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H vs. I for 2 ct RB, which would you pick?

po720

Rough_Rock
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Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
Hello all! Long time reader and so excited to finally have a reason to join and post :)

I am upgrading my 1.36 H Si2 (GIA) to a 2+ ct. and have been torn between the following options, hoping some of the experts and more informed could help:

2.01 ct. 8.28 x 8.31 x 4.86 $16,600 (Hsi1) 1.3 HCA (they said the vendor confirmed it is eye clean with white inclusion in table). Table: 60%, Depth: 58.6%, Crown: 33% , Pavilion: 40.8%

2.07 ct. 8.30 x 8.33 x 4.97 $15,600 (Isi1) 0.9 HCA (they said the vendor confirmed it is eye clean, not milky). Table: 57% Depth: 59.7%, Crown: 33.5% Pavilion: 41%

They are all on Blue Nile as I'm taking advantage of their upgrade program but I have an independent jeweler that is a family friend also looking into the value of the 1.36. In the event that he can get a comparable price to the BN trade in value ~7700, then I would be free to get the new stone anywhere.

I really appreciate any insight or advice. Thank you guys so much in advance.

_38006.jpg

_1318.png
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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55,630
You can do better than either of those.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

These are the only measurements I would consider with BN since they don't provide ASET or idealscope images to check light return and leakage.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Aug 18, 2013
Messages
6,878
diamondseeker2006|1470666167|4063521 said:
You can do better than either of those.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

These are the only measurements I would consider with BN since they don't provide ASET or idealscope images to check light return and leakage.
I agree with this. I'm a prolific, long time buyer from BN and I keep my specs even tighter than the ones Diamondseeker posted. I find getting recommendations from BN, and their ability to communicate with the jeweler holding the stone invaluable, and I check EVERY stone I buy through them this way, as well as asking for a photo, which they will normally get you on stones over 1ct in size. However - I also keep my stats pretty tight as this keeps me out of harm when buying sight-unseen:

table: 55-57

depth: 60.3-61.9

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle) (I agree on this tho I DEFINITELY prefer between 34 and 35)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34) (ditto this)

Use the HCA under the 'tools' link in the top right-hand corner of this page and always make sure your HCA on any stone is below 2. How far below 2 makes no difference - but below 2 is a must.

If you really look, you can generally find stones with what I consider ideal stats in any size - 55-57 table, 61.2-61.7 depth, crown angle 34.5 and pavilion angle 40.8. These stats will ALWAYS give you an HCA below 2 and pretty much guarantee you a beautiful stone, unless fluorescence or clarity mess things up. Ergo, with stones I buy online sight-unseen, I always steer away from fluorescence; it can be very pretty, but it can also make a stone look milky, and I don't want to find that out *after* I've bought it.

So - that being said - I agree that you can find a better stone. Keep looking - they're out there! Alternately, contact ID Jewelry in NYC and see if they can help you. They might take your stone as a trade. Speak to Yekutiel who owns the store and tell him Pricescope sent you. IDJ is a very popular PS-recommended store and he'll work out what you're looking for. I'm not sure if they take stones as a trade in; I know they've done it in the past, but I'm assuming it's on a case-by-case basis.

Good luck!
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
diamondseeker2006|1470666167|4063521 said:
You can do better than either of those.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

These are the only measurements I would consider with BN since they don't provide ASET or idealscope images to check light return and leakage.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I had noted these guidelines after seeing them come up so often on the boards and knew I was stretching it for the 2.01 H but wasn't sure if it was worth compromising when the HCA was under 2 and color was better. I thought I was very close with the 2.07 that is .03% away from ideal depth and .05 degree away from the perfect crown and low HCA, but I get now that close is not as good as right on the money :) I appreciate your feedback!
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
Thank you so much Mrs. Blop!! Gosh I am so so so glad I didn't pull the trigger on anything before posting. I had both stones on hold with BN for the weekend and was agonizing over which to choose...

It is so comforting to know I have hope on BN since I absolutely have to trade in the old stone to even dream of getting a new one. I was going to see if the family friend got back to me today with any good news on the potential sales-worthiness of the 1.36 but I'm sure it wouldn't do any harm to reach out to yekutiel at ID as well, since I am close by.

Off to scour BN some more and wait in anticipation :doh:
 

po720

Rough_Rock
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Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
checking on the following specs for eye cleanliness, photos and ASET/ideal scope if available:

2.12 ct. 8.19 x 8.17 x 5.10 $17,818 (Hvs2) 1.3 HCA
56, 62.3, 35.5, 40.6

2.05 ct. 8.14 x 8.16 x 5.04 $17,030 (Hsi1) 0.8 HCA
55, 61.8, 34.5, 40.6

they measure a little smaller than the original stones and are about 2k more expensive but my main goal was to do the best I could for the upgrade :pray:

these are more promising, i hope?
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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3,696
The 2.12 stone you just posted is a very nice option (LD06988999).

I think it's also worth considering the following:
LD07202480
LD06700029 - this is a signature ideal stone that already has an image posted; stone should be in house so you might be able to get an ASET/IS for it

ETA: This is also a nice option and has the ASET image on a different site: LD07084021
(https://enchanteddiamonds.com/#diamond=R202-80Z793741)
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
ac117|1470677616|4063571 said:
The 2.12 stone you just posted is a very nice option (LD06988999).

I think it's also worth considering the following:
LD07202480
LD06700029 - this is a signature ideal stone that already has an image posted; stone should be in house so you might be able to get an ASET/IS for it

ETA: This is also a nice option and has the ASET image on a different site: LD07084021
(https://enchanteddiamonds.com/#diamond=R202-80Z793741)
I would have never thought to expand the parameters to the signature ideal and vs1, I just assumed they would price me out :wall: Emailing them for eye-cleanliness and photo availability right now, thank you!!!
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
ac117|1470677616|4063571 said:
I think it's also worth considering the following:
LD07202480
They confirmed it's not eye clean :( Waiting on pictures of the rest! thank you again!
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3,696
po720|1470681774|4063588 said:
ac117|1470677616|4063571 said:
I think it's also worth considering the following:
LD07202480
They confirmed it's not eye clean :( Waiting on pictures of the rest! thank you again!
Ahh too bad but good thing you verified! One of the other 3 should be great, though!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
55,630
po720|1470672825|4063546 said:
checking on the following specs for eye cleanliness, photos and ASET/ideal scope if available:

2.12 ct. 8.19 x 8.17 x 5.10 $17,818 (Hvs2) 1.3 HCA
56, 62.3, 35.5, 40.6

2.05 ct. 8.14 x 8.16 x 5.04 $17,030 (Hsi1) 0.8 HCA
55, 61.8, 34.5, 40.6

they measure a little smaller than the original stones and are about 2k more expensive but my main goal was to do the best I could for the upgrade :pray:

these are more promising, i hope?
Yes, these are better and within the best parameters (the second one especially, but both could be fine). It will help to see the pics in order to narrow them down further. MrsBlop has been successful by being very strict with her parameters and it generally will pay off. I am glad you posted before buying!
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
So - that being said - I agree that you can find a better stone. Keep looking - they're out there! Alternately, contact ID Jewelry in NYC and see if they can help you. They might take your stone as a trade. Speak to Yekutiel who owns the store and tell him Pricescope sent you. IDJ is a very popular PS-recommended store and he'll work out what you're looking for. I'm not sure if they take stones as a trade in; I know they've done it in the past, but I'm assuming it's on a case-by-case basis.
I spoke with Julie at ID and gave her all the details for yekutiel (he was with a client when I called) so I am looking forward to hearing back.

I feel like I just walked away from a car crash without a scratch...seriously can't explain the physical response that is taking place after realizing I could have gotten really screwed..thank you guys so much!!
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2016
Messages
73
In terms of color, does anyone think the I color at this size will be noticeably different from the H color? It seems to be the factor that allows me to go bigger without spending thousands more than I was planning to but if it is not worth giving up the colorlessness, I can stay on the smaller end..
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Do you live in the US? If you're not sure, ask IDJ to send the diamond to look at prior to setting.
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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po720|1470756250|4063878 said:
In terms of color, does anyone think the I color at this size will be noticeably different from the H color? It seems to be the factor that allows me to go bigger without spending thousands more than I was planning to but if it is not worth giving up the colorlessness, I can stay on the smaller end..
Speak to Yekutiel about this. I have an I color diamond and it faces up very white. However, I am not very color sensitive. He can explain this to you over the phone after evaluating a stone he has looked at for you. And, you can always have the stone sent to you so that you can take a look at it before committing. Good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for. You are in good hands with Mrs-Blop and others who are helping you. :wavey:
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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Hi po :)

This - the one you posted earlier:

2.05 ct. 8.14 x 8.16 x 5.04 $17,030 (Hsi1) 0.8 HCA
55, 61.8, 34.5, 40.6

I love these stats - and I LOVE a smaller table. I'd be throwing myself at this one pronto! This stone is very similar to the stone in my profile (which I no longer have, but which I don't know how to change!!) Mine was a 2.15 H SI1. I'll see if I can find a photo of it and will attach it here. I now have an I VS2 3.61ct from BN. I LOVE it and I'm never going to change it. It was a regular ideal cut (as opposed to a BN signature cut) and it performs like nobody's business! I'll see if I can get a photo of it, also.

Ok - got it. Here's the 2.15 H SI1:



ETA As you can see from this photo, a 2.15 is not a small stone - and mine was only .1mm larger than the 2.05 you linked to - so probably not even a visible difference. You would see a big difference from your current stone.

h_2.jpg
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
6,878
Here's the stone I now have - the I VS2. In profile against a stark white background I can see a tiny little bit of tint, and if you place it next to a D or an E, you'll see a difference. However, on the finger, even in profile, I can't see any tint, and from face down it's *very* white.

Personally, I'd go with that H SI1; check to see if it's eye clean, but if it is - I'd be going for that!

Good luck!

img_12448.jpg

img_12449.jpg
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
73
Queenie, thank you so much!! I am looking forward to hearing back from him (still no call back but I know they can be tied up..) I am in NY so I can even stop by but I have a toddler so I'm a bit hesitant to just drop in without discussing and making an appt, etc.

MrsBlop, they are both absolutely gorgeous!!! I have taken a few of the "tests" to see if I could tell the difference between the color grades and master them every time, but seeing them face up on your rings I would not be able to tell between the H and I... not to mention the upgrade in size, I would take that any day of the week and twice on Sunday!! :love:

I don't know how much bigger I would have to go from the 2.05 to notice the difference in size? I've heard 2.3 is the next threshold where you definitely notice? I don't think I could find an ideal cut, eye clean SI1 that big for under 20k - is that a right estimation?

I am still waiting to hear back about 2.05 from BN since it is showing up as unavailable right now. I hope that is my reservation and someone else did not scoop it up :doh: I am really excited to possibly have found a good one after almost falling for those duds :)!
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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At under $20k, you could also ask about these, which get you more size:

LD07099611
LD07106724
LD06981640
LD07245094
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
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Po -

I think it would also be worth asking about *this* one:

LD04065319

It's an SI2, but I've seen some awesome SI2's in my time and briefly owned from from BN which was definitely eye clean, despite being a large stone (around 2 ct).

The first stone ac posted above (2.4ct) looks particularly good to me, so I'd call about that one if I was looking for the next size up. I colored stones can be borderline for tint, though, so I'd definitely ask for a second opinion re color.

And if you REALLY want size...I'd ask about this one:

LD07380366

This is another SI2, but you may will feel that any visible inclusions are worth it at almost 9mm. And they may not be visible at all - so definitely worth asking about this one. Personally, I think I would rather go to an H SI2 than an I SI1 - even though I own an I. I can see the difference between an H and an I, and slightly visible inclusions bother me a lot less than color; I would have bought an H and paid the extra money had one been available, but the stones in the range 10k above mine were either smaller than mine or no whiter. SO I didn't have that option.

Anyway, I'd either be looking at that H SI1 2.05, the I SI1 2.4 ac117 posted, or the H SI2s I posted above. Although...if you see a great I, you can always set it in a halo - that would disguise the profile tint and your ring would then be HUGE!!

Do any of these look tempting to you? And - DEFINITELY follow up with BN. I wouldn't be waiting for them to get back to you; the stones on that site move FAST!
 

po720

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Messages
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OMG I :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: that 2.64!!!! Thank you both, ac and mrsblop, so much for finding these spectacular choices!!! I'm going to call to ask about the HSi2 2.64, the ISi1 2.4 and H Si2 2.3 (which appears to measure as big as the 2.4!) I asked my family friend the jeweler about the 2.4 and he sent me the following picture and said it had a natural indent, but I don't know if this is just blown up very big or would compromise the eye-cleanliness?

Have you guys heard anything about Blue Nile having their stuff certified in India and being graded more leniently? He said if it was on Blue Nile it is probably lower quality than they claim bc they grade everything in GIA India.. My HSi2 is bright bright white and totally eye clean so I'm not sure how lenient they could have been with that grade :think:

_1322.png
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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po720|1470785483|4064052 said:
OMG I :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: that 2.64!!!! Thank you both, ac and mrsblop, so much for finding these spectacular choices!!! I'm going to call to ask about the HSi2 2.64, the ISi1 2.4 and H Si2 2.3 (which appears to measure as big as the 2.4!) I asked my family friend the jeweler about the 2.4 and he sent me the following picture and said it had a natural indent, but I don't know if this is just blown up very big or would compromise the eye-cleanliness?

Have you guys heard anything about Blue Nile having their stuff certified in India and being graded more leniently? He said if it was on Blue Nile it is probably lower quality than they claim bc they grade everything in GIA India.. My HSi2 is bright bright white and totally eye clean so I'm not sure how lenient they could have been with that grade :think:
Of you want to know if the 2.4 is eye clean, ask BN. They'll get the person holding the stone to check it out for you.

Re the 'grading in India' thing, that can't possibly be true. The whole thing about BN is that they're a broker for the people actually holding the stones and those stones are graded in the countries where they're held. There's nothing centralized about their stones until you get to the Signature cut level - at which point those are graded in the US.
 

po720

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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mrs-blop|1470789777|4064077 said:
po720|1470785483|4064052 said:
OMG I :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: that 2.64!!!! Thank you both, ac and mrsblop, so much for finding these spectacular choices!!! I'm going to call to ask about the HSi2 2.64, the ISi1 2.4 and H Si2 2.3 (which appears to measure as big as the 2.4!) I asked my family friend the jeweler about the 2.4 and he sent me the following picture and said it had a natural indent, but I don't know if this is just blown up very big or would compromise the eye-cleanliness?

Have you guys heard anything about Blue Nile having their stuff certified in India and being graded more leniently? He said if it was on Blue Nile it is probably lower quality than they claim bc they grade everything in GIA India.. My HSi2 is bright bright white and totally eye clean so I'm not sure how lenient they could have been with that grade :think:
Of you want to know if the 2.4 is eye clean, ask BN. They'll get the person holding the stone to check it out for you.

Re the 'grading in India' thing, that can't possibly be true. The whole thing about BN is that they're a broker for the people actually holding the stones and those stones are graded in the countries where they're held. There's nothing centralized about their stones until you get to the Signature cut level - at which point those are graded in the US.
I thought that sounded a little odd, especially considering they post 250k stones that are accessible to everyone on MLS..thank you MrsBlop!
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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You're welcome, po! :)

And pls post when you hear back from BN; I'd be sitting on their hammer if I were you!

Very excited for you about your new project. :)
 

po720

Rough_Rock
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Messages
73
mrs-blop|1470795754|4064127 said:
You're welcome, po! :)

And pls post when you hear back from BN; I'd be sitting on their hammer if I were you!

Very excited for you about your new project. :)
Just got off the phone with them! The 2.05 was reserved for me :dance: it was confirmed as eye clean so we are just waiting for pictures to make sure it's "the one" and while I am waiting, I asked them to put the "big boys" (the 2.64 hsi2, 2.4 isi1 and 2.3 h si2) on reserve as well until we hear back from vendors if any of them are eye clean :drool: :appl:

This has been the most nerve wracking and anxious past week but I am just so so happy I came on here and got so much wonderful advice and direction! Mrsblop and ac thank you so much for the suggestions, I am so excited to be this close to finding something FANTASTIC :dance: :dance: :dance:
 

po720

Rough_Rock
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Here is the full picture of the 2.4 Isi1 from BN, should know in a day or so if the larger ones are eye clean:

_1323.png
 

po720

Rough_Rock
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to give some context, this is the setting that will be filled with the gorgeous new stone (and accompanying band):

screen_shot_2016-08-09_at_10.png

screen_shot_2016-08-09_at_0.png

screen_shot_2016-08-09_at_1.png

screen_shot_2016-08-09_at_2.png
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
6,878
Hi Po :)

Re the new setting - what are the specs on it? And is it coming from a jeweler/manufacturer who can do tiny little prongs for you? As I recall, Amavida is a line within the Gabriel and Co jewelry collection, so their diamond quality is generally pretty nice. But there's a whole heap going on in that ring, so I'd definitely want to make sure it was going to a top shelf jeweler who could minimize the metal in the prongs.

IDJ in NYC carry Gabriel and Co and they have an excellent bench who does amazing little prongs. I'd consider them if I were you.
 

po720

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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mrs-blop|1470844644|4064293 said:
Hi Po :)

Re the new setting - what are the specs on it? And is it coming from a jeweler/manufacturer who can do tiny little prongs for you? As I recall, Amavida is a line within the Gabriel and Co jewelry collection, so their diamond quality is generally pretty nice. But there's a whole heap going on in that ring, so I'd definitely want to make sure it was going to a top shelf jeweler who could minimize the metal in the prongs.

IDJ in NYC carry Gabriel and Co and they have an excellent bench who does amazing little prongs. I'd consider them if I were you.
Good morning mrs-blop :)

You are right on the money :)! It is a gabriel setting, https://www.gabrielny.com/engagement-ring/ER6167W83JJ/amavida#,, the measurement design says the band is 2.9mm and the basket(?) is 2.9mm. My family friend did the original placement of the 1.36 stone in the setting and would be putting the new stone in. They do custom stuff and really fine jewelry so I trust when he said they could adjust the setting for the larger stone (they removed the old stone over the weekend and confirmed we could go up to 2+). I will make sure to mention minimizing the metal in the prongs, thank you for that additional note!!

I am still waiting to hear back from IDJ from the message left on monday, from BN with pictures on the 2.05 and pictures/eye cleanliness on the larger stones, and the family friend on what they can get for my old stone since they can get the same BN stones for ~1k less than the BN prices...so much crucial information out there that i'm just (not-so) patiently waiting around for lol :whistle:

I feel like i can be honest here, no need to play it cool, i can't waitttttttttttt :cheeky: , i don't know how people do this for months ahhhh
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,378
po720|1470845764|4064303 said:
mrs-blop|1470844644|4064293 said:
Hi Po :)

Re the new setting - what are the specs on it? And is it coming from a jeweler/manufacturer who can do tiny little prongs for you? As I recall, Amavida is a line within the Gabriel and Co jewelry collection, so their diamond quality is generally pretty nice. But there's a whole heap going on in that ring, so I'd definitely want to make sure it was going to a top shelf jeweler who could minimize the metal in the prongs.

IDJ in NYC carry Gabriel and Co and they have an excellent bench who does amazing little prongs. I'd consider them if I were you.
Good morning mrs-blop :)

You are right on the money :)! It is a gabriel setting, https://www.gabrielny.com/engagement-ring/ER6167W83JJ/amavida#,,, the measurement design says the band is 2.9mm and the basket(?) is 2.9mm. My family friend did the original placement of the 1.36 stone in the setting and would be putting the new stone in. They do custom stuff and really fine jewelry so I trust when he said they could adjust the setting for the larger stone (they removed the old stone over the weekend and confirmed we could go up to 2+). I will make sure to mention minimizing the metal in the prongs, thank you for that additional note!!

I am still waiting to hear back from IDJ from the message left on monday, from BN with pictures on the 2.05 and pictures/eye cleanliness on the larger stones, and the family friend on what they can get for my old stone since they can get the same BN stones for ~1k less than the BN prices...so much crucial information out there that i'm just (not-so) patiently waiting around for lol :whistle:

I feel like i can be honest here, no need to play it cool, i can't waitttttttttttt :cheeky: , i don't know how people do this for months ahhhh
You could also ask them to send it back to Gabriel and Co and have them do the modification, and then have your jeweler set the stone
 
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