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help! 2.35 D/VS1 no fluorescence VS 3.04 E/VS2 medium blue

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lvny

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
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9
Hello, I am new to this forum and your valuable advices are greatly appreciated!! Which one of the following stones is better? Have to admit that I have this vanity thing inside and secretly prefers the 3.04 ct,
2.gif
also research on PS shows 3ct+ stone tends to retain more value and appreciate more. The 3.04 ct stone has been discounted over 10% for the fluro, is it enough? I worry for future update or resale. The med blue does not give any oily look on the 3.04 E/VS2 to naked eye and even makes the diamond whiter. Both stones are GIA certified.

1. Carat: 2.35
Color: D
Clarity: VS1
Cut: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Depth/Table/Girdle/Pavilion:61.4%,56%,34.5%,40.8%
HCA score: 1.2
Hearts & Arrows: almost perfect (measurement-8.55*8.58x5.26)
Price: $52,000

2. Carat: 3.04
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Depth/Table/Girdle/Pavilion:61.4%,56%,35%,40.6%
HCA score: 0.9
Hearts & Arrows: very good (measurement-9.31x9.39x5.74)
Price: $55,000-$57,000

Thanks a million for your help!
 
I love flour, so I would go with the 3 ct E VS2.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 10:14:27 AM
Author:lvny
Hello, I am new to this forum and your valuable advices are greatly appreciated!! Which one of the following stones is better? Have to admit that I have this vanity thing inside and secretly prefers the 3.04 ct,
2.gif
also research on PS shows 3ct+ stone tends to retain more value and appreciate more. The 3.04 ct stone has been discounted over 10% for the fluro, is it enough? I worry for future update or resale. The med blue does not give any oily look on the 3.04 E/VS2 to naked eye and even makes the diamond whiter.

1. Carat: 2.35
Color: D
Clarity: VS1
Cut: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Depth/Table/Girdle/Pavilion:61.4%,56%,34.5%,40.8%
HCA score: 1.2
Price: $52,000

2. Carat: 3.04
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Cut: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Polish: Excellent
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Depth/Table/Girdle/Pavilion:61.4%,56%,35%,40.6%
HCA score: 0.9
Price: $55,000-$57,000

Thanks a million for your help!
Click to expand...
Both look very promising, do you have any images such as Idealscope or are these for sale from a jeweller? Are both GIA graded? Do you also have the diameter measurements for each please?

Medium blue fluorescence is not an issue and might afford a discount in colourless diamonds, also diamonds are very poor investments so don't consider resale as part of your purchasing decision, you can only hope to get back around 30 - 50% of what was originally paid.
 
Also note that MB fluor might also lessen the resale value further. As stated above, diamonds are not good investment.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 10:40:54 AM
Author: Stone-cold11
Also note that MB fluor might also lessen the resale value further. As stated above, diamonds are not good investment.
Click to expand...

fluoresecence really kills resale and upgrade. i dont mind it and i think its silly but its true. i would do with a D vs1 --the size difference is minimal and the stone is better all the way around
 
Thanks Lorelei and vespergirl. Both stones are GIA certified. I just added measurement to the original post.
They are equally beautiful to me, with clear hearts and arrows.

Lorelei, you seem very experienced with diamonds. It is disappointing to know that diamond resale might end up getting less than 50% of original payment. I got the impression that larger (3ct +) diamond investment is relatively safe from PS main page, which has a graph showing VVS1-SI2 diamond value change through 12/2007 to now. seems like 3ct+ diamonds does retain more value and appreciate more in 2 years(5% for 3ct, 17% for 4ct+, considering this year diamond price hit a bottom the number doesn''t look bad to me). Can you educate me a bit more on that? thanks!

http://www.pricescope.com/diamond-pricing-history-chart.asp

diamond-pricing-history-chart.asp
 
The pricing history chart is showing changes in retail pricing. Diamonds are, and ever will be, a luxury item, not an investment.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 11:02:51 AM
Author: lvny
Thanks Lorelei and vespergirl. Both stones are GIA certified. I just added measurement to the original post.
They are equally beautiful to me, with clear hearts and arrows.

Lorelei, you seem very experienced with diamonds. It is disappointing to know that diamond resale might end up getting less than 50% of original payment. I got the impression that larger (3ct +) diamond investment is relatively safe from PS main page, which has a graph showing VVS1-SI2 diamond value change through 12/2007 to now. seems like 3ct+ diamonds does retain more value and appreciate more in 2 years(5% for 3ct, 17% for 4ct+, considering this year diamond price hit a bottom the number doesn't look bad to me). Can you educate me a bit more on that? thanks!

http://www.pricescope.com/diamond-pricing-history-chart.asp

diamond-pricing-history-chart.asp
Click to expand...


I know it isn't good news concerning possible resale but if you want to buy something hoping that it might appreciate in value over a certain timeframe, I would not suggest a diamond. The rule of thumb is generally to recoup 30 - 50% of what you originally paid thereabouts and this assumes GIA graded diamonds, non lab or less reliable lab graded/ other shape stones can mean even less....So buy with an investment in your happiness uppermost in your mind, not for financial investment purposes.

This is a good thread which explains the pitfalls of trying to resell and will give you more helpful info.


http://journal.pricescope.com/Articles/66/1/A-consumer%e2%80%99s-guide-to-reselling-diamonds.aspx
 
Right, unless your stone is a very rare and/or historical piece I wouldn''t even think about it as an investment. Just buy the one that''s going to give you the most joy. As the others have said, med fluor isn''t going to damage the appearance.
 
Thanks all, your inputs are so helpful!!
 
i personally would avoid the E with Floro. You always see great floro stones that sell for a very steep discount, particularly at the higher color grades. If we were talking I or H with floro, i''d have a different answer because it could on the margin improve the look. I disagree with a prior post in that the difference in size between the two stones is not comparable in my view. the 3ct spread is just bigger and i think its obvious. for that budget, why not try to find an amazing cut F or G 3ct that doesn''t have floro? i seriously doubt you''ll see any difference between that and an E face up or even from the side for that matter once its set.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 12:31:20 PM
Author: rockabee
i personally would avoid the E with Floro. You always see great floro stones that sell for a very steep discount, particularly at the higher color grades. If we were talking I or H with floro, i''d have a different answer because it could on the margin improve the look. I disagree with a prior post in that the difference in size between the two stones is not comparable in my view. the 3ct spread is just bigger and i think its obvious. for that budget, why not try to find an amazing cut F or G 3ct that doesn''t have floro? i seriously doubt you''ll see any difference between that and an E face up or even from the side for that matter once its set.
Click to expand...
Sorry I missed that earlier, yes the size difference will be noticeable between these 2 diamonds.
 
Date: 11/20/2009 12:50:21 PM
Author: Lorelei
Date: 11/20/2009 12:31:20 PM

Author: rockabee

i personally would avoid the E with Floro. You always see great floro stones that sell for a very steep discount, particularly at the higher color grades. If we were talking I or H with floro, i''d have a different answer because it could on the margin improve the look. I disagree with a prior post in that the difference in size between the two stones is not comparable in my view. the 3ct spread is just bigger and i think its obvious. for that budget, why not try to find an amazing cut F or G 3ct that doesn''t have floro? i seriously doubt you''ll see any difference between that and an E face up or even from the side for that matter once its set.
Click to expand...

Sorry I missed that earlier, yes the size difference will be noticeable between these 2 diamonds.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rockabee. But for a budget of %55000, it is still hard to find a good 3ct+ 3ex F color stone. either HCA score is too high or has intense blue flour or some inclusions are too big. The least expensive one that satisfying all my criteria cost $60,000. Maybe somebody here can help me find more diamonds? G color stone is yellowish to my sensitive eye unfortunately. I missed a 2.58 D/VS1 which asked for $55k. that would be my best buy I guess.
8.gif
and yes the size difference between 2.35 ct and 3.04 is very obvious...struggling... The 3.04 E/VS2 is very beautiful, clean & white with the lowest HCA score I''ve seen in the past 3 months. but med blue won''t give me mind peace, in fear of deeper discount towards such kind of diamonds in the future.
 
when i said not much difference in size i meant big picture--yes there is a difference but i would prefer a D color vs1 perfect cut to a larger less perfect stone
 
Date: 11/20/2009 1:55:38 PM
Author: lvny


Thanks Rockabee. But for a budget of %55000, it is still hard to find a good 3ct+ 3ex F color stone. either HCA score is too high or has intense blue flour or some inclusions are too big. The least expensive one that satisfying all my criteria cost $60,000. Maybe somebody here can help me find more diamonds? G color stone is yellowish to my sensitive eye unfortunately. I missed a 2.58 D/VS1 which asked for $55k. that would be my best buy I guess.
8.gif
and yes the size difference between 2.35 ct and 3.04 is very obvious...struggling... The 3.04 E/VS2 is very beautiful, clean & white with the lowest HCA score I''ve seen in the past 3 months. but med blue won''t give me mind peace, in fear of deeper discount towards such kind of diamonds in the future.
Click to expand...
were you viewing these stones face up or down, mounted or unmounted? were these GIA/AGS rated stones or just stones with tags on them at a retail store? i''ve seen a number of stones around this color grade and i''m relatively color sensitive but I would not characterize G as yellowish. I know everyone is different and maybe you are very color sensitive, but have you seen a number of ideal cut stones of the sizes you are looking at in E-G? HCA is really a rejection based screening tool. So to me, a 0.9 is no different from a 1.4. In fact, I''ve seen a number of HCA scores in the 0.5-0.6 level and the stones tend to be shallow.

if you don''t mind me asking, where are you located? if its in ny, there are a number of good pricescope vendors located there and even more where you can sit down for diamond viewings.
 
Does you vendor has an upgrade/buyback policy?
 
Date: 11/20/2009 4:37:57 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
How about the 3.18c F VS2 stone that can be found on PS database?

http://www.uniondiamond.com/diamonds/diamonds.php?item_id=AB486704&search_type_id=2&action_type_id=2&network_id=0cf05810a0f83094f6e9972ef21cdd34
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Hi Stone-Cold11, the diamond you recommend is no longer available. Any other stones you have in mind?
also, the dealer I am working with is a shop I found through pricescope but they don''t offer buy back policy unfortunately.thanks for your help!
 
Date: 11/20/2009 4:04:00 PM
Author: rockabee
Date: 11/20/2009 1:55:38 PM

Author: lvny



Thanks Rockabee. But for a budget of %55000, it is still hard to find a good 3ct+ 3ex F color stone. either HCA score is too high or has intense blue flour or some inclusions are too big. The least expensive one that satisfying all my criteria cost $60,000. Maybe somebody here can help me find more diamonds? G color stone is yellowish to my sensitive eye unfortunately. I missed a 2.58 D/VS1 which asked for $55k. that would be my best buy I guess.
8.gif
and yes the size difference between 2.35 ct and 3.04 is very obvious...struggling... The 3.04 E/VS2 is very beautiful, clean & white with the lowest HCA score I''ve seen in the past 3 months. but med blue won''t give me mind peace, in fear of deeper discount towards such kind of diamonds in the future.
Click to expand...

were you viewing these stones face up or down, mounted or unmounted? were these GIA/AGS rated stones or just stones with tags on them at a retail store? i''ve seen a number of stones around this color grade and i''m relatively color sensitive but I would not characterize G as yellowish. I know everyone is different and maybe you are very color sensitive, but have you seen a number of ideal cut stones of the sizes you are looking at in E-G? HCA is really a rejection based screening tool. So to me, a 0.9 is no different from a 1.4. In fact, I''ve seen a number of HCA scores in the 0.5-0.6 level and the stones tend to be shallow.


if you don''t mind me asking, where are you located? if its in ny, there are a number of good pricescope vendors located there and even more where you can sit down for diamond viewings.
Click to expand...

Hi Rockabee, I viewed both diamonds from all angles as they are unmounted. Both have original GIA certs side by side with them. Yes, I live in New York. The shop that showed me the diamonds is actually a dealer found through pricescope database, not a retail store. My eyes are very sensitive. I can easily distinguish a D and F by just looking from the side. But it is hard for me to feel the difference between D and E. Definitely agree with your point on the HCA score. I only use it to reject stones that have scores over 2.
 
If you are sure you aren't going to want to keep the stone you ought to find a vendor with an upgrade policy. Or do you want to eventually just sell it?

But between the 2 I'd take the larger stone. I love fluorescence but it's not even visible in most lighting situations.
 
Date: 11/24/2009 2:09:44 PM
Author: swingirl
If you are sure you aren''t going to want to keep the stone you ought to find a vendor with an upgrade policy. Or do you want to eventually just sell it?


But between the 2 I''d take the larger stone. I love fluorescence but it''s not even visible in most lighting situations.
Click to expand...

Thanks Swingirl. I have no intention of selling the stone eventually. Most likely it will go to my children
26.gif

ALso it seems like retail stores that can offer you good upgrade policy often can''t beat the internet dealer''s price. The dealer just phoned me saying raw stone price was up by 8% this past weekend, so if the 3.04 now is $57,888 and 2.35ct is close to $53,000. not sure if it is a selling strategy or a truth. can anybody confirm?
 
Why? Most people without training and equipment will not be able to notice the difference between Ex and Vg grade.
 
Update!! Thanks for all the advices from PS, I made my decision to go for the 3.04 E/VS2.

now the next dilemma: setting. Have to trade off between safety and beauty because of the stone size. I am thinking of a classical 6-prong tiffany setting (made by Vatche) and a Leon Mege Setting. which one is safer? or any suggestions of other simple and classic design to accommodate the stone?

btw, I heard plantinum setting is not as secure as white gold and gets scratches easily. Is that true?
 
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