help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!!!

[tonkatsu]

hi everyone, this is my first post, but i've been a regular reader here for the last month as i've tried to figure out what to do with my engagement ring. i'm proposing in just a few days, and i'm flummoxed as to which ring to select! i thought i had decided, but all my friends are telling me the other one is better. which ring do you like better?

ring one (labeled as "one" in the pictures, or the top ring if they're together): eight pavilion main cushion (so the top one in the first post of this very helpful link: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-cushion-plots-demystified-somewhat-with-pics.63323/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-cushion-plots-demystified-somewhat-with-pics.63323/[/URL]), 1.51 carats, H, SI1 (eye clean), VG/G, 7.39x6.54x4.45, 1.13 l/w ratio, thin to slightly thick girdle, 54% table 68.0% depth. It's set in a 2.4mm platinum eternity ring with 30 diamonds with minimum H color, total carat weight of 0.64

ring two (labeled as "two" or the bottom ring): four pavilion main cushion (second one in the above link, although it has some extra facets and is labeled on the GIA report as cushion modified brilliant instead of cushion brilliant), 1.58 carats, F, SI1 (eye clean), E/VG, 7.21x6.59x4.51, 1.08 l/w ratio, slightly thick to extremely thick girdle, 59% table 68.4% depth. It's set in a 2mm platinum eternity ring with 27 diamonds with minimum G/H color, total carat weight of 0.54

i won't say anything else because i don't want to bias you. i'm sorry the pictures aren't very good -- if anyone has any thoughts about how to make them better, please let me know. i just realized some of them are taken under yellow light, which obviously doesn't help you judge the color difference.....

one ring is about 13% more expensive than the other, but that's not a big deal to me. i'd rather just get the better ring. they're obviously very similar. and she'll love either of them; i know i'm stressing about nothing. still, i'd be really interested in any thoughts....

let me know if you have any questions, and i'll try to answer them. and even if no one posts, thanks to this community -- it's been so helpful!

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

here are a couple more.... sorry they're bad. (these are my fingers, by the way.)

 

[slg47]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

based solely on these pics, my eye is drawn to ring 1 more than ring 2. it looks brighter to me (but that could be an artifact of the photography). I would get whatever one YOU like the best

 

[antelope1]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

Based just on your pix, tonkatsu (love love love tonkatsu, btw!), I'd go with one as well. The band on one is more delicate and lower than the band on two, and diamond 1 appears to be brighter / whiter than diamond 2 (which has a dark area in the photos).

It's really hard to tell from stills, however, so you should go with what looks best to you. Tilt and examine from all angles, and try different types of lighting (overhead florescent, daylight, incandescent, etc). Extra specially -- look at it sideways while on your finger (just like she would if she were driving).

Good luck!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

From the photographs neither is the vintage 8 main style you referenced, the virtual facets(flashes) are much smaller more modern style.

If I had to guess both would be modern cushions one 8 main one 4 main and either or both could have extra facets on the pavilion giving them the modified name.

Closest to Cushion 6(8main), 8(4 main) and 9(4 main Modified) in this video I put together.

Comparison_of_the_Most_Common_Cushion_Styles

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

thanks everyone. i looked at a lot of cushion cut diamonds (50?) and these definitely are not the crushed ice kind, which was most of what i looked at. they have antique-style, chunky sparkle and not at all pinpoint-type sparkle, and were the least pinpointy of any of the diamonds i looked at. i know diamond 1 has 8 pavilion mains and diamond 2 has 4. i think diamond 1 (with the 8 mains) is a bit more sparkly, but it's an H, whereas diamond 2 is an F. interesting that apparently you couldn't tell from the photos -- to me diamond 1 does appear to have a bit more yellow, but i'm biased since i KNOW it's an H.

anyway, i'm going to do as you suggest and look at both of them in all kinds of environments and go with my gut. my guy right now says diamond 2 is better, but everyone (including people here) say they like diamond 1 better. i think i may be overreacting to the color difference.....

thanks again to all. any further thoughts would be most welcome.

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

by the way, ring 1 does not say "modified" on the GIA report -- it looks just like the report i referenced, which others have referenced as being antique-style 8 pavilion main. (i know GIA reports aren't always accurate. but i actually think my photography skill, or lack of, may be why the cut isn't showing.) ring 2 does say "modified cushion brilliant", and seems to have extra facets. the chart on its GIA report looks just like this one:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1267104.asp
(this isn't the diamond, obviously.)

thanks again.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

Tonkatsu,

Don't let GIA inclusion plots confuse you they are not meant to show the relative sizes of facets.

The vintage/antique style has larger facets(and flashes) and a tall crown and an appearance like this.



The modern 8 main thin cushion brilliant(not modified) has an appearance like this and medium to small sized flashes, if cut well they will not exhibit the crushed ice appearance which has very small pinfire flash. Your photographs are a little bit dark and unclear but I would say that stone #1 is most like this one below. If you post the vendor listing link and photograph I could tell you more definitively.



If you are done your search and are happy thats great, but if you are looking for a chunky antique style cushion neither of the ones ones you selected fit the profile.

See my guide and video for examples.
The PS thread link you used as a reference is a little bit dated with a few errors.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

Nothing really helpful to add but I have always been curious about what the plot on Diamond 2 looked like in real life. Glad to see the photos. Would you hate me if I told you that I don't like either of the diamonds? I am not even talking about performance etc but purely based on what I see in the photos you sent.

If you want to see some real life pictures of what the 8 thin main cushion brilliants look like, you can check out my ring at https://www.pricescope.com/communit...making-maytal-hannah-halo-erd-cushion.147719/

In addition to what CCL posted, there are plenty of examples that show what a chunky cushion looks like including any of the August Vintage Cushions on GOG's website.

This is a picture of my chunky 8 main cushions beside my modern 8 main cushion. Too bad the modern diamond is all out of focus and you can't really see but the diamond is the same one in the re-made setting linked above. You can see a distinctly different look from the diamonds you posted above.



This is the plot for what we have been calling a modern 8 thin main cushion. The plot is what you would see for the diamond on the right above and also the one I linked to above. This plot is not what we called crushed ice but also not what we call chunky.


This is the plot for what we have been calling a chunky 8 thick main cushion. See the difference? This is the plot that would give the broader chunky flashes. This is the plot you would see for the diamond on the left above.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

Of the two, I like the H one better, number 1. But go with your preference. If I am totally honest I agree with Charmy though and based only on those photos I am not crazy about either one. BUT you see them in person. If you like the higher color then I suggest either going for the F you have, or trying to find a cushion cut like one but in higher color!

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

thanks everyone. i see i've been using the wrong vocabulary. "ring two" -- the one with the thinner band and 4 mains -- can be seen here:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1292480.asp

it's now clear to me that "ring one" -- the one with the thicker band -- is an 8 thin main cushion. unfortunately the gia report and pictures are not online. i could scan in the report if it'd help. but it looks just like the one charmy posted, and also a lot like the 2nd one CCL posted.

at this point it may be just a vocabulary thing -- i thought i liked the antique-style look but maybe i wanted something in between, with a bit more flash. "ring two" actually is flashier than "ring one", although just a bit.

it's fine that you don't like either ring -- i asked for your opinions after all! the pictures really don't do either ring justice. everyone's who has seen them live -- including several people who know a lot about diamonds -- has been gaga over both of them. i definitely chose very simple settings, based on my fiancee's style.

it seems like people really like goodoldgold here, and i definitely used their videos. but they ignored 2 emails and a call from me, so i can't say i'd be comfortable buying from them..... but most of all i think what i thought i wanted isn't actually what i wanted....

thanks again for all your help.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

I don't want to rain on your parade or desuade you from either diamonds - afterall, you are the one who has seen them in person. It appears to me that diamond 1 is a modified cushion brilliant as well and not a 8 thin main cushion brilliant. I suspect it is a GIA plot error but I am only judging from a couple photos online.

I will just caution you that most diamonds will look beautiful until you have trained your eyes. I first purchased a 4 main cushion brilliant which I thought was gorgeous and nothing else can beat it. Then I saw my 8 thin main cushion ... to discover how wrong I was. It was only after years of looking at cushions that I have now trained my eyes. With that said, not everyone likes the same things and these two could absolutely be the one for you.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

No, I appreciate the honest feedback. I'm definitely not "trained" -- in the past 2 months I have looked at dozens of diamonds in person and quite a few more online. These were my two favorites, except for an "antique" (?) cushion cut that I saw in an antique store on Newbury St. in Boston that I really loved, that got me on the cushion cut trail! It was way overpriced, at least to my eye -- they were asking $15K for a 1ct with no cert. It was set in a really nice yellow gold filigree setting, but still.... and I think it was a J or K -- in the store they told me I SI1 which makes me think it was more like K SI2 or even I1. But the cut was totally beautiful, very chunky and sparkly. I've looked for something similar and these 2 were as close as I could find. Part of the reason I didn't follow up with GOG is I don't like the "big culet" look -- a small culet is OK but the type that you can just see right through isn't for me. The august vintage stones they have all seem to have large culets, and there's little inventory in my price range.

Diamond 1 definitely has 8 pavilion mains -- you can see them. Maybe the diamond is actually this type?
http://www.bluenile.com/cushion-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-h-color-vvs2-clarity_LD01128431

I actually saw that diamond in person, and it very much had the "crushed ice" look. Diamond 1 above is much prettier. But I'm biased!

Anyway, if anyone happens to see a ~1.5 carat old style cushion cut without a huge culet for 10K or so, I'd be interested. I looked and looked and those really are the best I could find. Oh, I also don't want totally square.... looking for 1.1 or 1.15 or so. Thanks again, and don't worry -- you can be harsh on the ones I found!

 

[AnneinGA]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

Tonkatsu,
Have you tried good old gold? Here's a link to a search 1.25-1.75 cushions:

http://goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=16&ctMin=1.25&ctMax=1.8&resultsColumns=268435471

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

hi anne, i have looked at good old gold quite a bit. they really don't have what i'm looking for, unfortunately. they all have a large culet, or they're too square, or they're the crushed ice type. the one that's most like what i'm looking for is this one:
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7389/

but even it has a medium culet. still, i emailed them about this stone, and they never wrote back. they also didn't write back to an email i sent a month or so ago to their general "find me a diamond" email -- i asked if they could help me find a stone like what i wanted, and spelled out all that i've described in this thread. finally, i called about 2 weeks ago and left a message -- again no response. i know GOG has a lot of backers out there and maybe they're just really busy, but they've totally ignored me..... i guess i just thought they didn't have what i was looking for.

 

[AnneinGA]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

That's right, I remember from your earlier post that you did not get good response. Sorry about that.

 

[slg47]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

have you tried ERD (engagement rings direct?) several PSers have used them to source cushions and they also do custom settings

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

Are you letting our opinions sway you too much? Did you have doubts about the two you have in hand before you came to ask about them here?

I ask because while I agree completely with Charmy that until you have seen really well cut stones you may not know what you are missing, for many many people la creme de la creme is not what they are looking for. So before you throw out those two as an option, I suggest asking yourself if you love one of them, and asking yourself whether *knowing* you have the most ideally proportioned stone is important to you. If you do not love these two options, and you like knowing you have the best, then I suggest calling ERD and asking them to help locate an 8main like Charmy's for you or even a chunky style cushion (they have access to modern repros that are really good, just not quite up to AVCs in terms of optics). BUT if you are in love with one of those two diamonds, or were before you asked for opinions, then really think about whether you should in this case trust your eyes since you have seen the diamonds in person and we have not.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

I also want to note that the culet will not be as noticable in real life as the pictures. Also, try calling GOG again during their regular business hours. While it is certainly poor show that they missed your call, sometimes people make mistakes and if it is a style of diamond cut you really like (or think you will like) then sometimes forgive and forget plus a little more effort on the consumers part is ok in my book. But it is up to you, of course, if you are not interested you can still find a lovely diamond elsewhere.

 

[Matthewmon]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

email jonathan at good old gold. i just bought a diamond from him and it was all done by email i never even had to call him. over 3 months i probably exchanged 50 emails with him and his staff. They always got back to me pretty fast.

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

thanks everyone. honestly i think both of the stones are beautiful. i just showed them to someone who worked in marketing at cartier in france and she said so too. (that said, she's not a true diamond expert.) i think my fiancee would like either of them. of course i'd like to get the best stone possible. i guess i felt like i'd seen enough -- i really have seen close to 50 in person, and several more via the internet -- to make an informed decision. what i think you guys are telling me, and i believe it, is most cushions out there are not really great, so seeing 50 relatively randomly is no guarantee of finding a really nice stone. (someone said "all diamonds look great," but i must say quite a few of the 50 i saw did not look great to me, and this also made me think i had found some winners.)

maybe i will give jonathan a call/email. i never emailed him directly; i emailed 2 general emails from the website. maybe they don't monitor them, or they went into spam.

at this point i feel like what i have is great, but i've heard enough to make me think i should at least check out other options.

i'll let you know what happens. thanks again.

p.s. i saw a couple diamonds with large culets and i didn't like how the center just seemed to suck in light... maybe they were just poorly made.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

maybe i will give jonathan a call/email. i never emailed him directly; i emailed 2 general emails from the website. maybe they don't monitor them, or they went into spam.
Call don't e-mail if my advice, always, for consumers.
p.s. i saw a couple diamonds with large culets and i didn't like how the center just seemed to suck in light... maybe they were just poorly made.
probably.

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

here's the gia number for diamond 1
1126304018

and the carat weight is 1.51

if you look it up on the gia report check, you'll see that gia listed it as the 8 thin pavilion main cut.

 

[antelope1]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

tonkatsu, if you emailed GOG 2 weeks-1 month ago you probably got them in the middle of Jewish holidays -- and they were probably closed (and then returned to overstuffed email boxes, don't we all know that feeling)...

But, GOG is not the only PS merchant who can get you a cushion! ERD and Perry (at Leon Mege) can source a cushion as well.

Are you set on buying a diamond in the setting vs buying one loose? My only thought is that buying a diamond that is already set is that it won't really let you judge the color or clarity of the diamond accurately -- which will affect the overall price. For example, I looked at an I color this summer, and then went home and checked the GIA report, and saw that the cert said it was a J color. The price the merchant was offering (assuming that it was an I color) was fair, but if it had been a J color, we would have been hosed by $2k.

It's not that the merchant was being dishonest, it's just that diamonds come out of the ground a certain color (which is enhanced by cutting) and that color is a continuous variable that is graded against some fixed values -- and opinions can differ when differences in color are slight. (Btw, in the case of my I / J, it was a color recheck, so the older certificate that was a J was "wrong" -- but the incident made me understand that it was an I/J, not an H/I...)

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

The GIA cert looks good. Can you try taking photos of the diamond in different settings?

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

thanks as always for all the advice. i really appreciate it.

here's a pic of the 8 main diamond (?) in sunlight. (i called it "thick" in this picture, referring to the band.) i think you can see pretty clearly that there are actually 8 mains. (or are there only 6?)

i've also posted one more of diamond 2/the thin one, and then the 2 of them together.

i wish i knew how to take better pictures.... i think taking them straight on, directly at the face, isn't allowing me to show their sparkle. maybe it'd help if i took the pics at an angle?

and yes, i viewed all these stones before they were mounted.....

thanks again for the help.

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

OK, you guys win! I just got my GOG AVC by UPS, and yes, it looks so much better than the other two. It costs 20% more (than the more expensive one of the originals -- the "thin" one or diamond 2! 40% more than the less expensive one -- diamond one or the "thick" one), but it'd be really hard to give the diamonds above now that I've seen the AVC in person. I busted my budget a bit but am quite happy -- it's such a beautiful stone. (And don't worry, I paid in cash -- maybe we'll get a DJ at the wedding instead of a band!)

Thanks so much for steering me in the right direction. I'm getting it set in a very thin (2mm) pave band that shows off the diamond. I'll post pics in a week or two, after it's set (and after I pop the question!).

 

[CharmyPoo]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

This is a good news story on why it is so important to actually see multiple diamonds live. The AVC videos are great but having it in person really helps the comparison process. I am glad you got a diamond you love!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

OK, you guys win! I just got my GOG AVC by UPS, and yes, it looks so much better than the other two. It costs 20% more (than the more expensive one of the originals -- the "thin" one or diamond 2! 40% more than the less expensive one -- diamond one or the "thick" one), but it'd be really hard to give the diamonds above now that I've seen the AVC in person.

I'd like to think you won, you made a more educated decision. Many customers would not pay 20% more for an AVC over a generic 8 main, but a larger number on this forum would.

This video shows the styles you were considering side by side view it in full screen in HD. Now that you have seen three styles you can appreciate the differences.
http://www.vimeo.com/15185665


I busted my budget a bit but am quite happy -- it's such a beautiful stone. (And don't worry, I paid in cash -- maybe we'll get a DJ at the wedding instead of a band!)

Sorry this forum does that to people I'm afraid. Thanks so much for steering me in the right direction. I'm getting it set in a very thin (2mm) pave band that shows off the diamond. I'll post pics in a week or two, after it's set (and after I pop the question!).

You are very welcome, I feel as though it looks like most here are steering cushion seekers to the same vendors. This is true but it is only because we don't see other vendors stepping up and offering comparable stones with the optical tests to prove it.

 

[tonkatsu]

Re: help choosing between 2 cushion cuts! any help is great!

"This forum does that to people I'm afraid"
-- Yeah, that's why I didn't ask for advice on the setting (Plus I'm pressed for time.....)

GOG's great -- they even put a little loupe in the package, which was a nice touch. It's like, "go ahead and inspect me, we want you to know what you're getting."