(Help) 1.20ct E FL ASET Ideal-scope Image

[hifihua428]

I have been learning about diamonds for just over one month, and it is now the time for me to pick on one for the engagement. I have picked on FL for symbolic reason. The supplier of my jewelers has just sent me the ASET Ideal-scope images, however, I am not confident in making the final decision base on my limited knowledge. Hoping that someone is able to give me some advice and suggestions base on the diamond info. At my local places, we havent got many choices. Unlike USA or Canada etc. Is this diamond going to be provide ideal sparkle???

Here is the diamond info:
(Round Brilliant) E Internally Flawless 3EX
Additional comments on the GIA cert: Surface graining not shown, minor details of polish are not shown.
Measurements: 6.82-6.85 x 4.20mm
Table: 56%
Crown angle: 35%
Pavillion angle: 40.6%
Depth: 61.4%
Medium faceted 3.5%
HCA Score: 0.9

360Degree Video:
http://hdfiles.in/hd.aspx?stoneid=4822260104&sid=502711&rid=941365&p=t0067&b=none&a=7&avid=17&acid=0

Here is what I am concerned base on my limited knowledge:
1- The hearts is slightly split at the heart grove, and has two tone colour on the 2 hearts at 12 o'clock. The V is not very concentrated (has shaddow near the heart). This is on the H&A image.
2- ASET image has white triangles around the edges of the image.
3- ASET image has pale and purpleish colour at the table area (instead of red-orange)
4- Lastly, is surface graining on the comments section something that I should be concerned with? I have seen cases where surface graining causes haziness and reduced transparency. (I cannot see the diamond physically as diamond is with international supplier.)

Would like to hear what your opinion is. Thank you for your help!!!

 

[gm89uk]

I have been learning about diamonds for just over one month, and it is now the time for me to pick on one for the engagement. I have picked on FL for symbolic reason. The supplier of my jewelers has just sent me the ASET Ideal-scope images, however, I am not confident in making the final decision base on my limited knowledge. Hoping that someone is able to give me some advice and suggestions base on the diamond info. At my local places, we havent got many choices. Unlike USA or Canada etc. Is this diamond going to be provide ideal sparkle???

Here is the diamond info:
(Round Brilliant) E Internally Flawless 3EX
Additional comments on the GIA cert: Surface graining not shown, minor details of polish are not shown.
Measurements: 6.82-6.85 x 4.20mm
Table: 56%
Crown angle: 35%
Pavillion angle: 40.6%
Depth: 61.4%
Medium faceted 3.5%
HCA Score: 0.9

360Degree Video:
http://hdfiles.in/hd.aspx?stoneid=4822260104&sid=502711&rid=941365&p=t0067&b=none&a=7&avid=17&acid=0

Here is what I am concerned base on my limited knowledge:
1- The hearts is slightly split at the heart grove, and has two tone colour on the 2 hearts at 12 o'clock. The V is not very concentrated (has shaddow near the heart). This is on the H&A image.
It's very almost a true H&A and some may state it's not a true H&A because of some of the clefts in the hearts. Honestly, it's very close, and an incredibly well cut diamond. The visual difference of what you're noticing is negligible. The 'shadow' of the V's is just blurring because of camera focusing issue.

2- ASET image has white triangles around the edges of the image.
Those are normal contrast points in a diamond. They're supposed to be there.
3- ASET image has pale and purpleish colour at the table area (instead of red-orange)
That's fine.
4- Lastly, is surface graining on the comments section something that I should be concerned with? I have seen cases where surface graining causes haziness and reduced transparency. (I cannot see the diamond physically as diamond is with international supplier.)
No issues.
Would like to hear what your opinion is. Thank you for your help!!!

Beautiful diamond. Remember IF is only flawless at x10, with stronger magnification it will have imperfections. How much is the diamond and would your SO appreciate the symbolism or would she rather have an G or H, eye clean VS2 that is considerably larger for the same price?

 

[hifihua428]

So you reckon the Surface graining not shown does not affect the diamond quality? I have seen photo of surface graining, some are on the crown and some can cause milky diamond.

This is the case where goodoldgold finds that everything is perfect but the graining affected the trasparancy.

 

[Snowdrop13]

The diamonds in the video are SI1 clarity, I'd be surprised if this were an issue with a stone graded as IF.

 

[hifihua428]

The diamonds in the video are SI1 clarity, I'd be surprised if this were an issue with a stone graded as IF.

Is there any way to confirm that it has no effect on the transparency prior to purchasing. The stone is with supplier so I cannot examine it physically by myself.

 

[Rivendell]

The diamond is graded FL by GIA if there was an issue it would not have that grading

 

[hifihua428]

The diamond is graded FL by GIA if there was an issue it would not have that grading

Do you guys think it may have girdle painting issue as the girdle triangle on the ASET image are slightly longer than usual?? If there is painting how would it affect the quality of diamond?

 

[Ishaan_SarvadaJewels]

Hi

Firstly, you mentioned that you have picked FL but the diamond details you have shared mention the diamond is IF. FL - Flawless means there are no inclusions inside the diamond (at 10x) and no blemishes etc on the surface either. IF - Internally Flawless means that there is nothing inside the diamond but there would be surface blemishes/scratches/graining etc.

The HCA score is great but as you rightly said, the heart & arrow pattern is not excellent. The ASET image is quite bad, lot of light leakages (white spots), centre table area as well. http://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-4cs/cut/aset-images-evaluation/

Overall, I think if you are investing in a high quality diamond, you would want to get everything right. Cutting does seem to be a concern for this diamond, even though I don't really recommend relying on Idealscope/ASET scope images to make your decision.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Is there any way to confirm that it has no effect on the transparency prior to purchasing. The stone is with supplier so I cannot examine it physically by myself.

gm89uk has answered all your questions above- just click "expand" where s/he has quoted your post!

Can you ask the supplier to examine the stone and give an opinion? They are potentially selling you an expensive stone- make them work for it! Another option would be to ship to a 3rd party appraiser with an agreement to return the stone if it doesn't perform as expected.

 

[hifihua428]

I have read gm89uk's comments, and comparing it to Ishaan's comment. This diamond seems to get a bit of mixed opinion. gm89uk's comments seems to indicate the issues I am concerned with is negligible (including the Pale pink/whitish colour on the ASET), whereas Ishaan says there is bad leakage, white spots and on the table area as well.

I have enquired the supplier regarding this, they simply reply "these are no issues", no further explanation. I think its not a good idea to decide base on the supplier's words as they are in the conflict of interests (Being the seller).

Anyone has second opinion to help me make the decision? As its hard for me to get in the stone in without making a large sum of deposit, as the diamond is located overseas.

How much of light performance am I expected to be affected by these issues? (assuming ACA ideal diamond has 99% of light performance).

Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[Rivendell]

I'm not an expert but lots of people here are very knowledgeable - I'm sure you'll get more replies which will help you.

 

[hifihua428]

I'm not an expert but lots of people here are very knowledgeable - I'm sure you'll get more replies which will help you.

Thank you Rivendell~ I am so glad so many people replied to my post, its nerve breaking being first-time buyer.

 

[gm89uk]

The ASET image is quite bad, lot of light leakages (white spots), centre table area as well. http://yourdiamondteacher.com/diamond-4cs/cut/aset-images-evaluation/

Overall, I think if you are investing in a high quality diamond, you would want to get everything right. Cutting does seem to be a concern for this diamond, even though I don't really recommend relying on Idealscope/ASET scope images to make your decision.

I have to respectively disagree with the statement that this is a bad ASET. It's not the best quality image but there is no frank leakage in that diamond. The white around the edge are contrast points. The faded areas under the table are a side effect of a back lit ASET. This image cannot be compared to an ASET from WF directly for example the have a black background to their ASET images. White backlit ASETs are much harsher on apparent light return. You can tell it's backlit from the white contrast points.

The centre of the table is green and this is not leakage. It is explained in the article linked above. The idealscope has lots of saturated red. This will be one of the brightest diamonds money can buy and I stand by my comments regarding it's excellent light performance.

Is it slightly painted? Perhaps slightly, maybe someone else can comment on this, regardless, it appears to be crown only minorly. Sometimes stones are purposefully crown only painted to increase brightness (at the sacrifice of contrast).

 

[flyingpig]

To me, the diamond looks beautiful. I would be happy with those light performance images although the aset/is appear computer generated.

 

[hifihua428]

I have to respectively disagree with the statement that this is a bad ASET. It's not the best quality image but there is no frank leakage in that diamond. The white around the edge are contrast points. The faded areas under the table are a side effect of a back lit ASET. This image cannot be compared to an ASET from WF directly for example the have a black background to their ASET images. White backlit ASETs are much harsher on apparent light return. You can tell it's backlit from the white contrast points.

The centre of the table is green and this is not leakage. It is explained in the article linked above. The idealscope has lots of saturated red. This will be one of the brightest diamonds money can buy and I stand by my comments regarding it's excellent light performance.

Is it slightly painted? Perhaps slightly, maybe someone else can comment on this, regardless, it appears to be crown only minorly. Sometimes stones are purposefully crown only painted to increase brightness (at the sacrifice of contrast).

Thank you for your reconfirmation! The ASET image does look different to what is typically seem on ideal cut diamonds, hence I am a bit worried.

 

[hifihua428]

To me, the diamond looks beautiful. I would be happy with those light performance images although the aset/is appear computer generated.

How can you tell if its a computer generated? If this is the case, then these images tells me nothing other than the proportion are in the right range?

 

[flyingpig]

How can you tell if its a computer generated? If this is the case, then these images tells me nothing other than the proportion are in the right range?

Overall, a rendered ASET has a pastel color tone. Also, your ASET/IS has a culet that should not be there (Notice the tiny white patch in the dead centre??)
There is noticeable difference between a diamond reflecting real light (real ASET) and a rendered image, just like there is difference between photo and painting.

From what I know, there are two types of rendered ASET. One is based on numbers only, assuming perfect symmetry.
http://i.imgur.com/uV9stqH.jpg
The other is based on Sarine scan.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not

It appears your ASET/IS is based on Sarin Scan. So, it is not useless. In fact, a well scanned and rendered ASET can be very accurate

 

[hifihua428]

Overall, a rendered ASET has a pastel color tone. Also, your ASET/IS has a culet that should not be there (Notice the tiny white patch in the dead centre??)
There is noticeable difference between a diamond reflecting real light (real ASET) and a rendered image, just like there is difference between photo and painting.

From what I know, there are two types of rendered ASET. One is based on numbers only, assuming perfect symmetry.
http://i.imgur.com/uV9stqH.jpg
The other is based on Sarine scan.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not

It appears your ASET/IS is based on Sarin Scan. So, it is not useless. In fact, a well scanned and rendered ASET can be very accurate

Hi, Thank you for helping out in explaining the difference. Its really helpful!
I also noticed the tidy white spot in the middle, is that light leakage due to additional cutlet facet? According to the GIA report, it should be "non-cutlet". hmmmm... Do you reckon it has any effect on the diamond performance?

 

[flyingpig]

Hi, Thank you for helping out in explaining the difference. Its really helpful!
I also noticed the tidy white spot in the middle, is that light leakage due to additional cutlet facet? According to the GIA report, it should be "non-cutlet". hmmmm... Do you reckon it has any effect on the diamond performance?

No, the diamond does not have a culet. You should not worry. It is not there in the report, magnified photo and the arrows image. I reckon it has to do with scanning process. I guess the scanner and rendering software can't really process a pointed tip, but I am not an expert in this subject. What I do know is that the ASET is computer generated.

 

[Karl_K]

Someone who has looked at a lot of images can tell the computer generated ones at a glance. They were made in diamcalc likely based on a scan of the diamond. The images are fine for what they are. Interpretation of diamcalc images are slightly different than real images due to how diamcalc colors them. Some of the details will vary between real images and diamcalc created images from a scan based on scanner resolution and error. The problem comes in that you cant tell how much they will vary from real images.

 

[hifihua428]

Someone who has looked at a lot of images can tell the computer generated ones at a glance. They were made in diamcalc likely based on a scan of the diamond. The images are fine for what they are. Interpretation of diamcalc images are slightly different than real images due to how diamcalc colors them. Some of the details will vary between real images and diamcalc created images from a scan based on scanner resolution and error. The problem comes in that you cant tell how much they will vary from real images.

Do you reckon if the surface graining is on the pavilion facet, it will be total no issue?

 

[Karl_K]

Do you reckon if the surface graining is on the pavilion facet, it will be total no issue?

more than likely it will not be an issue if its on the pavilion.

 

[hifihua428]

I have gotten more photos as the original photo seems to be screenshot from spinning video. Does it look any different? Anything I should be cautious about?

Does it look hazy at all? (Worried about the surface graining) or is it just the photograph background?

The supplier comfirmed ASET and idealscope image are computer generated, and they cant take with actual scoprs as they dont have the scopes handy in the office.

Is 17000 a fair price for it?

 

[EvaEvans]

1.20, E, IF, GIA excellent cut, from GOG for $14405:
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...-GIA-E-IF-diamond-stock-26085-cert-6202755071
1.20, D, IF, GIA excellent cut, from GOG for $16991:
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...IA-D-IF-diamond-stock-R17-798-cert-6245572387

 

[hifihua428]

1.20, E, IF, GIA excellent cut, from GOG for $14405:
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...-GIA-E-IF-diamond-stock-26085-cert-6202755071
1.20, D, IF, GIA excellent cut, from GOG for $16991:
https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond...IA-D-IF-diamond-stock-R17-798-cert-6245572387

Hi EvaEvans,

Those two you have suggested have very poor proportions, so I don't think its a good comparison.

 

[flyingpig]

I found your stone at Jame Allen.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-e-color-if-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-2646500
It looks beautiful. Not sure if your vendor is over-charging. It depends on the local tax rate and import tariff.

 

[hifihua428]

Just an update for everyone who helped me and also something for people considering high charity diamond with concerns over surface graining! I went ahead with the purchase, it looked stunning in person and surface graining on this internal flawless diamond was no issue at all. JA advised me that this diamond fit in their "True Hearts" diamond criteria, but they just don't brand diamonds that are located oversea as "True Hearts" (virtual inventories) I am not sure if this is true, but someone maybe able to comment on this.

My SO was very happy with the diamond, and we set it in classic halo with D-E VS1 melees.
Thank you guys. Definitely learned a lot here.

I used my amateur blue reflector (almost like a ideal scope) and phone to take these photos.

Trying to learn how to take photos with arrow contrasts now, it seems very difficult. Last 2 images are provided by JA and cutting centre.

 

[Rhino]

The diamonds in the video are SI1 clarity, I'd be surprised if this were an issue with a stone graded as IF.

Actually graining issues are not related to clarity and can exist in any/all clarities. The cutting looks just fine including the ASET.

 

[flyingpig]

JA advised me that this diamond fit in their "True Hearts" diamond criteria, but they just don't brand diamonds that are located oversea as "True Hearts" (virtual inventories) I am not sure if this is true, but someone maybe able to comment on this.

I think what JA said is true. It is a beautiful diamond as I stated. I just adore the overall appearance.
No they cannot sell it as True Hearts because they never inspected the diamond until YOU purchased and YOU brought it to their office.

Nice find.

 

[hifihua428]

Actually graining issues are not related to clarity and can exist in any/all clarities. The cutting looks just fine including the ASET.

Hi Rhino,

How would you assess whether the diamond is affected by surface graining (i.e. milky or hazziness) without cross-polarizing filter, especially for people who aren't trained in differentiating milky or hazzy diamond.

Thank you for those educational videos !!