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Help and a few questions with a princess cut purchase

J

Jay-Tee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
20
Hi all

First time poster, so please be nice!

Hoping someone can help me with a purchase of a princess cut diamond I'll be making in the next few weeks.

I've got about $6.5K to spend on a stone and setting. These are two stones that I've managed to find that I'm interested in

a) 1.06 E VS1 T-62.0 D-68.3 5.79*5.63*3.84 / G-Medium to Slighly Thick / Polish-X / Sym-X
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1334238.asp?a_aid=dmnd1357

b) 1.08 F VVS2 T-71.0 D-68.4 5.71*5.71*3.91 / G-Think to Thick / Polish X / Sym-VG
http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=81176233

Any opinions on which stone is better?

I'm buying it online as I'm in Australia and it's much cheaper in the US and also no tax (i'll be getting it delivered to a friend who will bring it to here)

Also, a general question about PC tables. I've read on various sites about low (<67%) and high (68-75%) tables being a matter of personal preference. However, no one actually mentions what the consequence of the table %'s on the actual attributes of the stone - e.g. the effect of table size on fire/brilliance/scintillation. Can anyone enlighten me?

Your help is much appreciated!!
 
do you have images/ASET images of the others?
 
slg47|1291618214|2788632 said:
do you have images/ASET images of the others?
Click to expand...

Hi slg47. Thanks for the reply

No images or ASET on the JA one yet, I've requested it and now waiting for it to arrive

I've asked the question with Abazias as well
 
Jay-Tee|1291613936|2788601 said:
Hi all

First time poster, so please be nice!

Hoping someone can help me with a purchase of a princess cut diamond I'll be making in the next few weeks.

I've got about $6.5K to spend on a stone and setting. These are two stones that I've managed to find that I'm interested in

a) 1.06 E VS1 T-62.0 D-68.3 5.79*5.63*3.84 / G-Medium to Slighly Thick / Polish-X / Sym-X
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1334238.asp?a_aid=dmnd1357


This stone looks pretty good- but you really need ASET and Idealscope images to determine the cut, sparkle and any leakage or obstruction issues...

b) 1.08 F VVS2 T-71.0 D-68.4 5.71*5.71*3.91 / G-Think to Thick / Polish X / Sym-VG
http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=81176233


No possible way to tell the cut quality on the abazias stone. You can't determine cut quality on numbers alone for fancy cut stones (unlike a round brillant)... you need pictures of the stone- aset- and idealscope.
quote]
Click to expand...
 
Ditto, WF stone is the best, safest out of the 3.

Initially Princess is developed to maximize the yield from a diamond rough, obtained by approximately sawing a rough into 2 halves. A larger table generally means less of the rough needed to be polish away, increasing the yield thus profit for the cutter. But this is not always true as it depends on how high the girdle is. Facet placement is ultimately what determines the performance of the princess cut but this cannot be determined from just the table and total depth or average angles.
 
Stone-cold11|1291682355|2789329 said:
Ditto, WF stone is the best, safest out of the 3.

Initially Princess is developed to maximize the yield from a diamond rough, obtained by approximately sawing a rough into 2 halves. A larger table generally means less of the rough needed to be polish away, increasing the yield thus profit for the cutter. But this is not always true as it depends on how high the girdle is. Facet placement is ultimately what determines the performance of the princess cut but this cannot be determined from just the table and total depth or average angles.
Click to expand...


agree- with the information provided- WF is the better option. Until you get the asets, you can't really determine the cut quaity and light return of the JA and abazias stone.
 
Thanks for all your help everyone!

I've asked JA and A for ASETS/idealscope images, but the email they've sent their responses to is down so I won't have access to it for now :angryfire:

What is the general preference for table sizes? Do most people prefer low or high?

I'm trying to find a local jeweller who has stock of a low/high table stone of similar size and grade to compare, but haven't been able to yet
 
this aset looks good as well.
 
Hmmm, tough choice. Here's what I think...

-Abazias stone - would rule it out because they don't provide ASETs. Easier to buy one of the others since they're in your budget.
-JA stone - has potential but need ASET, and it seems that you can't get it! The stone is tilted in the photo but otherwise looks good...depth is less than table...girdle is good...and has the advantage of facing up HUGE for a 1ct princess.
-WF stone - looks nice and it's an ACA, but I do tend to prefer a bit more red in my ASETs. Certainly not a bad choice, but I'm tempted to see how the JA stone compares.
-Solomon stones - both look pretty nice, but I prefer the ASET of the second. At 5.75 x 5.76, it's almost a perfect square, and it faces up huge for a 1ct princess as well. Judging based only on the info available, that would be my pick (the Solomon 1.085 G/VS2).
 
jstarfireb|1291858325|2791634 said:
Hmmm, tough choice. Here's what I think...

-Abazias stone - would rule it out because they don't provide ASETs. Easier to buy one of the others since they're in your budget.

agreed. unless yuo can get the ASET you will not really know how the stone will perform.

-JA stone - has potential but need ASET, and it seems that you can't get it! The stone is tilted in the photo but otherwise looks good...depth is less than table...girdle is good...and has the advantage of facing up HUGE for a 1ct princess.

I think this stone is a great option- the ASET will tell more, but I think it may be a great stone from what we know so far.

-WF stone - looks nice and it's an ACA, but I do tend to prefer a bit more red in my ASETs. Certainly not a bad choice, but I'm tempted to see how the JA stone compares.

good choice as well.

-Solomon stones - both look pretty nice, but I prefer the ASET of the second. At 5.75 x 5.76, it's almost a perfect square, and it faces up huge for a 1ct princess as well. Judging based only on the info available, that would be my pick (the Solomon 1.085 G/VS2).
Click to expand...

the second solomon is better option, the aset has more red, which i think results in better performance.
 
jstarfireb|1291858325|2791634 said:
Hmmm, tough choice. Here's what I think...

-JA stone - has potential but need ASET, and it seems that you can't get it! The stone is tilted in the photo but otherwise looks good...depth is less than table...girdle is good...and has the advantage of facing up HUGE for a 1ct princess.
Click to expand...

Hi jstarfireb. Thanks for your reply

JA are currently getting an ASET image for me for this stone, so it's still in the shortlist. I think you meant to say can instead of can't?

jstarfireb|1291858325|2791634 said:
-WF stone - looks nice and it's an ACA, but I do tend to prefer a bit more red in my ASETs. Certainly not a bad choice, but I'm tempted to see how the JA stone compares.
-Solomon stones - both look pretty nice, but I prefer the ASET of the second. At 5.75 x 5.76, it's almost a perfect square, and it faces up huge for a 1ct princess as well. Judging based only on the info available, that would be my pick (the Solomon 1.085 G/VS2).
Click to expand...

All things being equal with the second Solomon 1.085 G/VS2 and the WF 1.015 F/VS2 stone, is a colour upgrade from G to F really worth another 10%?? I am a bit worried about the clouding in the cetre of the G/VS2 stone though. I've asked for an image of it

I think the 3 shortlist for me is the JA stone, WF, and the second Solomon stone. Will the thin girdle cause any issues on the Solomon stone?

How do the AGS determine the ideal-0 grade? From what I can tell from the ASET, there's a huge difference between the first and second Solomon stones, there seems to be a lot more red and less green yet they're given the same rating?
 
Well, I meant "can't" based on what you said:

I've asked JA and A for ASETS/idealscope images, but the email they've sent their responses to is down so I won't have access to it for now
Click to expand...

But if you're gotten through to them, that's great! Keep in mind that JA will only send out 3 ASETs per customer, so if you ask for additional ASETS, choose wisely!

The F/G issue is personal preference, but I believe the difference between F and G is so subtle that it's not worth the extra money for the WF stone (especially given that the Solomon stone has a better ASET). The cloud should not be an issue with a VS2 grading. A thin girdle isn't a problem...anything between thin and slightly thick is good; just watch out for very/extremely thin because it can post a breakage risk. And I'll reiterate that I think the second Solomon stone has the best ASET and a lot of other great things going for it, so I would put that over the WF stone right now. The major thing that the JA stone has going for it is E color, but I suspect the ASET may not be as nice as that Solomon stone. Given the choice between an E with a worse ASET and a G with a better ASET, I would hands-down choose the G. If the ASETs are comparable, the JA stone would be a nice choice.
 
jstarfireb|1291870829|2791841 said:
Well, I meant "can't" based on what you said:

I've asked JA and A for ASETS/idealscope images, but the email they've sent their responses to is down so I won't have access to it for now
Click to expand...

But if you're gotten through to them, that's great! Keep in mind that JA will only send out 3 ASETs per customer, so if you ask for additional ASETS, choose wisely!

The F/G issue is personal preference, but I believe the difference between F and G is so subtle that it's not worth the extra money for the WF stone (especially given that the Solomon stone has a better ASET). The cloud should not be an issue with a VS2 grading. A thin girdle isn't a problem...anything between thin and slightly thick is good; just watch out for very/extremely thin because it can post a breakage risk. And I'll reiterate that I think the second Solomon stone has the best ASET and a lot of other great things going for it, so I would put that over the WF stone right now. The major thing that the JA stone has going for it is E color, but I suspect the ASET may not be as nice as that Solomon stone. Given the choice between an E with a worse ASET and a G with a better ASET, I would hands-down choose the G. If the ASETs are comparable, the JA stone would be a nice choice.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware I'm only allowed 3. I better save up the other two!

At this stage, without seeing the ASET for the JA stone, I'm favouring the Solomon Brothers one. It's a nice size, and almost perfectly square as well. The only thing that slightly concerns me is the G/VS2 to E/VS1.
 
To me, E to G wouldn't make much of a difference, because I'm not very color-sensitive. To the vast majority of people, the color of a G is imperceptible, especially when mounted in a ring. So I wouldn't worry about that unless you or your girlfriend are extremely color-sensitive (or if you guys want the status or purity symbol of a colorless stone).
 
Actually she's already my fiance, she lost her ring and this is an insurance replacement

The previous stone was a 0.80ct EE VVS2 – D: 73.5, T: 70.0 GIA

I didn't get to do much research at the time i bought the first one, and was pretty disappointed with the look/sparkle (my own fault really). Now I get a chance to get her something that is truly beautiful

I'm still waiting for the ASET for the JA stone.

I put in a request with Solomon Brothers yesterday and they still haven't replied. Anyone deal with them before?

Do they have a good rep?
 
SB is a drop shipper, do not think they have ASET, none posted so far.

I think best to call SB and have it put on hold for you.
 
Hi Stone-cold11

Thanks for the reply. They do have a physical store as well as copies of the AGS certs that contain the ASET's on their website.

I'm just waiting for an image of the actual stone, hoping they can provide this.

The ring will be delivered to a friend over in the US who's heading down to Aust just before Christmas so I'm eager to get it finished and delivered in time for that
 
Stone-cold11|1291936208|2792585 said:
SB is a drop shipper, do not think they have ASET, none posted so far.

I think best to call SB and have it put on hold for you.
Click to expand...

I was going by the ASETs on the AGS diamond quality documents when I commented on them.
 
Hi all

I've got the ASET for the JA stone, looks to me as if there's not as much red as the SB stone or is it just the image?

1334238aset.jpg
 
Yeah, I think it's dominated by green, so I'd stick with the SB stone based on the AGS cert ASET image.
 
I actually like A's ASET best out of this last bunch. I would now say A>B>C in terms of cut quality, but the differences in real life are likely to be subtle. A also has the best color, but faces up the smallest. B would probably be my choice, but the lower price and huge face-up size of C are really tempting (it's probably cheaper because it's not a branded stone).

This would also be a good choice, as a compromise between the cut quality of A and the price/size of C:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-2356500.htm
 
Hey jstarfireb

All the 3 stones plus settings should be under or just meet my budget. Because it's an insurance claim, i get to use up to the value, but there's no refund it i go under it so i plan on "maximising" the price - that said, the SB stone should leave me under by quite a bit

I'll add the one you recommended to the list!

Only reason I'm slightly hesitant with A is it's the face is 'smallest' of the 3.

I'm still waiting for SB to email me back. I think i might give them a call, even though it'll be 2am here :snore:
 
Oh, that's right - I keep forgetting it's an insurance claim! In that case, I'd just pick the one with the best cut, since clarity is the same across the board and color is similar in all of them.

I think it might be a good idea to post all of the ASETs here side by side...so here they are. I actually think the diamond I suggested has the best ASET, followed by A. B and C have more green. All of them, however, are much, MUCH better than the average princess, and will be gorgeous, sparkly diamonds!

diamond a aset.jpg

diamond b aset.jpg

diamond c aset.jpg

jstar suggested aset.jpg
 
And for reference, here is the page for my Whiteflash ACA princess, bought in 2007, but I still think of its ASET as a benchmark when comparing princess ASETs. The husband and I picked out this stone together, despite the rather odd combination of low color and high clarity, because it had the best ASET that was in our budget.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-231916.htm#
 
I am in agreement with the stone Jstar reccommended.
 
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