Help deciding between two Cushion cuts!

[lookingforcushions]

Hi everyone,
I'm having a very hard time making a decision. I'm new to the forum, but am having such a hard time, I thought I'd put my questions out there. Please any help would be greatly appreciated!

I'm considering two Cushion Brilliants- both of which I have seen under an Ideal Scope and look like bright stones - evenly distributed reds and pinks.

In terms of size on my hand - this is where I'm very confused about what to do (I can only see these diamonds loose and it's hard for me to imagine how they might look once set). In terms of spread, I love the size of a .90 round brilliant on my hand and tried a square 1 carat cushion (the Tiffany Novo) on that was just PERFECT (6.0 x 5.95 mm). The Novo gave me a frame of reference since it was already in a setting. Also I have small hands - 4.25 ring size. But I probably wouldn't want it to be any bigger.

I have a couple questions, but first here are the stats on each:

1. .90 carat Cushion Brilliant - bright stone, 5.80 x 5.80 mm, excellent symmetry and polish - I worry that this stone will face up smaller than I want since it's .2 mm smaller than the Tiffany ring I tried on.

2. 1 carat Cushion Brilliant - even brighter stone, 6.1 x 6.05 mm, excellent symmetry and polish - I worry that this stone will be too big for me once it's set - they say that once it's in a setting stones look 10% bigger? The difference is about .1 mm

Here's what I'm wondering about:
- considering the Tiffany Novo sized diamond that I loved, which stone would be more what I'm looking for?

- Also In terms of setting I want a very low setting in a basket head - I love the brightness of the second stone, but because I worry that it might be too large, would the lower setting help to make it appear smaller than if it were in a higher setting. I work in at a private school and something too conspicuous would make me uncomfortable, but everyone says you get used to wearing a diamond.

Thanks so much for anyone's help. I know I'm splitting hairs here, but this is such a big decision and I want to make the right one.

 

[slg47]

hi lookingforcushions

welcome! to anyone looking for a cushion I recommend CCL's great guide to cushions (I will try to find and post). There are many types of cushions and not even all cushion brilliants look the same!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UfJDCtyCgw&feature=related

this video may be helpful to you also.

Also, if you are looking to replicate the Novo, I think the square cushion H&A comes closest to the cut.

As far as size, I think either size would be fine (what finger size do you have?) I think 0.1 mm is not that big and you would get used to it. For reference, I am posting a picture of my ring-I am size 5 and my ring measures 5.81 mm



ETA did you look with an ASET? ASET is preferred to IS for fancy shapes (there is an article on this somewhere...)

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Hi everyone,
I'm having a very hard time making a decision. I'm new to the forum, but am having such a hard time, I thought I'd put my questions out there. Please any help would be greatly appreciated!

I'm considering two Cushion Brilliants- both of which I have seen under an Ideal Scope and look like bright stones - evenly distributed reds and pinks.

I prefer ASET for cushions, Idealscope doesn't give enough information.

In terms of size on my hand - this is where I'm very confused about what to do (I can only see these diamonds loose and it's hard for me to imagine how they might look once set). In terms of spread, I love the size of a .90 round brilliant on my hand and tried a square 1 carat cushion (the Tiffany Novo) on that was just PERFECT (6.0 x 5.95 mm). The Novo gave me a frame of reference since it was already in a setting. Also I have small hands - 4.25 ring size. But I probably wouldn't want it to be any bigger.

I have a couple questions, but first here are the stats on each:

1. .90 carat Cushion Brilliant - bright stone, 5.80 x 5.80 mm, excellent symmetry and polish - I worry that this stone will face up smaller than I want since it's .2 mm smaller than the Tiffany ring I tried on.

2. 1 carat Cushion Brilliant - even brighter stone, 6.1 x 6.05 mm, excellent symmetry and polish - I worry that this stone will be too big for me once it's set - they say that once it's in a setting stones look 10% bigger? The difference is about .1 mm

Here's what I'm wondering about:
- considering the Tiffany Novo sized diamond that I loved, which stone would be more what I'm looking for?

We need photographs and ASET images to tell you anything, we don't even know what type of facet structure each of them is.

- Also In terms of setting I want a very low setting in a basket head - I love the brightness of the second stone, but because I worry that it might be too large, would the lower setting help to make it appear smaller than if it were in a higher setting. I work in at a private school and something too conspicuous would make me uncomfortable, but everyone says you get used to wearing a diamond.

0.1 mm is the thickness of 10 sheets of paper, you won't notice the difference.

Thanks so much for anyone's help. I know I'm splitting hairs here, but this is such a big decision and I want to make the right one.

The link to the thread containing my guide is shown in my signature it should help educate on the different types of cushion cuts.

 

[antelope1]

I think you should get the one that you think is cut better, not because it is bigger face up. The face up difference will be very small -- it's hard for the human eye to detect differences smaller than 0.5mm, IMO.

I don't think the height of the setting affects the face up proportions of the diamond.

If you look at the hands of the moms with kids at the school at which you work...I dunno, around here (there are lots of kids who go to private school in NW DC and Bethesda), 1 ct would be considered a small diamond. So, I wouldn't be worried about seeming flashy.
Our hands are similarly sized -- and 1 ct will definitely not look too large. It will look classy, understated, and elegant!

Btw, if you are really unsure -- ask if you can view the diamonds on your hand using temp settings (like claw prongs for picking up the diamond).

 

[lookingforcushions]

Thanks everyone! The store doesn't have an aset scope available. I could order one. But I'm not sure if I could put the stone on hold for that long.

@CCL they're both Cushion Brillians, 8 main. In terms of looks, they both have the same facet look.

@antelope1, the brighter stone is definitely the second stone. What sized hands do you have?

Sig41, your ring looks beautiful and perfect on your hand. .Im considering a 2 mm band with five small diamonds on each side, and I'm thinking that with your side stones, visually, the larger stone that im considering might work out to the same amount of "diamond" on my hand even though my hand is a bit smaller.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Thanks everyone! The store doesn't have an aset scope available. I could order one. But I'm not sure if I could put the stone on hold for that long.

@CCL they're both Cushion Brillians, 8 main. In terms of looks, they both have the same facet look.

These are all 8 main cushion brilliants and only the really square ones(rectangular will look different). Which one do they look like the bottom right?

SLG's ring has the bottom left type.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh0ad6dsDRk&fmt=22

@antelope1, the brighter stone is definitely the second stone. What sized hands do you have?

Sig41, your ring looks beautiful and perfect on your hand. .Im considering a 2 mm band with five small diamonds on each side, and I'm thinking that with your side stones, visually, the larger stone that im considering might work out to the same amount of "diamond" on my hand even though my hand is a bit smaller.

 

[antelope1]

I am wearing a 4.75, but my hands are short. My left hand is exactly 6" from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger. There are 5th graders with longer hands.

I tried on my friend's 1.01 ct AGS0 RB the other day (she wears a 7, and has long fingers) and the diamond (slightly over 6mm in diameter, I forget exactly) was a nice size on me, but looks a smaller on her. I find that the length of your fingers matters a lot (in addition to the width of your finger) in how large a diamond looks. So if you wear a 4.25, but have long fingers, the diamond will look smaller than if you have the same ring size, but short hands.

There are other factors that will make a diamond look larger (which you could avoid if you wanted it to not look bigger) -- thin bands, semi or full bezel settings, and pave or other sidestones.

But as I say, you should go with the diamond that is the most sparkly, particularly if the sizes are about the same. Also, make sure that you look at it from all angles and under different lighting because your diamond will never look as good as it does in the store (where they spend a LOT of money to get the lighting just right).

 

[lookingforcushions]

CCL, mine is the bottom left in that video.

I think I'm going to get the brighter one like Antelope1 suggested. The difference is small and it's a much brighter stone. Thanks!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

CCL, mine is the bottom left in that video.

Not likely, those faceup smaller in 1ct than the measurements you have provided as they are cut with deeper pavilions.

1CT Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows would be about 5.7 X 5.7 mm example http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7526/
0.9 Ct SCHA about 5.4 X 5.4 http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6982/
If you are getting one like it make sure they provide ASET and a hearts image.
I think I'm going to get the brighter one like Antelope1 suggested. The difference is small and it's a much brighter stone. Thanks!

 

[lookingforcushions]

Hi it's definitely not a Square Hearts and Arrows diamond. I think I'm comfortable knowing it's a bright diamond from the Ideal Scope- it's almost all red - some pinks and barely any white... definitely the best that I've been able to find.

One more quick question. The place I'm buying from is offering a small discount if I pay with cash, but I think it's because I've been back and forth on this so much that they're saying that if they do discount it, there will be a no-refund policy on the stone. I'm going to get the stone appraised right away, and the one caveat to this no-refund policy is that the store says that they're willing to refund me if it appraises for less than the sales price. They have a good reputation and have sat with me for hours answering all my question on the stones, showing it to me under different lightings, and under an Ideal Scope. So I feel comfortable that this stone is genuinely a gorgeous stone. Any thoughts or red flags? Thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks again!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hi it's definitely not a Square Hearts and Arrows diamond. I think I'm comfortable knowing it's a bright diamond from the Ideal Scope- it's almost all red - some pinks and barely any white... definitely the best that I've been able to find.

One more quick question. The place I'm buying from is offering a small discount if I pay with cash, but I think it's because I've been back and forth on this so much that they're saying that if they do discount it, there will be a no-refund policy on the stone. I'm going to get the stone appraised right away, and the one caveat to this no-refund policy is that the store says that they're willing to refund me if it appraises for less than the sales price. They have a good reputation and have sat with me for hours answering all my question on the stones, showing it to me under different lightings, and under an Ideal Scope. So I feel comfortable that this stone is genuinely a gorgeous stone. Any thoughts or red flags? Thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks again!

RED FLAGS

NEVER buy a stone without a refund policy in place for 100% of the purchase price no questions asked. Never never buy a stone paying cash and thus without receiving a receipt -- trust me, you will get no receipt as the reason they want you to pay cash is to avoid a paper trail and thus defraud on their taxes . To buy a diamond this way puts you in a very vulnerable position as a consumer and frankly, is shady practice by a jewler. Many smaller jewelers do engage in this type of "deal" with consumers. But it is not a deal to you at all. The family jeweler my husband used does this, and in my naivite we fell for it hoping to save some money. But the trouble is that if there is a problem, you are stuck.

What might the problem be?

You change your mind and want something else.

You discover after paying that it is not as eye clean as you wanted.

You discover that it is not as colorless as you wanted.

You discover that in fact the clouds negatively affect the optics of the stone and it looks hazy in the sun.

You discover that you paid $1000 more than you could have bought it for online.

You discover that the stone has been clarity enhanced and is structurally unsound.

Though these sound like scare stories I guarantee they are not. I have read threads from consumers just like you running into each of these problems with diamonds they bought from reputable jewelers, and which they had appraised. And in each case they did not have a receipt and/or a refund policy. And in most cases they lost a lot of money to try and salvage something from the deal.

Do yourself a favour and find a more reputable jeweler, or insist on a written return policy and a proper receipt.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Hi it's definitely not a Square Hearts and Arrows diamond. I think I'm comfortable knowing it's a bright diamond from the Ideal Scope- it's almost all red - some pinks and barely any white... definitely the best that I've been able to find.

One more quick question. The place I'm buying from is offering a small discount if I pay with cash, but I think it's because I've been back and forth on this so much that they're saying that if they do discount it, there will be a no-refund policy on the stone. I'm going to get the stone appraised right away, and the one caveat to this no-refund policy is that the store says that they're willing to refund me if it appraises for less than the sales price. They have a good reputation and have sat with me for hours answering all my question on the stones, showing it to me under different lightings, and under an Ideal Scope. So I feel comfortable that this stone is genuinely a gorgeous stone. Any thoughts or red flags? Thoughts would be welcome.

If you want an informed opinion we will need to see those Idealscope images and the GIA grading report. If you have the grading report number I can pull it up online.

You wrote your stone looks like a SCHA(bottom left in the video) but now you say it doesn't so are you sure of what you are getting?
For fancy shapes it is important to differentiate between intense light return from higher angles and weaker light return from lower angles. An idealscope will not be able to differentiate well that is why we prefer to view ASET images.

No refund, No ASET those are two big red flags for me.

Most appraisor's will only be able to confirm the stone matches the grading report (weight, color, clarity etc.), most cannot help you with cut selection or comparables in fancy shapes.


Thanks again!

 

[antelope1]

I agree with CCL. No unconditional refund policy is a big red flag. They should give you at least 2 weeks to change your mind -- no strings attached.

Also, have you checked the price of your diamond against the PS search tool? (I literally had an appraiser do that as the last step in an appraisal.) That will give you an idea for whether you are getting hosed.

I totally understand where you're coming from (the merchant has spent a lot of time with you, been nice, and you may feel obliged to buy from them). Don't feel obliged! You're a consumer, and you have a right to get whatever you want from whomever you want.

Good luck!

 

[LadyBlue]

Don't buy a stone that has a no return policy, BIG RED FLAG, that's pretty risky.

About the cash thing, I have to say that with this economy, the company a work for gives a cash disccount. We do pay taxes, we do give invoices, but right now credit cards are charging all the way to 3.5% per transaction and with this economy we give the choice to our clients, checks and cash free of charge vs Credit Cards we do charge them a fee. So I I don't see as a red flag to pay with cash and get a disccount.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Don't buy a stone that has a no return policy, BIG RED FLAG, that's pretty risky.

About the cash thing, I have to say that with this economy, the company a work for gives a cash disccount. We do pay taxes, we do give invoices, but right now credit cards are charging all the way to 3.5% per transaction and with this economy we give the choice to our clients, checks and cash free of charge vs Credit Cards we do charge them a fee. So I I don't see as a red flag to pay with cash and get a disccount.

I should have been specific. A small discount for cash accompanied by a receipt is great -- seems common to avoid cc fees. But some places offer larger discounts, like "no taxes" if you pay cash and will not give a receipt, that is the red flag I referenced.

No return policy is a no go no matter what, IMO.

 

[lookingforcushions]

Wow. Am I glad I posted that question. I'm pretty excited about the stone, but I'm going to hold off unless they can give me a window within which I can get the stone checked out and return the diamond if needed.

CCL, The store doesn't have an ASET scope in house, but I think I can find an appraiser who does and take a picture and get that posted on here. I also made a mistake with my previous answer, my stone is the one on the bottom right in the video.

I appreciate all the honest responses and help. I'll post an update with stats and Idealscope and ASET images when I get those.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Wow. Am I glad I posted that question. I'm pretty excited about the stone, but I'm going to hold off unless they can give me a window within which I can get the stone checked out and return the diamond if needed.

CCL, The store doesn't have an ASET scope in house, but I think I can find an appraiser who does and take a picture and get that posted on here. I also made a mistake with my previous answer, my stone is the one on the bottom right in the video.

I appreciate all the honest responses and help. I'll post an update with stats and Idealscope and ASET images when I get those.

Depending on your timeframe and location I reccomend the following three appraisors:

David Atlas (Horsham, PA)
Richard Sherwood (Sarasota, Florida)
Neil Beaty (Denver, Colorado)

They all should be able to take an ASET and magnified images for you.

The 8 main thin type (bottom right in the video) is what I would have expected if it was a true Cushion Brilliant and almost a perfect square.

Do you have the GIA report number or the stats on the two stones? Depth % Table % Dimensions L X W X H?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi it's definitely not a Square Hearts and Arrows diamond. I think I'm comfortable knowing it's a bright diamond from the Ideal Scope- it's almost all red - some pinks and barely any white... definitely the best that I've been able to find.

One more quick question. The place I'm buying from is offering a small discount if I pay with cash, but I think it's because I've been back and forth on this so much that they're saying that if they do discount it, there will be a no-refund policy on the stone. I'm going to get the stone appraised right away, and the one caveat to this no-refund policy is that the store says that they're willing to refund me if it appraises for less than the sales price. They have a good reputation and have sat with me for hours answering all my question on the stones, showing it to me under different lightings, and under an Ideal Scope. So I feel comfortable that this stone is genuinely a gorgeous stone. Any thoughts or red flags? Thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks again!

RED FLAGS

NEVER buy a stone without a refund policy in place for 100% of the purchase price no questions asked. Never never buy a stone paying cash and thus without receiving a receipt -- trust me, you will get no receipt as the reason they want you to pay cash is to avoid a paper trail and thus defraud on their taxes . To buy a diamond this way puts you in a very vulnerable position as a consumer and frankly, is shady practice by a jewler. Many smaller jewelers do engage in this type of "deal" with consumers. But it is not a deal to you at all. The family jeweler my husband used does this, and in my naivite we fell for it hoping to save some money. But the trouble is that if there is a problem, you are stuck.

What might the problem be?

You change your mind and want something else.

You discover after paying that it is not as eye clean as you wanted.

You discover that it is not as colorless as you wanted.

You discover that in fact the clouds negatively affect the optics of the stone and it looks hazy in the sun.

You discover that you paid $1000 more than you could have bought it for online.

You discover that the stone has been clarity enhanced and is structurally unsound.

Though these sound like scare stories I guarantee they are not. I have read threads from consumers just like you running into each of these problems with diamonds they bought from reputable jewelers, and which they had appraised. And in each case they did not have a receipt and/or a refund policy. And in most cases they lost a lot of money to try and salvage something from the deal.

Do yourself a favour and find a more reputable jeweler, or insist on a written return policy and a proper receipt.

+100 on this!

Offering an additional discount in return for making such an item final sale makes me question how they will react if you do have to request the refund.
Another red flag is tying the refund to an appraisal value- which they have no control over whatsoever- therefore an unconditional refund is not what they normally give.
I agree, it's nice for them to spend time with you but that has nothing at all to do with policy, and how they enforce it.
If you ask for that refund, their entire tone may change based on what they have proposed already.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

I think some clarification is required:

1) They are offering a cash discount, this is common if you save the vendor the credit card processing fees.
I don't know what it has to do with the refund policy, does that mean if you don't take the cash discount you can still get a refund?

2) It sounds like if the stone doesn't appraise as stated on the grading report they will accept it as a return. Value apparaisals are very subjective so it sounds like that is just a sales line, we are giving you a good deal, if your appraisal is for less we will allow you to return it.

Both of these are not unconditional return policies, also you didn't tell us how many days you have to make the return and if the return policy was given to you in writing.