Help evaluating (significant) e-ring center sapphire

[AGZKY]

Hi all--new to the forums, gemstones in general, and sapphires in particular. I'm in need of some guidance.

Short story: my girlfriend, and hopefully soon-to-be-fiancee, went ring shopping with me on 5th avenue in NYC recently. She fell in love with a Cartier high jewelry piece: a 7.75 carat Ceylon emerald-cut sapphire flanked by two baguette diamonds. Needless to say, it's very expensive.

I'm working with a jeweler who I know and trust to help replicate this for a fraction of the price. Setting and baguette side stones aren't an issue, but finding the center stone is. These emerald-cut unheated sapphires are indeed quite rare. However, I managed to find one: I recently purchased this 6.22 carat stone from Natural Sapphire Company in New York for an out-the-door price of around $53,000.

I know there have been mixed reviews of NSC previously on these forums. In this case, the story's maybe a bit different: I've seen the stone in person and think it's wonderful (she will love the deep, deep blue, and I louped the stone and it's extremely clean). I had them run another GIA report on the stone to verify it's unheated, and it is (as the original AGL report suggested). The size and shape are exactly what I want, and the price, while significant, is what I'd like to spend.

The question for you all: is this a decent purchase from a pure value standpoint? I don't mind having overpaid by 10-20%, but if you all think I could have something of similar quality for half the price, then I'll reconsider my decision. It's just too much money to have spent stupidly, and I can avail myself of the NSC's 14-day review/return policy if need be. Really appreciate your help!

Side note: if any of you are aware of a jeweler/wholesaler in NYC who might have something comparable for me to evaluate, that's helpful too!

 

[lovedogs]

IMHO this stone is going to look almost black IRL, especially once set. I would definitely keep looking, since I do not think it's worth the price at all.

 

[lovedogs]

Here are some significantly better options (again, IMHO), that won't look so dark when set. I think it's important to think carefully about how critical it is for the stone to be unheated, since heat treatment is so common and generally accepted as not problematic. But 1 of these 3 are unheated.

https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p332/5.30_ct_Unheated_Blue_Sapphire.html
https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p474/5.13_ct_Blue_Sapphire.html
https://www.mastercutgems.com/Produ...-GemMedia.php?FromPage=1&ProductMediaID=38799

 

[lovedogs]

PS. I know you said the side stones and setting isn't an issue, but OMG this ring is to die for, in your budget, and already made.

https://www.escobardiamonds.com/eng...cut-sapphire-three-stone-engagement-ring.html

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

Oh, wow! Well, I'd ditch the NSC one. So dark, and I don't think it's a good value for your money. She might like dark, and it might've been nice in the store, with bright lights all over it, but as @lovedogs said, it will be darker once set. It's so dark, the facets aren't visible. Can you see them and some sparkles/bling?

Gary at Finewater has incredible stones! I've met with him a few times and seen quite a few of them. What are your parameters? It has to be emerald cut, or just a rectangular shape? Size? You have $50k to spend, but is that what you want to spend? It has to be a sapphire, or a blue stone?

I do know a NYC jeweler - it can't hurt to contact her. Her name is Susan Kottemann, and she's on 48th. She made a ring for me. (She was my daughter's neighbor, and my daughter was her dog sitter.) I used to drool over her stones. That's where I fell in love with spinel. Anyhow, her work number is (212) 486-6576, email [email protected]. She is a perfectionist!

 

[qubitasaurus]

No. It is over priced given how dark it is. Sorry for not being more helpful by providing examples for price comparisons. I am procasternating in bite size chuncks due to end of year rush -- lol.

Go look at langs antiques. Go look at joe escobar. Please don't buy that stone without looking thuroughly through comparable options.

 

[peacechick]

The stone looks extremely dark to me. It is not trade ideal royal blue. I think you can do much better with 50k. Since an emerald cut in a large size is hard to come by, I would also search for preowned estate or antique rings that fit the parameters. You can remove the stone, recut or repolish it, then set it how you like.

 

[Sirenagirl]

I also noticed you can't see the facets in your stone. This one is much smaller than you are looking for but the cut is beautiful. You can see the steps which is what makes an emerald cut so beautiful (in my opinion.) Jeff White does custom cutting it may be worth inquiring.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Actually I would ask for the price of this one

https://rogerdery.com/gems/?page=/product/1807001

Then aak for shots on the back of someone's hand (you would need to evaluate whether it has a window. If this term is new, then read 'new to coloured gemstones' linked at the top of the forum.).

He also has darker stones, but you have to remember that everything darkens once set. So aim 1-2 shades lighter than your desired final colour.

 

[peacechick]

Not an emerald cut but it is the kind of color you should aim for if you want a deep dark blue:
https://www.langantiques.com/7-18-carat-no-heat-cushion-cut-sapphire-platinum-and-diamond-ring.html

Another option:
https://www.langantiques.com/no-heat-ceylon-6-30-carat-sapphire-and-diamond-victorian-necklace.html

This is probably lighter than you want, and is a color-change sapphire.
https://www.langantiques.com/10-29-carat-color-change-sapphire-ring.html

 

[AV_]

One of these might work - WWW

Let me say this much: I do not understand sapphire prices.

I would also try Pala International & this WWW

2p

 

[lmyracle]

Agree that the stone will likely look almost black when set and on a finger. The one from Escobar diamonds, that lovedogs posted above is gorgeous, as well as some of the others shared here. You can definitely do better for the $ you're willing to pay.

 

[AGZKY]

Hi everyone--thanks for the helpful feedback. The NSC stone is certainly far more lively in person (and in the rotating view on their website). With that said, i entirely appreciate that it will only get darker when set in a ring.

Regarding 'what I'm looking for': it has to be emerald cut or I switch to another stone type entirely. An emerald cut stone is actually my girlfriend's first priority; if I can't find something wonderful in sapphire, then a diamond will do nicely.

I'll have my jeweler take a look when she receives the stone from NSC and solicit some additional feedback. And I'll also give a few of the recommendations here a call. Thanks!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

PS. I know you said the side stones and setting isn't an issue, but OMG this ring is to die for, in your budget, and already made.

https://www.escobardiamonds.com/eng...cut-sapphire-three-stone-engagement-ring.html

I like this suggestion!

 

[chrono]

Too expensive for the quality. If you want deep blue, it is definitely a dark blue but this colour should never be this expensive.

 

[MissyBeaucoup]

Keep in mind that the lights at the jewelers are extra bright and sparky. You want a stone that will look pretty in all lights, such as office fluorescents or indoors relaxing in the evening. I have had sad second thoughts about a stone that was (in winter light) too dark for me, and it was two decimal places away from your budget.

 

[Arcadian]

I'm going to agree with @chrono Yes its unheated and unheated sapphires do come with a premium attached, but it will be a super dark stone once set. Unless you live in an area that has LOTS of sunlight, its likely going to be a dark stone most of the time. Please discount any sparkly showroom lights for a second, and think about what it will look like in your(and her) particular environment (i.e., your home lights, office lights, etc).

If you like the color unset, then look for a stone thats at least 2 shades lighter thats unset to be closer this color once set, dependent upon the type of setting you plan to get. (a closed setting can make the stone darker, so fyi on bezel set this)

Also for the price you're willing to pay, you have a lot of options open to you. IMO, this stone is not the best in terms of value or price.

 

[ringo865]

Try jogani who specializes in large unheated stones. https://www.instagram.com/joganibh/?hl=en

 

[GliderPoss]

Yeah I think you can do waaaaay better than NSC for your budget. Walk away from that dark stone & look at some other options available. The Escobar Diamonds one posted is absolutely lovely!

 

[SouthernGent]

Keep in mind that the lights at the jewelers are extra bright and sparky. You want a stone that will look pretty in all lights, such as office fluorescents or indoors relaxing in the evening. I have had sad second thoughts about a stone that was (in winter light) too dark for me, and it was two decimal places away from your budget.

As an inexperienced newbie who is just following this thread for educational purposes, it sounds to me like one should look for a loose stone at least one shade lighter than you'd want when set.
Ahah! I see Arcadian recommends two shades, so it looks like I'm on the right track.
I was in a jewelry store just recently and saw a perfect shade of blue topaz already in an inexpensive silver setting and almost purchased the entire piece just so I could tear a $25 stone out of it to use in a ring for myself. Please tell me I'm not the only one who has considered doing that.

 

[chroman]

I know you said it has to be an EC, but I’ll throw this out for comps (and throw out another vote for throwing out the NSC stone..)
https://jefferydavies.com/gemstones/sapphire/mj10795-sapphire-7-32ct-lotus/

 

[chroman]

How much room is in your budget?

I saw this EC, 13.25ct that looks like its reasonably cut and colored:
https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G810381

 

[MollyMalone]

How much room is in your budget?
I saw this EC, 13.25ct that looks like its reasonably cut and colored:
https://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=G810381

A general FYI: the source for the colored gems in Pearlman's database seems to almost always be a wholesaler here in the States, Gem2000:
https://www.gem2000.com/index.php

Meaning, @AGZKY , that anyone in the trade -- with the credentials to set up an account with this wholesaler, if they don't have an acc't with Gem2000 already -- has access to Gem2000's gem stones. As consumers, we can do searches of Gem2000's inventory, but we cannot see the wholesale prices. What the consumer ultimately pays is the wholesale price plus whatever mark-up the retailer decides is appropriate. So if you're already working with a local jeweler & if there's anything of interest you see on Gem2000's website, see if your jeweler of choice can bring the stone(s) in for your viewing. A jeweler who is fabricating a ring with a stone you purchase from them may be willing to give you a better price on the stone itself.

Please know that a lot of Gem2000's stones do not have independent lab reports, but "has certification" is a Search filter. In the alternative, especially since your chosen jeweler is in NYC, they should be able to easily obtain an AGL (my first preference for colored gems) or GIA lab report, and negotiate with Gem2000 if the stone does not come back from AGL or GIA with a report describing, e.g., the same treatment (or lack thereof) as in Gem2000's listing

 

[chroman]

Yeah, you can often find the same stones on africagems at different markups. I checked (since they’re having a 20% sale atm) but didn’t see this one

FWIW that stone is listed with a GIA origin report.

 

[Bron357]

The sapphire is lovely but it’s too dark and too deep to warrant its $53,000 US price in my opinion.
You need to check a gems measurements as well as it’s carat weight. So with its cutting style you have a fair amount of carat weight under the table so that carat weight you’ve paid for but can’t see.
That sapphire once set with baguettes either side will look almost black in low light / indoors at night. You’ll need a strong light source to be able to “catch” the magnificent blue. Now, that’s fine if you love ink blue almost black sapphire (and you can buy Aussie ink blue sapphires for a mere fraction of that price) but for $53,000 US you should be wanting one that stands out from the other side of the room in my opinion.
Large size sapphires in an emerald cut in a vivid royal blue are not common so unless you want to wait, search, and search some more you aren’t going to have half a dozen right now to choose from even at $50,000 US.
The other venue to search is antique / vintage high end rings. They often have superb quality coloured gems and even if you don’t love the setting you can snare the right gem and on sell the setting.
And a final word of advice, as stunning as that Tiffany ring was inside their showroom, it won’t have looked like that outside in normal light, indoors at home day or night or inside an office. Tiffany like all high end jewellers have spent many many thousands of dollars on specialised lighting so their goods look “ to die for” while inside their showroom.

 

[Anne111]

Isn't this called 'Midnight blue' or worse 'inky Blue'? Why 10.000/ct?

For 50.000 you should find something really outstanding. ​

Anyways, an emerald cut will always be less sparkly than any other cut, so you want a color that is extra perfect because that's what you mainly pay for (as opposed to lustre and color). I find emerald cuts not ideal for sapphires, to say it politely. They should be considered only for gems that have not much luster to start with.

 

[MissyBeaucoup]

For you to drool over... is the absolutely breathtaking 7.32 carat Lotus certified Jeffrey Davies stone linked to above by @chroman

 

[MissyBeaucoup]

Here’s a link to a chart with various colors of sapphires for reference: https://www.lotusgemology.com/index.php/lab/color-types

 

[SouthernGent]

For you to drool over... is the absolutely breathtaking 7.32 carat Lotus certified Jeffrey Davies stone linked to above by @chroman

Wow! I'll have to say that's the prettiest sapphire I've ever seen .

 

[Sirenagirl]

Drop dead gorgeous!!!