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Help Finding a Diamond from James Allen

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
Hello all,

I need help finding a diamond from James Allen because my gf has chosen her setting from there (see link below). Please see my desired diamond specifications at the end. I have read all the education articles on PS and just started the search. My initial reaction is that searching on JA is frustrating. I have a few questions:

1. After applying the specifications filter to my search, I'd have to inquire about each diamond for a GIA report in order to run the HCA tool. Is there any way around this time intensive process?

2. I tried asking for IS images, but many diamonds don't have one. I asked if they could take an image for me, but currently their department is closed due to COVID. Should I even bother considering a diamond without an IS image? My gut says no if I want to confirm ideal performance.

3. Sometimes they showed me arrows images, which I read are not the same as IS images. Is there any way to tell them apart?

4. If I go for SI1 or even VS2, it seems the customer service can't actually confirm if it's eye clean. How do I deal with that situation? It seems the only way to ensure eye clean is get VS1.

5. Do you have any suggestions for specific stones from JA within my specifications? Are there any other strategies for searching on JA?

Setting: https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...pave-adorned-crown-engagement-ring-item-63605
Diamond specs: G-H, ideal cut and above, SI1-VS1, .66-.7 carat (to be exact, I was thinking .67-.69 because gf thought .75 is too big)

Thanks a bunch!
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
I like this stone based on the video,
Looks crisp and the arrows are defined and no haziness or milkiness so eye clean in my opinion. No obvious inclusions on the table.

 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
Welcome to Pricescope,

What is your budget you are working with?
For the stone, not including tax, ideally around $2,600, but I can go up to $3,200 if necessary for ideal performance. It seems like there are quite a few options, so I think I can meet my ideal price.
 

Lovecarats

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2021
Messages
78
To answer your first question, I recently inquired about the GIA certificates of 3 different diamonds that I was interested in on JamesAllen.com using the chat feature and they sent them to me via email while we were still on the chat. There wasn’t anything time intensive about that process. I’d just start a chat and ask for the certificates.

I’ll let the other folks tap in for the other questions.

Good luck.
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
To answer your first question, I recently inquired about the GIA certificates of 3 different diamonds that I was interested in on JamesAllen.com using the chat feature and they sent them to me via email while we were still on the chat. There wasn’t anything time intensive about that process. I’d just start a chat and ask for the certificates.

I’ll let the other folks tap in for the other questions.

Good luck.

I think I just found a solution for question 1. Maybe everyone already knows, but I realized the HCA report was already computed for diamonds listed from PS's diamond search tool. I checked every HCA report. If it was between 1-2, I'd add it to my comparison list on the JA website. Now I can ignore the rest of the JA stones within my specification.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,054
4. If I go for SI1 or even VS2, it seems the customer service can't actually confirm if it's eye clean. How do I deal with that situation? It seems the only way to ensure eye clean is get VS1.

Easy, Buy from an "inhouse vendor".
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
I like this stone based on the video,
Looks crisp and the arrows are defined and no haziness or milkiness so eye clean in my opinion. No obvious inclusions on the table.


It looks nice to me too. Seems like it's already unavailable since there is no price. Are you able to determine the light leakage just by looking at the video?
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
There are some good options.
This is my favourite.

High clarity and color and carat. Within your budget.
For the cut... I say 95/100.

I think this one is very nice. I didn't realize F would still be in my budget. I'm guessing it's lower price due to faint fluorescence? I don't think that would bother me. How do you determine the quality of cut? I see the proportions are all pretty much within ideal range. What parameter needs to change to make it 100/100? Also, JA doesn't have an IS image. How would you confirm light leakage in this case?
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
It looks nice to me too. Seems like it's already unavailable since there is no price. Are you able to determine the light leakage just by looking at the video?

Some lurker snatched this one up, unfortunately when we recommend stones you have to act quickly otherwise people come on this site and look for recommendations and buy the stones we post.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
23,630
I think this one is very nice. I didn't realize F would still be in my budget. I'm guessing it's lower price due to faint fluorescence? I don't think that would bother me. How do you determine the quality of cut? I see the proportions are all pretty much within ideal range. What parameter needs to change to make it 100/100? Also, JA doesn't have an IS image. How would you confirm light leakage in this case?

95/100 rating is pretty darn good! You'll have to look at Super Ideals to get the 100/100.
H&A images and idealscope would tell us how far its off but those arent provided by JA
unless you buy an H&A . (Or, go with a vendor that has Super Ideal stones with all the images.)

Flyingpig has looked at/analyzed a ton of stones and can tell by sight which stones have decent light return and minimal leakage.

Not sure what your budget is but $2500 will get you a Super IDeal .7 I/SI1.
A .7 G/SI1 will run about $3k. These stones have all the images needed to prove that they
are "Ideal" performers.
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
Some lurker snatched this one up, unfortunately when we recommend stones you have to act quickly otherwise people come on this site and look for recommendations and buy the stones we post.

I see. Thanks for the heads up. I'm waiting for JA's next 25% off setting sale to buy. If I find the right one, do you suggest I buy the diamond first to avoid losing it to someone else, then buy the setting during the sale to complete the ring? I feel like this method is awkward and isn't ideal, as I'd have to send the diamond back to be set, and the return policy for the diamond wouldn't be the same timeframe as the setting.
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
I see. Thanks for the heads up. I'm waiting for JA's next 25% off setting sale to buy. If I find the right one, do you suggest I buy the diamond first to avoid losing it to someone else, then buy the setting during the sale to complete the ring? I feel like this method is awkward and isn't ideal, as I'd have to send the diamond back to be set, and the return policy for the diamond wouldn't be the same timeframe as the setting.

If you are buying the diamond and setting from the same vendor you definitely want to do it at the same time to avoid shipping back your stone for the setting. But when you see a diamond you like and are ready you can reserve it and put it on hold for a short time before you buy it.
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
@jp201845 , @flyingpig , @tyty333 Assuming the stone has ideal measurements, do you have any good references or techniques based on experience for learning how to inspect a diamond's cut visually without the IS and ASET images? I haven't found any educational material on this anywhere. So far I've found the following technique to be useful. Choose two diamonds to compare and open them up in different browser windows. Then put them side by side and rotate them at the same direction and speed, making sure they are viewed at approximately the same angle. I can then determine the better stone by seeing which one shines or sparkles brighter as they rotate together. This assumes the illumination setup is the same, which I think is valid for comparing stones from the same vendor. Do you see any flaws with this technique or think I should be looking at any other characteristics?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,825
First, under the table between the arrows, marked in red.
You see solid triangular light reflections (blue, brown, white). If there is significant leakage, it is not going to be as solid. Now there is minor leakage (you some are not solid triangle). But these are non issue in my book

Second, around the edges marked with blue. Check for painting/digging. No issue here.

Third, check for wonky pavilion, marked with green. Minor angle variation, nothing detrimental.

Ask for the the report. The crown angle can be slightly high, but still in the acceptable ideal range.

Because of these flaws, I rate it 95/100 (in the world of non super ideal brand stones)z still and definitely above "Tiffany Quality". But considering it is a F and the price, I say 100/100.
20210330_134011.jpg
 

AnastasiaBeaverhausen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
1,473
First, under the table between the arrows, marked in red.
You see solid triangular light reflections (blue, brown, white). If there is significant leakage, it is not going to be as solid. Now there is minor leakage (you some are not solid triangle). But these are non issue in my book

Second, around the edges marked with blue. Check for painting/digging. No issue here.

Third, check for wonky pavilion, marked with green. Minor angle variation, nothing detrimental.

Ask for the the report. The crown angle can be slightly high, but still in the acceptable ideal range.

Because of these flaws, I rate it 95/100 (in the world of non super ideal brand stones)z still and definitely above "Tiffany Quality". But considering it is a F and the price, I say 100/100.
20210330_134011.jpg

Thank you so much for this visual btw
Soooo helpful for understanding static images of diamonds. Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
I was also wondering, if one of the arrows doesn't appear fully black in the picture or video, does that mean it's not a well cut diamond? For example the following true hearts cut diamond has this issue at 12 o'clock. However, the IS image looks fine in terms of all dark arrows.

 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,965
I was also wondering, if one of the arrows doesn't appear fully black in the picture or video, does that mean it's not a well cut diamond? For example the following true hearts cut diamond has this issue at 12 o'clock. However, the IS image looks fine in terms of all dark arrows.


This stone looks "off" to me in terms of proportions. Do you have the AGS report?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,825
This stone looks "off" to me in terms of proportions. Do you have the AGS report?

One arrow not appearing should not be an issue by itself. Often, it is due to just the lighting setup or due to non complentary PA/ and CA. In this case, the IS looks good, meaning PA and CA should
be complimentary.

Having that said, as @lovedogs indicated, the table % and/or PA could be a tad large and steep.
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
Is it a bad idea to automatically rule out diamonds that do not have all arrows simultaneously black?

As you guys pointed out, it could be due to lighting or wrong proportions. I don't want to accidentally rule out a good diamond due to this issue.

AGS report is the first one shown below. Indeed, some of the specs are either on the border or just slightly outside ideal.

Here's another example of this issue: https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...ferral&utm_campaign=earthdiamonds-ps&a_aid=ps

Arrow between 6 and 9 o'clock is not simultaneously black. AGS report is the second one shown below.


cert.jpeg cert (1).jpeg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,825
You should not rule out a stone based on the light return characteristics of arrows alone. As I wrote, you need to look at different areas (arrows, between arrows, table reflection, edges, side view, girdle, etc....)
While you can predict proportions and leakage based on JA videos, this takes alot of practice and comparing thousands of stones and images over years. Even then, it is not accurate.
It is recommended that you get the ASET or IS image especially for round brilliants and step cuts.
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
I literally asked JA to check ~75 stones with good HCA score for IS images. Only 6 of them had one. Out of those options here are two of the better ones. What do you guys think of these options?

1. Some arrows look fatter but still ok? HCA 0.8, so slightly below 1. However, IS image looks decent to me.

1617784597819.png
1617786395106.png
1617786422466.png

2. Two arrows nonblack; symmetry issue? HCA 1.4. IS image seems to demonstrate symmetry issue as well, but with minimal light leakage.

1617786857304.png
1617786918431.png
1617786942046.png

@flyingpig What do you think about the above stones in comparison to the one you mentioned in your first post? I think the one you recommended is my favorite in terms of its clean arrows pattern, but there is no IS image to confirm light leakage. The video also shows it is just as or more sparkly than the other stones here. Would you still go with your first pick even without IS image?
 

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
Anyone (@jp201845 ,@lovedogs , @tyty333 ) have any thoughts about my previous message? I'm thinking of pulling the trigger tonight or tomorrow! I just want to make sure I'm doing this right. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
I would also go with option #2 which is AGS graded the first option is GIA graded. To me the image for # 2 looks to be slightly tilted and shows minimal leakage.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,825
I really like stone #2, but wonder what experts think about the arrow not being clear. @flyingpig ?

#2 is good. Do not worry about not all arrows turning black under the IS. In real life, this 34.5/40.9 may look more fiery than say 35/40.6 which is more contrasty with all black arrows. Some (and many trade members) actually prefer this.

#1 is also good. It has no leakage with black arrows. This is expected from a shallower stone. It may look 'better' than #2 in term of light return and leakage, but IS images do not reveal anything about fire and 3D effect, in which #2 (with bigger crown) excels.
 
Last edited:

tulnev

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
21
Thank you so much for all your feedback. I also cannot stop thinking about the diamond in @flyingpig 's first post. Picture and report of that one are below. Would you all pick #2 that everyone is mentioning above or the one here below (not knowing the IS image)?
1617859534374.png
1617859534139.png
 

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