H preferable to F: is it the cut?

[Gayletmom]

After reading Gryffindor''s earlier post about the F & H stones he saw (copied below, summary is that he had focused on F and higher colors until he saw a beautiful, sparkly H stone that he couldn''t get out of his head) I have a couple of questions about cut expertise. First, I haven''t analyzed his numbers but I am assuming that the superior performance of the H he saw is due to the cut? Yes?

Second, when I get to the buying stage, how do I find the comparable stone with my stats, i.e. the sparkliest stone in the room? I am learning alot on PS and am more knowledgeable than the average consumer by a good bit but I will never have the expertise of those of you who do this every day (nor do I have to time). My plan is to look at stones from the reputable PS vendors (probably WF and GOG since I am looking at rounds) and count on them to steer me in the direction of a few of the most beautiful diamonds. Of course, I''ll narrow down using the HCA, look at the images for light leakage (idealscope?) and put the stats up here but the truth is that I will be leaning heavily on the vendors, especially if don''t go to them but have them send a couple to me. Can I rely on them, with some help from what I have learned here and you guys, and find that "to die for" stone?

Gryffindor''s excerpt:

''ve been searching for 2 months now, and today I looked at an 1.82 SI2 F and a 1.84 SI2 D right next to each other. On a whim, the jeweler showed me a 1.72 SI1 H and placed it off to the left of these two stones. I have been seriously considering the F for a month now, and the F and D both had very nice sparkle outputs. But that H stone was just going crazy on the left side, almost seizure inducing. Whatever sparkle the F and D had, the H was outdoing it by at least double. I left for a lunch meeting and all I could think about the entire afternoon was this crazy H and went back to see it in the evening.

The H, SI1, 1.72:

HCA: 1.6
7.63 - 7.68 x 4.76 mm
Carat: 1.72
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Cut, Polish, Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: none

Table: 56%
Depth: 62.2%
crown: 35.0
pavillion: 40.8
Girdle: medium to slightly thick (faceted)



The F, SI2, 1.82:

HCA: 1.8
7.78 - 7.83 x 4.86 mm
Carat: 1.82
Color: F
Clarity: SI2
Cut, Polish, Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: none

Table: 55%
Depth: 62.3%
crown: 36.0
pavillion: 40.6
Girdle: thin to medium

 

[enigma1406]

I'll offer up a few things but I'm no expert.

When you run the HCA, you'll notice the H has 3EX/1VG whereas the F has 2EX/2VG. Also the H is in the 'TIC' range and the F is in the 'FIC' range (I forgot what these mean, so maybe someone else can explain) so this could explain why there is a difference.

Also, looking at this you'll notice that the crown angle for the F is class 2B whereas the H's crown angle is class 1B. I think the table, depth and pavilions of both of these diamonds are in the same category, so the crown is the only real difference.

With all of that said, they're both probably great diamonds. As others have said many times, the HCA is just to eliminate bad diamonds. Just because a diamond scores a 1.8 or even a 1, doesn't mean it's the diamond for you! Comparisons as done between the F, H, and D are what should ultimately decide which one you go with! GL!

ETA: Many people have relied on vendors, so you can ask them to personally pick which one looks the best of a few you've picked. That does require a lot of trust but many people have been happy with their choices so far! If there is one local to you, you can stop by and this could be a reason to go with them over other PS vendors.

 

[stone-cold11]

FIC is fiery ideal cut, it will show more fire at the expense of light returns, which is probably what Gry noticed and that he does not fancy the fire but prefer the brightness, others may differ in preferences.

Also, do not choose a round by HCA, it is only use to eliminate bad performers.

With the use of IS/ASET, HCA is not that important. So, with these vendors that provide these images, analyze these images will give you a better guide.

 

[Gayletmom]

Thanks to both of you for the explanations, they are really helpful. I am starting to get more of an understanding of the many possibilities and am not sure what it is that appeals to me in a particular stone except that I know it when I see it. WF is only a few hours away from me and I''m thinking that it will be very helpful for me to go there and see what I like the best, etc.

 

[stone-cold11]

WF''s stones, their ACA brand are all in the TIC range, so you will not be able to see if you like the BIC (brilliant ideal cut) or FIC. Maybe they have some in those range in their ES stones.

Brilliant ideal cut, looks brighter and usually have better spread but less fire.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/12/2008 5:06:27 PM
Author: Gayletmom
Thanks to both of you for the explanations, they are really helpful. I am starting to get more of an understanding of the many possibilities and am not sure what it is that appeals to me in a particular stone except that I know it when I see it. WF is only a few hours away from me and I''m thinking that it will be very helpful for me to go there and see what I like the best, etc.

It''s always preferable to see them in person if you can! What fun. Just make sure you call them ahead of time and let them know what you are looking for and make an appointment.

 

[Gayletmom]

Doesn''t that sound like a fun trip? I am such a jewelry lover that I get worked up just thinking about it. And now that I have been hanging out on these boards there are lots of other pieces I am longing for! I will definitely call first (sometime after the first of the year) so that they can be prepared.

I''m learning all sorts of new things: BIC, TIC, FIC. All new to me. So what is the difference between fire and brightness-sorry if it is a silly question. I would love to find what they call an "Expert Selection" in the hope that I can still get a really well cut stone for a bit less of a premium than their ACA. A girl can dream!

 

[stone-cold11]

fire is color light, basically dispersion of white light into the component colors. brightness is just white light return.

I think ES is just stones they have bought into their inventory and stones that didn''t make the cut for the ACA.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/12/2008 5:38:27 PM
Author: Gayletmom
Doesn't that sound like a fun trip? I am such a jewelry lover that I get worked up just thinking about it. And now that I have been hanging out on these boards there are lots of other pieces I am longing for! I will definitely call first (sometime after the first of the year) so that they can be prepared.

I'm learning all sorts of new things: BIC, TIC, FIC. All new to me. So what is the difference between fire and brightness-sorry if it is a silly question. I would love to find what they call an 'Expert Selection' in the hope that I can still get a really well cut stone for a bit less of a premium than their ACA. A girl can dream!

BIC - brilliant ideal cut

TIC - Tolkowsky ideal cut

FIC- fiery ideal cut

And fire is just coloured light, brilliance is white light. Read more here

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/brill.asp

 

[Gayletmom]

Thanks, Lorelei. I had not yet gotten that far on the PS educational page-very interesting stuff. The more I learn, the more enthralled I am by the possibilities of light, fire, etc!

 

[gryffindor]

Hi Gayletmom, I''m happy to see my experience has been helpful to you.

(BTW, I am a girl doing the diamond hunting and researching for my ring. FF would rather watch ESPN than read Pricescope, and me vice versa

)

I saw stones over the past 3 months with 6 jewelers, 5 in town and 1 out of town. I picked the most knowledgeable jeweler who also seemed most genuine, a husband and wife operation with the least flashy storefront. I know people on here seem to be very happy with internet purchases, but I needed to see the stones to make a decision. My jeweler has been most patient and has not seemed to mind at all that I have come to see the same stones over and over and over and over again, and then still ordered and shown me more. I don''t think I could have done this online. The direct comparison of the D, F, and H stones is what caught my eye about the superb sparkle of the H. If I had seen it just by itself, I probably wouldn''t have noticed it as much. Also, having seen so many decent, mediocre, and bad SI2s over 3 months helped me identify the H SI1 as a great find in clarity.

From what others have said here, when I look at the H from the top down, all you see is sparkle and brilliance. However, I noticed at the store today that when I look from the side, I think I can see the H color although I have no other stone to compare it with. My FF has indicated he wanted for me to select a D, but that will have to be a future upgrade because to find a D with the performance of the H that fits our budget will take probably another 3 months and I''d like to get engaged sooner rather than later!

Good luck!!!

 

[beach]

That is why you want to buy a stone from a store that has an upgrade policy so you can change the color later on

 

[Gayletmom]

Hi Gryffindor,

I''m glad that you are having some success in your search. That H that you saw sounds like a real beauty! I find that the only drawback to Pricescope is that I am no longer easy to please when it comes to diamonds (that and the amount of time I spend here).

I know what you mean about needing to see the stones in person. Luckily for me, I''m about 4-5 hours from one of the PS vendors that has a great reputation so I am planning a couple of weekend trips there. I have a lot of lead time as I am planning an upgrade (I lost my ering after 19 years) and my husband has suggested that we might wait for our 20th anniversary and do "something really big"-of course, I am sitting tight. It''s good for my education but tough on my patience!

Anyway, thanks for your interesting question and please do keep us posted. And don''t forget the pictures when the time comes!