==HELP==Diamond for engagement=Advice welcomed==

[Lotus888]

Hi guys

Im new here and really want to seek help from you as I searched online many ppl recommended this website.

I am insterested in one 2.43ct diamond- Round Brilliant. GIA 3 x Excellent E, VVS2 None-fluorescence

Dimension is 8.78-8.80x5.21mm
Depth 59.3%
Table 59%
Crown angle 31.5 degree
Pavilion angle 41 degree
Medium- slightly thick girdle

However, after read about ASET+idealscope and watched a lot of youtube movie which shows two GIA 3x excellent diamonds can actually looks very different~~
I have no idea what to do...i thought it is good but maybe is too shalow and not enough fire???? really not sure...
So please do share some opinion on whether this stone is good or not~~

Thank you for your time and any thought is highly appreciated

 

[Stive85]

Hi guys

Im new here and really want to seek help from you as I searched online many ppl recommended this website.

I am insterested in one 2.43ct diamond- Round Brilliant. GIA 3 x Excellent E, VVS2 None-fluorescence

Dimension is 8.78-8.80x5.21mm
Depth 59.3%
Table 59%
Crown angle 31.5 degree
Pavilion angle 41 degree
Medium- slightly thick girdle

However, after read about ASET+idealscope and watched a lot of youtube movie which shows two GIA 3x excellent diamonds can actually looks very different~~
I have no idea what to do...i thought it is good but maybe is too shalow and not enough fire???? really not sure...
So please do share some opinion on whether this stone is good or not~~

Thank you for your time and any thought is highly appreciated

Well it's a 60/60 diamond, so you should automatically expect more white light return as opposed to fire. This is not a bad thing, as 60/60's in my opinion are equally as gorgeous. But it is all a matter of opinion for sure.

You seem to be on the right path as this diamond looks promising.. However, may I ask your budget? Reason being is that you are shopping in the higher clarity and colour scale. Are you doing this simply because you want "the best"? Or is the person wearing this ring uber sensitive to colour/clarity?

If you are simply looking at this range because it's near the top end I would definitely suggest going down in both colour and clarity. Personally I would look for a G-H in colour and a VS1-2 in clarity. These two downgrades alone will save you a ton of cash and you wont be able to even tell the different between the two! Maybe even go up in size a bit with the money you saved.

Just my opinion though. Budget?

 

[Gypsy]

Crown angle is really shallow.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. Over 2.5 is a no. No score under 2 is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen, GOG, HPD, BGD, WF and the regularly recommended vendors on here do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium

 

[Lotus888]

Hi thanks for your reply.

On internet, this stone alone is 70000 Australian dollars ($78k AUD in smaller retailer shop because we need to pay 10% tax/GST in Australia)
My gf prefer to buy in a larger/more reputable shop, so we agreed a price at AUD 82000 (including platinum classic 6 claw simplist setting/solitaire).
I will go overseas so I can claim my GST back, so actually I will pay 74545 AUD for that...

Am I paying too much??? last night I couldnot sleep at all by studying the 60/60 things...

And I have already put down 1000 dollars as deposit...

My gf actually said she would prefer to buy an apartment instead of a diamond!!no idea what to do...

 

[Lotus888]

Crown angle is really shallow.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. Over 2.5 is a no. No score under 2 is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen, GOG, HPD, BGD, WF and the regularly recommended vendors on here do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium

Crown angle is really shallow.

S

I used the HCA, it is 1.1 overall performance, but it is in the BIC range not the TIC or FIC range.
Can I trust the HCA score??

 

[Lotus888]

..

 

[Gypsy]

My gf actually asked me to request idealscope and ASET photos of the diamond before negotiate the price with the seller.
Its my damn stupid fault to ignore that by knowing nothing about how important that is!! when I made the stupid deposit!!!

Now I asked the seller to provide that, they said they dont have one....


Shall I buy the ASET software online and a ideascope myself??

ASET is not software. It's a scope.

If it's a round, then all you really need is an idealscope. It's 25 dollars for one I think. If the stone vendor has a great return policy then sure why not buy one (make sure you'll have the idealscope arrive during the return period). http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp


Frankly though. It's a round. There are thousands of them. I'd just start over at a different vendor.

Incidentally you don't need E VVS2, unless your lady is set on super high color and clarity for some reason. You are wasting money on both color and clarity you don't need.

You should drop to F/G VS1-VS2. And that will let you get a better cut stone without a shallow crown.

 

[Gypsy]

Stones to consider:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.690-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104065097025 GORGEOUS
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11253/ (add to cart to get price) STUNNING
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3009058.htm LOVELY
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.50-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-311221 Good price, borderline numbers, the idealscope would have to determine if it's worth buying. But the price is great so it's worth pursing.


Tell the vendor the idealscope is non-negotiable and get your deposit, less any shipping fees, back.

 

[Lotus888]

Hi

I have a question, The HCA score is 1.1 (use angle), and 1.2 (use %),, but it is in BIC range.
Can I rely on this result?

Because you mentioned the crown is too shallow, and is it possible to have a 'fish-eye' looking? coz the HCA is 1.1 excellent...the 2 things seems conflict??????????

Thoughts???

 

[Gypsy]

Hi

I have a question, The HCA score is 1.1 (use angle), and 1.2 (use %),, but it is in BIC range.
Can I rely on this result?

Because you mentioned the crown is too shallow, and is it possible to have a 'fish-eye' looking? coz the HCA is 1.1 excellent...the 2 things seems conflict??????????

Thoughts???

Fish eye is not the concern.

Why the HCA is not enough. From one of our trade member experts, John Pollard:

HCA usage warnings here: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor

In Context

Just imagine that you're trying to get to know someone's looks and personality...

An HCA score is merely like having a chalk outline of the person.
Grading report numbers are like having the person's height, weight and clothing measurements.
An ASET or Ideal-Scope (for RB) image is like having a still photo of the person.
An AGS Platinum "0" in performance is like a panel of judges confirming that the person's personality and looks are solid.
A 3D scan in sophisticated cut-calculation software is like having a video interview with the person.

Eventually, it's a lot of great information. All told it's enough for an experienced cut-specialist to make very detailed performance predictions. But in the end, a live date (dinner & a movie?) will be how you finally judge total personality and looks as you, individually, perceive them.

 

[Gypsy]

Again. Get your deposit back, less shipping.


And buy one of the stones I found for you above. Frankly all of them (except perhaps the JA borderline stone) is a more responsible purchase.

You are spending around 50k.

And what you are relying on? A tool that is a rough estimate.

We don't recommend people spend 5K without an idealscope. Let alone 50k.


You came here for advice. I gave it to you.

Now take it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Stones to consider:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.690-g-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104065097025 GORGEOUS
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11253/ (add to cart to get price) STUNNING
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3009058.htm LOVELY
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.50-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-311221 Good price, borderline numbers, the idealscope would have to determine if it's worth buying. But the price is great so it's worth pursing.


Tell the vendor the idealscope is non-negotiable and get your deposit, less any shipping fees, back.

I like #2 ...

 

[Lotus888]

Thank you Gypsy.

I am discuss with my gf about your advice very seriously.

We went out to a store, they represent 2 diamonds with AGS overall 0.
I recorded the GIA no and come home using HCA, the AGS0 diamond only scored 3.1 and 3.7

Is it normal? I should trust the AGS parameters more, right??

 

[Lotus888]

Hi is there anyone have a DiamCalc or other tools can use the data to get a computedrised image (for light return or anything valuable) for this stone please??

2.43ct diamond- Round Brilliant. GIA 3 x Excellent E, VVS2 None-fluorescence

Dimension is 8.78-8.80x5.21mm
Depth 59.3%
Table 59%
Crown angle 31.5 degree
Pavilion angle 41 degree
Medium- slightly thick girdle 3.5% faceted
star is 50%
lower half(forgot the term) 75%

 

[yasssss]

don't have any info (or programs) that could help you but I just wanted to say that the PS members on this thread who have already suggested that you get your deposit back and go for a stone that is a little lower in color/clarity are extraordinarily knowledgeable and experienced and you should heed their advice. I only wish I had solicited their advice before my fiance purchased my ring. and even if you don't get your deposit back, the more responsible options that gypsy gave you will save you A LOT of money. so, ditch this stone

 

[Lotus888]

Stones to consider:



Tell the vendor the idealscope is non-negotiable and get your deposit, less any shipping fees, back.

Advice taken, Diamond ditched
T-T intense discussion with my gf~~
Thank you for your advice Gypsy!