 (millimeter)

- Color Grade: Very Good

- Tone: MD55

- Color Zoning: None

- Clarity: Very Lightly Included (see comment)

- Cutting Grade: Good

o Brilliancy: 75%

o Depth: 69%

- Origin: Mozambique

- Treatment: None

http://pj.b5z.net/i/u/2102552/i/rto232-brl.jpg


The second is:

- Identification: Pink Tourmaline

- Carat: 2.22

- Shape: Oval

- Measures: 7.07x8.79x5.25 (millimeter)

- Color Grade: Excellent

- Tone: Medium 60

- Color Zoning: None

- Clarity: Free of Inclusions

- Cutting Grade: Very Good

o Brilliancy: 75%

o Depth: 75%

- Origin: Pamir Mountains, Pakistan

- Treatment: None

http://pj.b5z.net/i/u/2102552/i/pito222-brl.jpg

Anyway, ANY help or suggestions would be awesome. Thanks.

 

[T L]

I dislike those photos intensely, and I think I know who they're from. I really wish that vendor would change their photo setup. It would be nice if he could use reveal lighting and take clearer photos. The bright lighting actually tends to form dark regions and bright regions on the stone which for me, doesn't appropriately give me a true sense of the body color.

What did he say about the color change in various lighting. Are you looking for a pink tourmaline that shifts to a more orange color? Most do that, and the ones that hold their pink color better, are more prized in the trade.

I hope they're not overpriced. You do know that treatment isn't always verifiable on these gems, right?

Rubellite is a marketing name for reddish tourmaline. I've never seen a pure red tourmaline, so I use the word "reddish." Most are purplish red though.

 

[andla]

They are both around $600, and I have just emailed to try to get some more information. However, is there any vendor in particular that you have had good experiences with for this type of stone? I tried to pick one off of the recommended list here on Pricescope for colored stones, but there were honestly way too many sites to check them all.

As for the color descriptions, the Pakistani stone is described as Reddish Lavender Pink (purplish pink at day, reddish pink at night), and the Mozambique stone is described as Rich Purplish Pink.

 

[T L]

They are both around $600, and I have just emailed to try to get some more information. However, is there any vendor in particular that you have had good experiences with for this type of stone? I tried to pick one off of the recommended list here on Pricescope for colored stones, but there were honestly way too many sites to check them all.

Are you concerned about treatment?

The only person I've ever had a good rubellite experience with (a very saturated hot pink/red stone without any orange undertones) is Bob Kast.

Very fine rubellite that is untreated and without orange is very pricey, and I have a 1.1 carat stone from Bob Kast that while small, can be seen from across a room. If you're really picky about color, the search might go on for a while. Bob Kast obtained some rare Nigerian rough and it does not shift color (some does, but his finer pieces do not). However, the stones are typically small. I have a few stones from him, with the 1.1 carat being the finest. He was very reasonably priced too. His website is Bobkast.com. Most of his gems are okay, but his rubellites and pink tourmalines from his Nigerian source are very nice. Beware of very large clean gems, as most natural and non-orange rubellite is included (there are specific inclusions like needles) and I am always suspect of heating/irradiation when I do see a large clean gem, although I'm sure some do exist that are untreated.

If you're not really picky about color and/or treatment, I think most vendors will do for a pink tourmaline or rubellite. Oh, and check AJSgems.com. I think someone here bought a nice rubellite from them. Always ask about the orange and the color shift though, if that matters to you.

This is my 1.1 carat from Bob Kast. It can go deeper red in some lighting.

 

[andla]

Your ring is gorgeous and thanks so much for the reply. That gives me a lot to go on. I will also definitely check out the sites you recommended.

 

[chrono]

Those pictures are very distinctive so I believe my guess of who the vendor is to be correct. The way he does his photography makes it difficult for me to even guess at the true colour of the gem with so much lighting/reflection. Neither stand out to me and in fact, personally, are not something I consider a rubellite at all, based on the 2 pictures posted. It could be redder IRL though. When someone says rubellite, I expect to see a stone with red as the primary colour with a purple secondary. Just like pink tourmalines, some shift to a redder colour under incandescent lighting and others show more orange. Those that shift to a stronger red are prized more than the orange version and are usually priced accordingly. However, this is your choice as to which you prefer as long as you are aware of the pricing difference.

 

[andla]

At this point, I would prefer a stone with a more pinkish hue than one with a reddish (so I guess I am moving away from what would be considered a rubellite). A couple of people have mentioned that they are familiar with this vendor. Has anyone worked with them or heard good/bad things? Also, I am just starting to get up to speed on the pricing of these stones, but, based on the "specs" is around $600 reasonable? Thanks again for all of the help.

ALSO, I just got the update on the color shifting. Apparently both shift to pink/red, though he indicated that the Pakistani stone is a better stone. They also both come with TGL grading reports. Does anyone know anything about them (reputable/not reputable)? Finally, I also asked about the issue in terms of being certain the stones have not been treated or enhanced in any way. The vendor indicated that to avoid that risk they purchase untreated rough stones and cut them themsevles.

Thoughts?

 

[T L]

What is TGL? Tokyo Gem Lab? The only grading report that has any credence with me for colored stones is AGL (American Gem Lab). If the stone is just verified to be natural, then there are other reputable gem labs that can do that like AIGS, GIT, GIA, GRS, SSEF.

 

[andla]

TGL is Japan Technical Gem Laboratory Co. Ltd., and my understanding is the stone is accompanied by a full grading report.

 

[chrono]

I find Bob Kast to have awesome pink tourmalines that are well cut with great saturation for very little $. A 1 ct pink tourmaline starts at around $100. The pink that I own does not shift at all from indoors to outdoors. I have not ordered or purchased from this vendor because I am unsure of how to gauge the colour in his pictures and do not wish to spend the money on shipping it back and forth. I am unfamiliar with TGL but that doesn’t mean anything. Let me do a little research on them.

ETA
Ah, Tokyo Gem Lab. If you are concerned with it being a real and natural stone, that is sufficient. In terms of treatment, irradiation seems to be almost impossible to detect so a lab memo is essentially useless if that is your worry.

I am a poor photographer so you’ll have to excuse the facet glare and I could not capture the intensity of colour at all, but this unfortunately, is my best picture (the rest are smudged or blurry)

 

[T L]

TGL is Japan Technical Gem Laboratory Co. Ltd., and my understanding is the stone is accompanied by a full grading report.

I never heard of them, so I cannot comment on how reliable the information is on that report. They do have a webpage, but honestly, I only trust AGL. They are very conservative and give appropriate grading values for color quality. The problem is that I cannot match up the color quality values on the grading report in your top posting with the photos, which look inferior to the grading designated. For example, the second stone has a color grade of "Excellent." If that stone depicted in the photo is "Excellent" for pink tourmaline, I would have to disagree (I've seen quite a bit of pink tourmaline in my life). Maybe the vendor can take more photos of true representations of the color of the gem as based on that report.

http://gci-labs.com/japanlab.html

 

[T L]

This is Cellentani's pink tourmaline from Bob Kast highlighted in this thread. She takes amazing photos.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pink-tourmaline-pendant-from-nyc-plus-apatite.146635/

 

[andla]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I checked on his website, but he doesn't seem to have anything in the shape/size that I am looking for. I think I am still stuck on this 2.22 carat stone, but from what I have seen the $600 price tag seems pretty high for this type of stone. Are you all aware of any good resources for pricing these things?

 

[T L]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I checked on his website, but he doesn't seem to have anything in the shape/size that I am looking for. I think I am still stuck on this 2.22 carat stone, but from what I have seen the $600 price tag seems pretty high for this type of stone. Are you all aware of any good resources for pricing these things?

Did you email Bob? He might have some material he didn't yet cut. I think a fair price on an untreated stone of 2 carats is $100 to $200 a carat depending on the quality (color purity, clarity). Larger cleaner stones of high color quality go for more per carat. Based on those photos of that one online retailer you first considered, I would probably skip those gems. Did you also check out AJSgems.com? They are a very honest reliable seller, and I saw some pretty stones on their site last night.

ETA: It's always good to email a vendor with a stone you're looking for because they may not have everything available on their website.

 

[T L]

If you don't mind a little orange in your pink tourmaline, you would have more options from lapadaries at the sites below. They are highly recommended. It's really difficult for lapadaries to get their hands on fine rubellite from what I've seen. Bob Kast can get it from time to time, but it's difficult. These two men are reasonably priced too. If you don't see anything on their site, you can email them. There are other lapadaries, but I find for the quality/price ratio, these two gentlemen seem to be the best. Others may disagree.

precisiongem.com
acstones.com