Help Choosing Princess Cut

[allotrope_help]

Hello All,

I''ve been reading through many posts and have spent some time researching cuts, but I''m still at a loss when it comes to choosing a stone, both IRL and online.

I''m looking for stones that are between 0.90 and 1.10 ct, G-H color, VS1-VS2 clarity with the best cut possible. My budget for the loose stone is $4000.

I visited a local jeweler with a good reputation who is offering me a stone right at the top of my budget:

Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 5.14 x 5.13 x 3.83 mm
Carat Weight: 0.91 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS2
Proportions:
Depth: 74.7%
Table: 73%
Girdle: Thick
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None

No ideal-scope images, no stats on the pavilion depth, crown height or angles. What can I look for in the store as a consumer to determine if this stone is worth the price?

Additionally, any suggestions on criteria I can use while searching online for stones within my parameters that are outstanding cut-wise? Or perhaps point me to some threads that can help me out. I''d also be willing to look at some of the experts suggestions too!

Thanks for any help and for the opportunity to learn along the way.

 

[stone-cold11]

This is a good one, but slightly above your budget.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=141

It is impossible for us to choose a fancy cut from numbers alone, so we would need images to see. AGS is the only lab that grades Princess cut in cut performance, so ask your jeweler if he carries a AGS0 cut grade stone and then compare it with the GIA stone above. Else find get yourself an ASET scope.

To read the ASET image, http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/27/2009 3:53:18 PM
Author:allotrope_help
Hello All,

I've been reading through many posts and have spent some time researching cuts, but I'm still at a loss when it comes to choosing a stone, both IRL and online.

I'm looking for stones that are between 0.90 and 1.10 ct, G-H color, VS1-VS2 clarity with the best cut possible. My budget for the loose stone is $4000.

I visited a local jeweler with a good reputation who is offering me a stone right at the top of my budget:

Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 5.14 x 5.13 x 3.83 mm
Carat Weight: 0.91 carat
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS2
Proportions:
Depth: 74.7%
Table: 73%
Girdle: Thick
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None

No ideal-scope images, no stats on the pavilion depth, crown height or angles. What can I look for in the store as a consumer to determine if this stone is worth the price?

Additionally, any suggestions on criteria I can use while searching online for stones within my parameters that are outstanding cut-wise? Or perhaps point me to some threads that can help me out. I'd also be willing to look at some of the experts suggestions too!

Thanks for any help and for the opportunity to learn along the way.

Welcome!

If you want to check out the diamond in the store, I would suggest ordering an ASET scope, that way you will get a good idea of the cut quality. You can order those here.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=23&ShowAdd=Y

ASET are best for fancy shapes rather than Idealscope, this tutorial explains its use.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

As to buying online, you can use the search tool above Pricescope your Diamond, enter Princess and use the search by cut feature. This will bring up the best cut stones. Look at AGS0 Princess and hand selected GIA Princess ( GIA do not grade these shapes for cut at this time).

These vendors all sell beautifully cut Princess, you will be in excellent hands with any of them.

www.highperformancediamonds.com

www.whiteflash.com

www.goodoldgold.com

www.exceldiamonds.com

Lastly it really isn't possible to pick Princess by numbers, images are really needed even with AGS0 Princess, so a vendor who has in house diamonds such as the above and an expert eye is invaluable.

Also if you want to view some top cut Princess in person, Jareds sell AGS0 Princess if there is one closeby.

Hope this helps!

 

[allotrope_help]

Thanks for the quick replies. I''m going to spend some time reading up on the ASET scope and order one this evening - even if I only use it once! I''m excited to begin looking for the perfect stone for my fiance to be, but I''m also picky about what I get for her. She has been more than clear that she''s happy with whatever I pick out. In my case, I''m keying on an ideal or excellent cut, near a carat, eye clean and not visibly yellow. I think I have the size, clarity and color aspect down. The cut is causing me to loose sleep, though. lol I''ve been to 4 local jewelers who haven''t been able to tell me much about cut other than place several choices in front of me in my range and assure me that all are cut very well.


Stone-cold - Thank you for your help! I like the stone based on my limited knowledge, but it is a little above where I want to be financially. What about that should I be keying in on? The numbers, the ideal-scope and ASET images? I''d love to find something similar right at or below that $4k mark.

Lorelei - Thank you too! Both of you are helping me to gain a little more knowledge. Are there ever problems with local jewelers when you present them a loose stone to be set in one of their settings?

Thanks again for the responses. I appreciate it!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/27/2009 4:28:58 PM
Author: allotrope_help
Thanks for the quick replies. I'm going to spend some time reading up on the ASET scope and order one this evening - even if I only use it once! I'm excited to begin looking for the perfect stone for my fiance to be, but I'm also picky about what I get for her. She has been more than clear that she's happy with whatever I pick out. In my case, I'm keying on an ideal or excellent cut, near a carat, eye clean and not visibly yellow. I think I have the size, clarity and color aspect down. The cut is causing me to loose sleep, though. lol I've been to 4 local jewelers who haven't been able to tell me much about cut other than place several choices in front of me in my range and assure me that all are cut very well.


Stone-cold - Thank you for your help! I like the stone based on my limited knowledge, but it is a little above where I want to be financially. What about that should I be keying in on? The numbers, the ideal-scope and ASET images? I'd love to find something similar right at or below that $4k mark.

Lorelei - Thank you too! Both of you are helping me to gain a little more knowledge. Are there ever problems with local jewelers when you present them a loose stone to be set in one of their settings?

Thanks again for the responses. I appreciate it!

You will end up with a beautiful diamond, it certainly sounds as if you have put a lot of thought into it! Sadly that isn't surprising about the lack of knowledge concerning cut with some stores by all accounts...

As to having a diamond set by another party, it can be difficult in as much as often should any damage occur, the setter won't assume responsibility for a diamond they didn't sell, also it can be problematic trying to get insurance for the procedure. So I would think about getting the diamond set by the seller if that would be an option for you.

Crafted by Infinity diamonds are cut to top standards so you can adjust colour and clarity ( with SI clarity grades always check with the seller that these are eyeclean) in order to fit the budget etc. I would suggest considering SI clarity grades as they will make the budget go a bit further if needed.

With Princess initially look at AGS0 and hand selected GIA Princess as I mentioned above, then examine the photos and ASET images, ASET in particular is of great importance in evaluating the quality of the light return. Numbers are important but really only provide a chalk outline of the diamond.

You can check out Infinity's website to see what they have available which might suit you, or speak to Wink from highperformancediamonds, he is a great chap and will be pleased to help you!

www.craftedbyinfinity.com

 

[stone-cold11]

Look at the ASET, that will tell you the most about the cut quality of a princess.

Forgot to mention that HPD will offer a 5% discount for PS paying by wire-transfer, so the price of the diamond will be on the order of 4.2k instead of 4.5k. Also HPD has great buy back, tradeup policy, so if that is above your budget, buy a smaller stone and in a year or so you can trade it up for it''s full value for a bigger stone.

 

[allotrope_help]

Date: 4/27/2009 4:34:22 PM
Author: Lorelei
You will end up with a beautiful diamond, it certainly sounds as if you have put a lot of thought into it! Sadly that isn''t surprising about the lack of knowledge concerning cut with some stores by all accounts...

What scares me is that it is an independent jeweler and the gentleman is a GIA Graduate Gemologist. I''m not certain if he doesn''t know - or just doesn''t want to explain. Either way - it makes me uneasy.

Date: 4/27/2009 4:34:22 PM
Author: Lorelei
As to having a diamond set by another party, it can be difficult in as much as often should any damage occur, the setter won''t assume responsibility for a diamond they didn''t sell, also it can be problematic trying to get insurance for the procedure. So I would think about getting the diamond set by the seller if that would be an option for you.

OK - that is valuable advice. Assuming I go the online route, I''ll find a setting through the seller.

Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate it!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/28/2009 3:52:43 PM
Author: allotrope_help

Date: 4/27/2009 4:34:22 PM
Author: Lorelei
You will end up with a beautiful diamond, it certainly sounds as if you have put a lot of thought into it! Sadly that isn''t surprising about the lack of knowledge concerning cut with some stores by all accounts...

What scares me is that it is an independent jeweler and the gentleman is a GIA Graduate Gemologist. I''m not certain if he doesn''t know - or just doesn''t want to explain. Either way - it makes me uneasy.

Date: 4/27/2009 4:34:22 PM
Author: Lorelei
As to having a diamond set by another party, it can be difficult in as much as often should any damage occur, the setter won''t assume responsibility for a diamond they didn''t sell, also it can be problematic trying to get insurance for the procedure. So I would think about getting the diamond set by the seller if that would be an option for you.

OK - that is valuable advice. Assuming I go the online route, I''ll find a setting through the seller.

Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate it!

You are most welcome! It doesn''t seem to be unusual that some in jewellery stores even with qualifications don''t understand the importance of cut quality. Often customers have other priorities due to the other C''s being emphasized over the years such as colourless, high clarity and the all important CARAT. There are many out there who still think cut means the shape of the diamond, or wouldn''t be interested in cut anyway. But the number of educated consumers are growing rapidly!

That sounds like a plan getting the diamond set by the seller, that way you will be covered.

 

[allotrope_help]

Date: 4/27/2009 5:00:19 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Look at the ASET, that will tell you the most about the cut quality of a princess.


Forgot to mention that HPD will offer a 5% discount for PS paying by wire-transfer, so the price of the diamond will be on the order of 4.2k instead of 4.5k. Also HPD has great buy back, tradeup policy, so if that is above your budget, buy a smaller stone and in a year or so you can trade it up for it''s full value for a bigger stone.

OK - I''m keying on the ASET images in my searches. As far as the stone''s dimensions, angles, etc - is there any thread/FAQ/etc that I can reference that would allow me to quickly eliminate stones when searching? Or is viewing the ASET good enough?

I do like the HPD stone - it''s seems impeccable - but perhaps I''ll need to take a slightly less perfect cut to hold my size/budget constraints.

Thank you to everyone for the help offered so far. I''m learning a lot as I go!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/28/2009 3:57:56 PM
Author: allotrope_help

Date: 4/27/2009 5:00:19 PM

OK - I'm keying on the ASET images in my searches. As far as the stone's dimensions, angles, etc - is there any thread/FAQ/etc that I can reference that would allow me to quickly eliminate stones when searching? Or is viewing the ASET good enough?

I do like the HPD stone - it's seems impeccable - but perhaps I'll need to take a slightly less perfect cut to hold my size/budget constraints.

Thank you to everyone for the help offered so far. I'm learning a lot as I go!

Princess can't really be judged by numbers, ASET and detailed photos are essential. If you look at AGS0 cut grade and hand selected GIA Princess then the numbers should be in a good range, however there are a few guidelines I will add for you.

This is advice quoted from expert Paul Slegers and should be helpful to you concerning Princess if you want the best cut you can get.

"- Reject the ones with a very thick girdle, because of weight hiding where you do not want it.
- Limit yourself to square stones, since it is much more difficult to direct light correctly if the stone is not square (depends upon your comfort-level, of course, and it is more a matter of risk-reduction, and not of correct selection).
- Reject all with VG polish or symmetry, since none of them could be seriously called ideal. Again debatable, but it is a manner of selection.
- Reject the ones with a too big table (say 80% or more). Depending upon your comfort-level, you might want to reduce this table-size-level."

Then of course ASET and photographs come into their own. Also you can find some well cut Princess which aren't up to the very highest cut standards but these do need choosing with great care and images are a MUST. You could also consider perhaps lower colour and clarity which would help the budget. Maybe look at I or J colour and SI clarities which can be a great choice if verified eyeclean by a trusted vendor. A top cut diamond will still look very white and clean with these grades.

 

[allotrope_help]

Date: 4/28/2009 4:06:20 PM
Author: Lorelei

Princess can''t really be judged by numbers, ASET and detailed photos are essential. If you look at AGS0 cut grade and hand selected GIA Princess then the numbers should be in a good range, however there are a few guidelines I will add for you.


This is advice quoted from expert Paul Slegers and should be helpful to you concerning Princess if you want the best cut you can get.


''- Reject the ones with a very thick girdle, because of weight hiding where you do not want it.

- Limit yourself to square stones, since it is much more difficult to direct light correctly if the stone is not square (depends upon your comfort-level, of course, and it is more a matter of risk-reduction, and not of correct selection).

- Reject all with VG polish or symmetry, since none of them could be seriously called ideal. Again debatable, but it is a manner of selection.

- Reject the ones with a too big table (say 80% or more). Depending upon your comfort-level, you might want to reduce this table-size-level.''


Then of course ASET and photographs come into their own. Also you can find some well cut Princess which aren''t up to the very highest cut standards but these do need choosing with great care and images are a MUST. You could also consider perhaps lower colour and clarity which would help the budget. Maybe look at I or J colour and SI clarities which can be a great choice if verified eyeclean by a trusted vendor. A top cut diamond will still look very white and clean with these grades.

As always, your advice is great! I''m going to do a little digging on GOG and Excel mainly because I''m within 1.5 hrs of their offices, I might even take a drive to view some in person. If I post some links, would you critique?

Thanks again!

 

[jet2ks]

If you are open to a little lower color, here is a beautifully cut stone. It was posted in another thread, but the other person is still looking, so I have to assume they aren''t interested.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5816/

It is a .97ct J color, and absolutely gorgeous!! (and under budget)

 

[allotrope_help]

Date: 4/28/2009 8:16:35 PM
Author: jet2ks
If you are open to a little lower color, here is a beautifully cut stone. It was posted in another thread, but the other person is still looking, so I have to assume they aren''t interested.


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5816/


It is a .97ct J color, and absolutely gorgeous!! (and under budget)

You and I must have been looking at that stone at the same time. I was just getting ready to post the link for expert comment, but you beat me to it!

The numbers and the ASET image looked great to me, I''m only slightly concerned about the J color. I understand that a well cut stone will show whiter than a poorly cut stone. I''m planning on 18k white gold setting. Do you think the color will be undetectable to the untrained eye once the stone is set?

I''m thinking I''ll reserve it and might see if I can take a ride down to Long Island tomorrow to view it in person.

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/28/2009 6:56:17 PM
Author: allotrope_help

Date: 4/28/2009 4:06:20 PM
Author: Lorelei

Princess can''t really be judged by numbers, ASET and detailed photos are essential. If you look at AGS0 cut grade and hand selected GIA Princess then the numbers should be in a good range, however there are a few guidelines I will add for you.


This is advice quoted from expert Paul Slegers and should be helpful to you concerning Princess if you want the best cut you can get.


''- Reject the ones with a very thick girdle, because of weight hiding where you do not want it.

- Limit yourself to square stones, since it is much more difficult to direct light correctly if the stone is not square (depends upon your comfort-level, of course, and it is more a matter of risk-reduction, and not of correct selection).

- Reject all with VG polish or symmetry, since none of them could be seriously called ideal. Again debatable, but it is a manner of selection.

- Reject the ones with a too big table (say 80% or more). Depending upon your comfort-level, you might want to reduce this table-size-level.''


Then of course ASET and photographs come into their own. Also you can find some well cut Princess which aren''t up to the very highest cut standards but these do need choosing with great care and images are a MUST. You could also consider perhaps lower colour and clarity which would help the budget. Maybe look at I or J colour and SI clarities which can be a great choice if verified eyeclean by a trusted vendor. A top cut diamond will still look very white and clean with these grades.

As always, your advice is great! I''m going to do a little digging on GOG and Excel mainly because I''m within 1.5 hrs of their offices, I might even take a drive to view some in person. If I post some links, would you critique?

Thanks again!

Of course, be glad to! And thanks for your very kind words, it means a lot to me!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/28/2009 8:30:11 PM
Author: allotrope_help

Date: 4/28/2009 8:16:35 PM
Author: jet2ks
If you are open to a little lower color, here is a beautifully cut stone. It was posted in another thread, but the other person is still looking, so I have to assume they aren''t interested.


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5816/


It is a .97ct J color, and absolutely gorgeous!! (and under budget)

You and I must have been looking at that stone at the same time. I was just getting ready to post the link for expert comment, but you beat me to it!

The numbers and the ASET image looked great to me, I''m only slightly concerned about the J color. I understand that a well cut stone will show whiter than a poorly cut stone. I''m planning on 18k white gold setting. Do you think the color will be undetectable to the untrained eye once the stone is set?

I''m thinking I''ll reserve it and might see if I can take a ride down to Long Island tomorrow to view it in person.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Excellent idea, it looks great but if that one doesn''t pan out Jon should be able to show you some others. Also there is a GREAT pizza place very close to GOG so if you need lunch then apparently thats the place to go!

 

[allotrope_help]

So I pulled the trigger and reserved the stone. I''m going to head down to GOG tomorrow after lunch. Wish me luck! If this isn''t the one - I''m hoping Jon will have something else in stock. If not - I''m still loving the hpd stone. I just wish they were a little closer to my budget.

Thanks to all that helped!

 

[stone-cold11]

Good Luck.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/29/2009 12:57:46 PM
Author: allotrope_help
So I pulled the trigger and reserved the stone. I''m going to head down to GOG tomorrow after lunch. Wish me luck! If this isn''t the one - I''m hoping Jon will have something else in stock. If not - I''m still loving the hpd stone. I just wish they were a little closer to my budget.

Thanks to all that helped!

Let us know how it goes!

 

[jet2ks]

Best of luck and just remember one word once you decide on a diamond

pictures . . . . . pictures . . . . . . pictures!!!

 

[allotrope_help]

Thank you everyone for all the help. I visited GOG yesterday and was very pleased. Jonathan was excellent to deal with, spending a lot of time with me showing the stone. We spent time looking at the stone and compared against others with the ASET and IdealScope viewers, the GIA DiamondDock and spent some serious time with the stone under the scope. I walked away feeling very informed about the cut quality of the stone.

As far as my concerns with the J color, I can now personally attest to the difference cut quality can make on the perceived color of a stone. I could not detect a hint of yellow compared to other near colorless stones. I didn''t bother comparing to D,E,F as I''m not certain it''s a fair comparison... and besides - I''m not sure I''d have seen the difference anyway.

I am really liking the stone. My only concern now (which didn''t even occur to me until this morning) is that the AGS lab report is from June 1, 2006. Would a stone have sat in inventory for that long or is it likely the stone''s been mounted?

The other concern is that when looking at the stone under the scope, the characteristics looked different than the plot on the AGS lab report. The characteristics plotted on the report were tough to see and there was a characteristic (either a crystal or feather, near the girdle) on the stone that wasn''t on the report. There are also some variances (dimensions and angles) between the AGS report and the Sarin report, which I didn''t pick up on until today. I''m not certain why that would be. It doesn''t look like it''s the wrong stone for the report though, the inscription on the girdle matches the report number. Jonathan didn''t seem too concerned yesterday and I wasn''t until I slept on it... Any thoughts from the experts?

Other than those two concerns, the stone wowed me. It was bright and contrasty under diffuse light and exhibited nice fire under specular light. It was eye clean and as colorless as I could hope for.

The pizza place next door was excellent - they have a full Italian menu as well as pizza. If anyone visits GOG, they should stop and grab a bite!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/1/2009 3:51:45 PM
Author: allotrope_help
Thank you everyone for all the help. I visited GOG yesterday and was very pleased. Jonathan was excellent to deal with, spending a lot of time with me showing the stone. We spent time looking at the stone and compared against others with the ASET and IdealScope viewers, the GIA DiamondDock and spent some serious time with the stone under the scope. I walked away feeling very informed about the cut quality of the stone.

As far as my concerns with the J color, I can now personally attest to the difference cut quality can make on the perceived color of a stone. I could not detect a hint of yellow compared to other near colorless stones. I didn't bother comparing to D,E,F as I'm not certain it's a fair comparison... and besides - I'm not sure I'd have seen the difference anyway.

I am really liking the stone. My only concern now (which didn't even occur to me until this morning) is that the AGS lab report is from June 1, 2006. Would a stone have sat in inventory for that long or is it likely the stone's been mounted? Thats not actually old in the scheme of things, I wouldn't worry. Sometimes a diamond takes a little while to find a home. Jon will be able to reassure you there.

The other concern is that when looking at the stone under the scope, the characteristics looked different than the plot on the AGS lab report. The characteristics plotted on the report were tough to see and there was a characteristic (either a crystal or feather, near the girdle) on the stone that wasn't on the report. There are also some variances (dimensions and angles) between the AGS report and the Sarin report, which I didn't pick up on until today. AGS numbers are the ones of authority compared to Sarin, some variance is usual. I'm not certain why that would be. It doesn't look like it's the wrong stone for the report though, the inscription on the girdle matches the report number. Jonathan didn't seem too concerned yesterday and I wasn't until I slept on it... Any thoughts from the experts? I trust Jon implicitly so if he says there isn't cause for concern then I wouldn't worry. If the inclusion was lower on the diamond rather than seen face up that could be why it wasn't plotted.

Other than those two concerns, the stone wowed me. It was bright and contrasty under diffuse light and exhibited nice fire under specular light. It was eye clean and as colorless as I could hope for.

The pizza place next door was excellent - they have a full Italian menu as well as pizza. If anyone visits GOG, they should stop and grab a bite! LOL! I am so glad you enjoyed it, I have heard wonderful things of that place!

Sounds like it all went great!