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Help choosing between 1.4 carat

art505

Rough_Rock
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Jun 24, 2018
Messages
20
My girlfriend and I are ring shopping together and have narrowed it down to two options (we think). I wanted to go with a local brick and mortar retailer with great review so I know there may be a mark up built into the price. Here are the two options (both include a $350 setting that my gf prefers and the costs of setting it, etc): (1) 1.4 carat, G color, VS2, triple excellent cut, no fluorescence, $11,475 or (2) 1.4 carat, F color, VS2, triple excellent cut, no fluorescence, $12,120.

My girlfriend prefers the F color although there’s not really a difference between the two. (She’s also chipping in so I definitely want her to be happy.) Overall though, do these seem like somewhat appropriate prices for a brick and mortar retailer? Thanks in advance!
 

art505

Rough_Rock
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Jun 24, 2018
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Wanted to add that the jeweler recommended a diamond that was 1.41 carat with the same specifications except for being an H for 10,760. We’re both leaning against that one (even though it seems like the best value based on its lack of color lines up against the others) but wanted to throw it in as an option.
 

Luce

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Jun 1, 2015
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906
Hi art505,

How exciting to be ring shopping!!!
Are these GIA or AGS certified? Also triple x is such a wide range, we would need to know the table, crown and pavilion angles to make any kind of a comparison.o_O
 

art505

Rough_Rock
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Jun 24, 2018
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Thank you! We’re both really excited. They’re all GIA certified. I don’t have the angles at the moment but can get them tomorrow when we go back. We may have to put a refundable deposit down tomorrow so was just trying to get a sense of what might be the best to go with initially for that.

The jeweler went through them and said they all measured up to what we should be aiming for but he may have been just going off what was required for the GIA certification of excellent.
 

rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
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We may have to put a refundable deposit down tomorrow so was just trying to get a sense of what might be the best to go with initially for that.
Why on earth would you need to put a deposit down before you are ready to commit? Not me. Ask for the GIA numbers, or failing that, the crown angle, pavilion angle, depth percentage, table percentage, and lower girdle facets. With that information we can help you compare these for performance and reasonableness of budget.
 

art505

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
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20
Two of the diamonds aren’t his so he called them in for us. It isn’t an issue unless one of them gets called back. He said if that happened, we could just start again and it wouldn’t be a big deal. The not wanting to start over was more on us. But totally see your point.
 

art505

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
20
Hi everyone,

Just got the details on the two diamonds (price is everything, including basic setting which will be specially made but would run around $400 and shipping/insurance). My apologies for not posting these originally:

1) 1.4, F, VS1, triple X, no fl., price $12,225
7.14-7.18 x 4.42 mm,
depth 61.7
table 59
crown angle 34.5 (height 14)
pavilion angle 41.2 (depth 43.5)
medium to slightly thick faceted girdle

2) 1.4 G, VS1, triple X, no fl., price $11,570
7.13 -7.18 x 4.43 mm
depth 61.9
table 58
crown angle 35.5 (height 15)
pavilion angle 40.8 (depth 43)
medium to slightly thick faceted girdle

We know we could find something cheaper online but really prefer a brick and mortar. Would love to get your opinion on whether these are good prices and which would be better! (The jeweler says to go with the G.) Thank you all!
 

tkyasx78

Brilliant_Rock
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May 28, 2017
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1,452
I have bought most of my rings with my local jeweler. If I could do it again though I would have bought online.
Do you have the aset (Angular Spectrum Evaluation Tool) on these 2 diamonds if you must buy locally?
 

art505

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
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20
(Girlfriend here.) Unfortunately, we don't. I would be fine with buying online but he is set on buying in person so I'm afraid we're stuck on that front.
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
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Aug 27, 2011
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1,780
HCA scores are 3.7 and 2.8 respectively so I’d say no to both, personally.

Stick to GIA XXX

Look for these numbers:

Table 54-58%
Depth 60-62.3
Crown 34-35
Pavilion 40.6-40.9

Work out the HCA score (Holloway Cut Advisor) using the tool under the tools tab above. Discard all those with a score above 2. Ask for light performance imaging such as ASET mentioned above.

OR look for AGS 0 stones which already have been checked for light return etc.

Easy peasy :twisted2:

PS I know you don’t want to buy online but for similar money you could get this or similar, top notch cutting, super sparkly,

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3983288.htm
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
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It's not really about price as much as it's difficult to find the best cut stones in B&M stores compared to online.

There are well recommended B&M based on location, where are you based)/near
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 3, 2004
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30,782
(Girlfriend here.) Unfortunately, we don't. I would be fine with buying online but he is set on buying in person so I'm afraid we're stuck on that front.
Tell him not for long if he doesn't listen to you. :lol:
 

doc3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
21
I just bought a 1.42 H/VS1 super ideal cut diamond from an online retailer with a very similar budget. The stones in local stores simply could not compete in terms of performance within in the budget. I'd strongly recommend looking online. At worst, you can compare quality/prices. You can always buy online and have the diamond shipped to you for setting at a local jeweler. Most places will give you a full refund at a minimum of 2 weeks if you decide to return it.

Here's a link to my thread in case it's helpful:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rookie-needs-some-advice.241008/
 

art505

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
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(Girlfriend here again.) I was searching for an online option (or two) to show him. What do you all think about this diamond?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.40-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3783009

I know the crown angle is off but the HCA returned a score of 1.7 so didn't know if that was flexible. If anyone has suggestions, I would love to get them! I don't want to go below a G (I'm pretty color sensitive) and would prefer to stay a VS2 or higher for some peace of mind buying online. I would love to come in under 11,500 including the band. (I like them simple so a $400 budget for that should do.) Of course being below that would be an added plus or, if at that point, bigger than 1.4 carat. I'd really appreciate your help and thanks for all the advice so far!
 

Kaycee2018

Shiny_Rock
Premium
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May 14, 2018
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424
OP, I just wanted to add that we were hesitant to order online as well when I recently upgraded, but we are so glad we did and we will likely never buy a diamond in a brick & mortar again. And I can attest to the vendor of the diamond that @Snowdrop13, Adiamor, since that is the vendor we ultimately purchased from and I am thrilled with my upgrade (in my avatar). With all the information available on the web, the advice on this forum, and the generous return policies offered by most vendors, you really don't have anything to loose in buying online if you are willing to take the time to research, etc. GL!
 

art505

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
20
We're considering the diamond snowdrop suggested. (Thanks, btw!) I got the ASET images and would love input. No idea really what I'm looking at.



 

art505

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
20
OP, I just wanted to add that we were hesitant to order online as well when I recently upgraded, but we are so glad we did and we will likely never buy a diamond in a brick & mortar again. And I can attest to the vendor of the diamond that @Snowdrop13, Adiamor, since that is the vendor we ultimately purchased from and I am thrilled with my upgrade (in my avatar). With all the information available on the web, the advice on this forum, and the generous return policies offered by most vendors, you really don't have anything to loose in buying online if you are willing to take the time to research, etc. GL!
Your ring is beautiful! Your experience is great to hear. I'm considering one of their pave settings if this diamond ends up looking like a winner based on what people say. I've tried searching pricescope for thoughts on Adiamor's settings but am finding a lot of really old posts. When you were researching, did you find any consensus on how they are generally? Thanks!
 

tuckie

Shiny_Rock
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Apr 21, 2013
Messages
184
First of all, you are doing the right thing by shopping for this stone together. Well done! Totally the way to ensure you are both thrilled!

On your search itself, it is my humble opinion that you will see more visual impact by going from a typical GIA XXX (like the ones you have been offered by the shop) to a more ideal cut diamond than you will going from an H to an F. I'm all about things I can see, and in that regard cut is king.

It can be hard / labor intensive to find truly well cut stones in local brick & mortars and easier to find via online retailers who specialize in top cut stones. Why? Well, partially because many customers (most of us before we found PS) believed that GIA XXX = best cut possible. Now if I'm a local jeweler and my customers are going to be satisfied by that, why should I invest in the time / resources / pain to use ideal scopes, ASETs, etc?

The least complicated way to get top cut stones are to buy something branded like A Cut Above from Whiteflash, or a Crafted By Infinity, or a Brian Gavin Signature. These are great stones, but also have a price premium.

You can also use the specifications that Snowdrop suggested - which are a little less certain but certainly a great way to identify a well cut stone. There can be more price competitive options with this route.

Where do you live? If you are in the NYC area maybe a solution could be to go visit ID Jewelry and have Yuketiel call in some great stones that you could see in person before purchasing. I bought my stud stones from him and am very happy.
 

art505

Rough_Rock
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Jun 24, 2018
Messages
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gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
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May 26, 2015
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The ASET images and H&A images are fantastic, I would not hesitate to go with it, excellent choice and good price.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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What is most important to you -- budget, carat, color, clarity or cut? Rank in order of most important to least important. Buying diamonds is a zero sum game, meaning if you stay within a budget constraint then you will sacrifice one of the C's for a different C. Most of us here feel cut is THE most important quality as it's the "wow factor" when you look at the ring.

When you aren't comparing diamonds side by side, you most likely won't be able to differentiate a G from an H. Or a 1.30 from a 1.40ct. But you will see the sparkle and fire of a well cut stone. Plus, when you get super ideal cut stones, they actually appear to be more white and larger than they really are.

That said, the images you posted are pretty good. There are symmetry issues with the hearts & arrows. I see Adiamor has called this their "Affinity" cut, which leads you to believe it's the best of the best. For them, that may be true but you can do better. To understand what I am talking about with how the H&A images are out of whack, please look at these sites & compare to your images.

https://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-grading/hearts-arrows-diamonds/
http://www.heartsandarrows.com/grading-hearts-arrows-ideal-cut-diamond-pattern.aspx
https://beyond4cs.com/hearts-and-arrows/

For ASET interpretation, this can help:
https://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-4cs/cut/aset-images-evaluation/

For nearly the same money, you can have a true H&A super ideal cut stone. The carat weights are slightly less, but the stone dimensions are essentially the same. FYI, it takes ~0.20mm difference to see a difference with the naked human eye. So you will not be able to see a size difference between any of these 3 stones.

Another advantage here is these stones are AGS certified. This is better than GIA from the fact that AGS actually uses complex 3D modeling to evaluate each individual facet of the SPECIFIC diamond in question and then assigns a cut rating to it -- in these cases, they all received Ideal0, which is the highest you can receive. In comparison, GIA utilizes averages and (sometimes generous) rounding to report angles and percentages and generic data to determine the "excellent" rating. This is why everyone here recommends you get images to confirm if a GIA stone is actually worth pursuing. Also, GIA is known to be more relaxed on their color grading than AGS. Because of AGS grades more strictly and with more precision, it is a more preferred certificate.

Should you decide to pursue one of these stones, you will have the best cut quality. You will have an eye clean stone that is VS2. The color will be an H, but again with it being a super ideal, it will actually face up whiter and most likely look like the GIA certified G stone (assuming you can really tell a difference when you don't have two diamonds side by side to compare). The difference is very minute and most people can't normally see 1 color grade of difference.

But here's one of the best parts -- the trade-in policy! It's the best you will find. Simply spend $1 more for any stone (size, clarity, color, etc doesn't matter) and you get FULL credit for the original stone to apply towards the new purchase.

Not to mention WF is a very well trusted and respected dealer on this forum. I almost purchased my own stone from here, but ultimately decided to go with BGD. I actually recommended @doc3's stone to him as well, which is also a BGD stone. I have a ton of respect for both BGD and WF. And prior to listing these, I checked BGD's site but they didn't have anything that met your criteria. Also, I checked HPD which is another great vendor, and the same story.

Take a peek. See what you think. Fire back with questions and we can all help you. I'm just glad you are opening up your consideration to online vs B&M. I've got zero doubts you'll get a much higher quality stone for less money.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3965468,3986351
 

art505

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
20
Thanks, everyone! I really appreciate all of this. We've decided that we'll probably go with an online retailer. We're still a little nervous but everyone here has made a great case for it and convinced us. Our priorities are probably in the following order: (1) budget ($11,200); (2) cut (I'm okay compromising a bit on this though--tbh everything looks pretty sparkly to me.); (3) carat; (4) color (I am pretty sensitive, I wasn't a fan of the Hs that I saw but recognize that could change with cut); (5) clarity (as long as eye clean).

I really liked what I could see about the adiamor option (especially the price). Will the symmetry issues that you mentioned create a noticeable difference?
 

doc3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
21
Not to mention WF is a very well trusted and respected dealer on this forum. I almost purchased my own stone from here, but ultimately decided to go with BGD. I actually recommended @doc3's stone to him as well, which is also a BGD stone. I have a ton of respect for both BGD and WF. And prior to listing these, I checked BGD's site but they didn't have anything that met your criteria. Also, I checked HPD which is another great vendor, and the same story.

Take a peek. See what you think. Fire back with questions and we can all help you. I'm just glad you are opening up your consideration to online vs B&M. I've got zero doubts you'll get a much higher quality stone for less money.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3965468,3986351
Agree with checking out Whiteflash. They have a large selection of super-ideal cut stones at pretty reasonable prices.

BGD also has an 8% off sale that you would qualify for, which would knock ~$1K off a diamond in your price range. May be worth calling them to talk to a rep in person & see if they have any stones on the way that have not been posted to the website yet. They tend to sell quick in the range you're looking at but you can get great value if you time it right.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,337
Agree with checking out Whiteflash. They have a large selection of super-ideal cut stones at pretty reasonable prices.

BGD also has an 8% off sale that you would qualify for, which would knock ~$1K off a diamond in your price range. May be worth calling them to talk to a rep in person & see if they have any stones on the way that have not been posted to the website yet. They tend to sell quick in the range you're looking at but you can get great value if you time it right.
DEFGH188 is the discount code for the 8% off. Basically it applies to all white stones D-H. Lesley is your girl. She's awesome and will be able to tell you if they have anything coming into stock that isn't listed on their website. Also, nice accent and happens to be Brian's wife. :cool2:

FYI, I did check BGD site prior to listing the WF stones. There were some Advance Select stones but clarity was IF and VVS1 and IMO shot them out of the price range, even with the discount. Here they are :

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.337-h-vvs1-round-diamond-bfg-785485
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.300-h-if-round-diamond-bfg-785229

If you aren't familiar with the Advance Select series:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-signature-advance-selection

I'd really encourage you to look at BGD's site. If you aren't aware, Brian helped co-found WF and their H&A line (A Cut Above, or ACA). He then went out on his own. His trade-in policy still accepts some ACA's of certain time periods which I think is cool. Brian is well known for his superb diamond cutting. Only downside I can see is their upgrade policy requires you spend $1 more and upgrade 2 of 3 characteristics: clarity, color or carat before you get credit for the original stone.

FYI, be sure to ask Lesley if they have any "Blue Series" diamonds coming available. These will have some fluorescence in them and can be a great way to help you save a little on your budget. This is what myself and @doc3 ended up buying. The added benefit is that when the stones are so well cut, the fluor actually helps brighten/whiten the stone a little more. It works very well in G-H stones. So now that H is a smidge brighter from being ideal cut & having some fluor. Check out the links below for more info & be sure to watch the videos about fluor.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/about/
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
30,782
DEFGH188 is the discount code for the 8% off. Basically it applies to all white stones D-H. Lesley is your girl. She's awesome and will be able to tell you if they have anything coming into stock that isn't listed on their website. Also, nice accent and happens to be Brian's wife. :cool2:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.300-h-if-round-diamond-bfg-785229
She is the real BOSS not Brian!. ;)) I love working with Lesley. :clap:.

OP, If you like IF clarity go for the above stone. I love the specs. :love:
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,780
The Adiamor stone looks very nice and certainly fits your budget and colour/clarity requirements. It has a better cut than either of the 2 you saw in person.

If you are likely to upgrade in the future then that might be a consideration- Whiteflash has a better upgrade policy than most other vendors.

Here’s a superideal cut G VS1, you can see the difference in price, though!

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3994060.htm
 
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