Green Zircon: Help me decide Pls...

[blithesome71]

Ok, I''m a lurker here and not a regular poster... But I need your advice/recommendation and help me decide which one to go for between these two green zircons I found from an ebay seller.


1st one....

Weight: 3.95 ct.
Size: 9.77mm (Depth 5.62mm)
Color: Green
Cut: Round
Clarity: VSI
Enhancements: None

 

[blithesome71]

2nd...

Weight: 1.60 ct.
Size: 7mm x 7mm (Depth 3.86mm)
Color: Green
Cut: Round Octagon
Clarity: VSI
Enhancements: None

 

[movie zombie]

personally, i''m not smitten with either one. both appear to have a window and one seems to have a lot of extinction going on. however, there are always trade offs and budget to consider. personally, i''d save my $ and keep looking.

mz

 

[blithesome71]

I like the bigger one because, well, it''s big

& it''s pure green. However, the cut of the smaller one is more attractive for me & I think it''s more sparkly than the big one. But I think the bigger gem is more stunning when it''s set. Oh I''m so torn... Also, does it really take 2-3 weeks for USPS priority international to arrive? ''cos I''m still waiting for my 3 ordered stones from a different seller.

Thanks in advance for your feedbacks regarding these gem. Hopefully I''ll get to decide before the bidding ends (or hopefully the seller re list the item hehe)

 

[blithesome71]

Thanks smitten for your reply. Please forgive my ignorance but what is "extinction"? Is it the dark areas in a stone? (''cos I notice the bigger zircon has that "dark/shadowed" area on it) Oh, I forgot to mention, it says the photo was taken under flourescent light. Thought it might help.

 

[Barrett]

2 to 3 weeks from a seller in the U.S.? with priority mail? It should have taken an average of 2-3 days with priority..maybe 5 max if it gets hung up..

 

[blithesome71]

AmGuy, I''m from outside U.S. but the seller is from U.S and the other seller is from Asia. The item letf U.S. last week, Sep.23... & unfortunately, I haven''t heard from my local post yet

I''m still giving it a week. After that, I''m gonna contact the seller again and perhaps do something about it...

 

[ma re]

I like the first one better too, simply because of the deeper shade of green. Actually, I can''t say I saw too many green zircons with a really nice, deep color.

P. S. Extinction is an effect produced by an area of the stone that''s cut too deep to reflect light back, so light gets "lost in the depths of a gem"

And yes, it looks like those dark (black) patches you see in the photo. If there is little of it, it''s not a problem, as it can provide that extra bit of contrast to the stone or make scintillation more obvious, but if there''s a lot of it, it becomes a problem because it takes away from the stone''s brilliance.

 

[chrono]

The first stone is a nicer green and more saturation but I am concerned about the extinction that seems to overtake the stone. Yes, extinction is the dark areas in the stone. It shouldn’t have that much extinction, no matter the lighting condition. The second zircon is more lively but the saturation is not as strong. Both also show some windowing.

Of the 2, the 1st stone is slightly better but neither are really outstanding.

 

[Jeffrey Hunt]

Hi,

Personally I love green Zircon and the top photo looks like it is a bit more pure in color - less olive or yellow tones. You mention that the photo was taken under florescent lighting, depending on the temperatures of the florescents the stone that arrives may look just a bit different that the one in the photo, I would guess a less pure green.

On both stones I would carefully consider the proper mounting, you might not want it in a ring for everyday wear. Green zircon can be softer than other colors, in this case the rounded stone probably would be easier to set and protect. Given all that, once it arrives and you like the color, I would do it anyway - it''s an amazing stone. My deciding test would be to carry it outside in direct sunlight and check for scintillation - if you see a display of flashing colors you can''t go wrong.

Regards,

Jeffrey

 

[Arcadian]

Do you know if either are heated? green zircon usually isn''t so clean looking. If it is, it can cost quite a bit. As far as color, neither are great color, though the top one has the best color. The 2nd one has the best cut so may perform better.

Whats your plans for it? Its not really considered ring because it can be soft/brittle material and is (verys lightly) radioactive.


I like to call it kryptonite

-A

 

[morecarats]

They could be zircon, but I would skeptical until I saw a gemological certificate. Green zircon is quite rare, is not often found in larger sizes, and is usually heavily included. I''m a regular buyer of zircon and out of the 450 pieces in my current stock, not one is green. I had a few green ones in the last year and sold them immediately. If I had some now I could sell them for a nice profit or ... I could put them up on eBay and sell them for a fraction of what I paid for them.

Hmm, I''d have to give it some thought

 

[blithesome71]

Guys thanks to all your responses & recommendation. It helps me weigh some factors (color, cut, extinction etc.). I''ll try to ask the seller to show me some photos taken under direct sunlight to finalized my pick. Hopefully my choice will turn out right as I''m planning to set it in a WG ring... I''ll definitely post RL photos once I purchase it... BTW, re USPS, yesterday I was worried of my items but now I''m happy & delighted ''cos 2 of my ebay purchases finally arrived at the local post office today! (a round Clinohumite & a Nepalese Kyanite)

 

[blithesome71]

Hi morecarats. Right now I''m just relying on the seller''s rating and feedback. She/he''s got 100% and no negative/neutral. Also, among his listed Green Zircons in his store, that 3ct. is the biggest. The rest are mostly 1ct+ and some are heated. So there. But hopefully he''s not a bogus seller. Wish me luck

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Have you checked the seller on toolhaus.org?

I am afraid those look rather fishy to me as well.

 

[chrono]

Blithe,
Do you have any means of identifying the zircons as real green zircons?

 

[morecarats]

Buying gems from sellers you don''t know without gemological certification is high risk behavior. This is especially true with rare stones like green zircon. I''m not suggesting the seller is fraudulent. He may be well intentioned, but careless or lazy. Unfortunately eBay feedback ratings are no assurance; they require you to rely on the opinions of amateur buyers. Certification is the gold standard in the gems industry and professionals insist on it. I recommend you do likewise.

 

[blithesome71]

Date: 10/2/2009 5:54:46 AM
Author: Lady_Disdain
Have you checked the seller on toolhaus.org?


I am afraid those look rather fishy to me as well.

LD, thanks so much for that site. I''ve checked the seller srilankamall (& other sellers on my saved list) and unfortunately, there are some previous negative feedback. Good thing I haven''t placed my bid yet. Here are some of the feedback I read:

* Never received item bid on, although item was paid for.
* No color change noted in these garnets
* Not what I expected (Reply by srilankamall (Apr-02-08 06:02): Sorry to hear that. Came as surprise 65 days after sale with zero communication. A nice email would have been more pleasant and given us better resolving options.)

...Guys, should I still go for it & take a risk? (esp. with the smaller green zircon)

 

[blithesome71]

Chrono, unfortunately I don''t. The only mean I can think of is to send it to my Aunt in Japan and have it certified there (T.G.L Japan) then send it back to me. But it''s too much of a hassle... sigh... Should I still go for it? I like zircon for their high RI (though they''re fragile/brittle).


morecarats, yes I do agree with you. I''ll try to ask the seller if they can also provide gem certification for their green zircon. thanks so much on your advise.

 

[jstarfireb]

I wouldn''t take the risk given the negative feedback.

This one looks nice to me, although I don''t know the seller...I know you can''t always go by this, but going by the amount of information on their gems, they look reputable.
16365 Zircon,
Md Dk Green, 2.62 cts antique cushion cut measuring 7.5x7.4x5.0 mm, eye clean, from Sri Lanka. A fine green zircon of excellent cutting and clarity.
Priced at $40/carat or $104.80/gem

http://www.djraregems.com/finegems.html - tough to find if you don''t Ctrl-F it, but it''s about 1/5 of the way down the page.

 

[AustenNut]

Have you seen this green zircon? It''s a 3.54ct stone from gemline, which has a great reputation here. And who knows what price they''d be willing to accept in the Best Offer section.

 

[blithesome71]

jstarfireb, nice link. Actually, that''s the shape/cut I''m looking for a green zircon (cushion) and have it set in a ring (bezel) but most of the ones I saw in ebay are round and oval.

And yeah, it''s tough to find it in that page hadn''t I used Ctrl+F ''cos they''ve got long list of items. Oh, the yellow-green round zircon at the bottom page caught my attention. Thanks for that link.


AustenNut, I''ve checked that green zircon you mentioned & yeah, I like the color & cut! Though, I''m a lil concern on the depth. Is 5.5mm depth proportioned with 8.5mm? ''cos personally I don''t like a pavillions that''s too deep... I also asked the seller regarding some info on shipping (just in case I purchase from them).


By the way guys, after reading all your advises & recommendations, I asked the ebay seller a lot of questions

& he''s honest with his reply:

"The zircon is guaranteed to be natural. The treatment information is included according to the person who we get it from (usually the miner or the cutter). They know what they do with it but I don''t. As a fact the only treatment if any done to zircon in Sri Lanka is a mild heating, nothing else. They don''t have sophisticated methods to treat stones. I can assure you that this is a genuine zircon but the treatment information are according to the person who brings it to me. My photographing is done in Sri Lanka and I don''t have any equipment to take some new pictures. Under direct sunlight gemstones are not as brilliant as under propper lighting. Also, this zircon has a more yellowish tone than the picture under natural daylight. Brilliance is obviously less. Considering all these factors it is priced accordingly."

I politely told him my response. I like the fact that he''s honest & he didn''t hesitate to describe the gem in RL. He also responds promptly... So there. I guess I''ll just have to search harder & well, find an alternative stone that''s less rare than green zircon.

 

[morecarats]

Classic eBay seller response (with translations):

"The zircon is guaranteed to be natural" -- please take my word for it

"The treatment information is included according to the person who we get it from (usually the miner or the cutter)" -- if I''m wrong, it''s not my fault

"the only treatment if any done to zircon in Sri Lanka is a mild heating, nothing else" -- just because we heat sapphires in Sri Lanka at 1600 centrigrade doesn''t mean anything

"They don''t have sophisticated methods to treat stones [in Sri Lanka]" -- we''re just simple people, even if we''ve been treating gems for more than 1000 years

"My photographing is done in Sri Lanka and I don''t have any equipment to take some new pictures" -- I didn''t photograph the gem

"Under direct sunlight gemstones are not as brilliant as under propper lighting" -- please don''t examine the stone too carefully

"this zircon has a more yellowish tone than the picture under natural daylight" -- the photos have been adjusted so they look better

"Brilliance is obviously less" -- don''t get your hopes up

"Considering all these factors it is priced accordingly" -- you get what you paid for, so please don''t complain later


Then there''s the potential buyer''s response:

"I like the fact that he''s honest" -- I believe what people tell me, why do we need gemological labs?

 

[blithesome71]

morecarats,

nope, that''s not what I meant about his "honesty"... when he mentioned that "this zircon has a more yellowish tone than the picture under natural daylight" I mean, he could''ve just stressed out that the pic is accurate (''cos the bigger zircon has that good green) just to make me buy it but instead he mentioned about the yellow tone in natural daylight. so there.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Date: 10/3/2009 9:54:39 PM
Author: blithesome71

AustenNut, I''ve checked that green zircon you mentioned & yeah, I like the color & cut! Though, I''m a lil concern on the depth. Is 5.5mm depth proportioned with 8.5mm? ''cos personally I don''t like a pavillions that''s too deep... I also asked the seller regarding some info on shipping (just in case I purchase from them).

That depth is absolutely proportional for the diameter. You will notice from the picture there is no window because it is cut deep enough, yet not overly deep. Shallow pavilions will are one of the main tell tales signs the stone will be windowed.

 

[AustenNut]

Thanks for chiming in Gene, as I have no clue about correct proportions.

 

[blithesome71]

Hi Guys!


It''s me again... I''d like to ask, what does "Slightly (not dangerous) radioactive, intermediate to low metamict breakdown state." mean? I have no idea about this breakdown state of zircon thought I''ve read that zircon facets wears down (& that a green zircon eventually deteriorates???

) Please let me know.


AustenNut, Thanks for that link! I finally won it

can hardly wait to receive it and post tons of IRL photos.

 

[AustenNut]

Congratulations, Blithesome! And wow, I think you''re the first person to end up getting something that I linked to. Thanks for the honor! And as thanks I''ll take lots of pictures of that zircon! How are you planning on setting it?

 

[blithesome71]

You''re very much welcome AustenNut

as for the setting, I''m planning a bezel JKT ring (perhaps on the 1st Quarter of 2010) ''cos julia''s sched is fully booked til December.

I''m really excited. BTW I found this nice setting from another thread... (I think I want this same design for this green zircon). What do you think?

 

[morecarats]

Date: 11/17/2009 9:55:55 PM
Author: blithesome71
Hi Guys!


It''s me again... I''d like to ask, what does ''Slightly (not dangerous) radioactive, intermediate to low metamict breakdown state.'' mean? I have no idea about this breakdown state of zircon thought I''ve read that zircon facets wears down (& that a green zircon eventually deteriorates???

) Please let me know.


AustenNut, Thanks for that link! I finally won it

can hardly wait to receive it and post tons of IRL photos.

Some zircons contain uranium and thorium. Over a long period of time, the radioactivity from these elements will damage the crystal structure of the mineral. This process is known as metamictization. These so-called metamict zircons can lose their crystal structure altogether and become an isotropic glass. The process also lowers a mineral''s refractive index, hardness, and specific gravity. That''s why they are known as "low zircons".