got cheated in South Africa?

[paperclip]

Hello all,

This is my first time here and could use some help regarding this matter.

Recently my parents bought a loose diamond from Johannesburg South Africa while on a tour but the price tag is pretty hefty for a low graded diamond(i think). Did some internet research and nothing seems to explain why it could be so expensive. Was just wondering if anyone here could shed some light on the matter.

1.03 carat Round brilliant
Ideal cut
VS2
colour : L
all the other properties indicate as VERY GOOD
certified by DIA (couldnt find this certification lab on the internet so wondering if it''s defunct)

Price was 50,000ish ZAR which is about USD6k+

Would be grateful if anyone could help out. thanks!

 

[yssie]

that''s definitely at least 2,000 more than it should be..

 

[paperclip]

Ouch..i sort of expected that. I reckon it''ll be around USD 3kish to 4k?

Anyone heard of DIA? are they a reputable South African diamond certification lab? Is this diamond considered very low in quality then?

Thks and appreciate the replies

 

[Kaleigh]

Never heard of DIA. You have to be an informed consumer to buy in a market like SA. You can''t go there, and buy blindly. Not saying they did, but at least they should have had the stone independently appriased... ETC....... My thing is you have to be an informed consumer in any market. I am guessing since it was SA, they thought all would be fine or perhaps let their guard down??? Big mistake.

 

[yssie]

An L colour can be beautiful, like any other colour, if the cut is good. Can you take it to one of the PS appraisers - or even a local vendor - and find out more about it's cut (the numbers)? There's always the possibility of a recut.

 

[paperclip]

There are numbers on the certificate it came with. Will check that later but I think the cut is pretty decent as the stone itself does look really nice and shiny. Having said that, I don''t have much experience with diamonds so it''s difficult to say.

 

[Dancing Fire]

yep, your parents got rip off.

 

[yssie]

Well, a well-cut and sparkly lower colour stone is a whole different ball game - one in which I, for one, aspire to play!

The regulars can definitely help you find out if it's performing it's best.

 

[tarator]

I just got an L AGS 0, ideal cutt SI1, 1.19 carat for 3600USD. I did notice most stones in stores in SA were more expensive than on the internet. I was surprised, however, how many lower colored diamonds they sell and South African, and at just high prices. They were fun trying on though, I even got to see a Q!

 

[paperclip]

Will an ideal cut L coloured diamond look inferior to other whiter diamonds? or is it a matter of preference? Was thinking of using this diamond as a proposal ring.

 

[stone-cold11]

Preference. Depends on if your gf likes it or is bounded by convention/general wisdom...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/29/2009 9:02:37 AM
Author: paperclip
Will an ideal cut L coloured diamond look inferior to other whiter diamonds? or is it a matter of preference? Was thinking of using this diamond as a proposal ring.

judging on how off they are on price - I''m not sure that I would trust any of the other stats, particularly if it is ''ideal''.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 10/29/2009 9:44:58 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

judging on how off they are on price - I''m not sure that I would trust any of the other stats, particularly if it is ''ideal''.

I''d emphatically second this.

The term ''ideal'' isn''t regulated, so it''s important to know what criteria the grading lab uses to assign the label ''ideal''.

Considering you can''t locate the lab now, that doesn''t bode well. However, at this point, I''m not sure what recourse your parents actually have on this. It may just be a bit of an expensive lesson.

 

[paperclip]

The rock was actually chosen amongst many on trays of diamonds with different prices. My parents claimed that it looks a lot better compared to the rest. Still it is relative i guess. The place apparently is pretty big and looks reputable with armed guards/securities and all. I doubt the stones quality can be that bad. It's probably just a tourist trap. Will try to get the cut statistics off the cert when I can. Thks again for the insights all

This is the certifier btw

http://www.southafricandiamondtrading.co.za/index.php?c_id=2&c_name=/Diamond-Certification/

 

[HVVS]

The only two L color rings I immediately recall are both Asschers. This is an antique Asscher in L color:
Erica


Someone has a L color Asscher set in a halo ring, but I can't remember who it is. It's in the e-ring thread in Show Me the Ring.
edit: asscherhalolover's ring:

 

[yssie]

Date: 10/29/2009 10:16:19 PM
Author: HVVS
The only two L color rings I immediately recall are both Asschers. This is an antique Asscher in L color:
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/op-requested/as-requested-3-00ct-l-vs2-antique-asscher-in-5-stone-setting-t124123.html

Someone has a L color Asscher set in a halo ring, but I can't remember who it is. It's in the e-ring thread in Show Me the Ring.

Maybe you're thinking of Erica Grace (no halo though)

https://www.pricescope.com/forum/op-requested/as-requested-3-00ct-l-vs2-antique-asscher-in-5-stone-setting-t124123.html

One of my favourites

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

Date: 10/29/2009 10:16:19 PM
Author: HVVS
The only two L color rings I immediately recall are both Asschers. This is an antique Asscher in L color:

Erica



Someone has a L color Asscher set in a halo ring, but I can''t remember who it is. It''s in the e-ring thread in Show Me the Ring.

edit: asscherhalolover''s ring:

yup that''s mine, it''s GIA certed L, i love it!

 

[HVVS]

If you get tired of it, lend it to me for a while.

This is an M color:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/im-seeing-purple-photos-from-wink-of-my-purple-sapphire-halo-setting.128291/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-infinity-1-00-m-si2-is-here-photos.121329/

 

[paperclip]

wow they both look really nice!! What is a good band to go with such coloured diamonds? gold? white gold? I have absolutely no clue about these sort of thiings

 

[HVVS]

Lots of people will say yellow gold. But it depends on the diamond and whether it has any gray, brown, etc. "undertones." It may look better in white metals than in yellow gold. You just have to try it and see. Sometimes the YG just doesn't flatter a light yellow tinted diamond. If you look at true vintage and antique rings (see Fay Cullen or Lang's Antiques online), there are lots of K through M or N and even lower colors set in white metals. You see the yellow of the diamond, but that's not necessarily bad unless you don't like the tint. L isn't very strong and will probably look candlelight ivory and look very nice in white metals, like the two rings that I mentioned.

This thread has a K color in YG. Looks great.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-moms-oec-ring.127611/

This one is a S color in silver.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/infinity-i1-s-color-set-in-silver.124781/

Another thing I've seen, that's more contemporary, is a YG head and a white metal shank. But YG is softer than WG or other white metals, so you'd have to be careful how the head is designed. You don't want the stone falling out if you accidentally bend just one prong a little.

 

[paperclip]

Thanks HVVS!

That''s very informative. I''ll probably go for white metal ie white gold or platinum as gold is a lot more eye catching when worn outside. Might be a bit dangerous if worn out in my part of the world. will try to posts some pics later if possible.

 

[HVVS]

Maisie's M in YG
That's a M in YG. There's also a thread in SMTR about a L Good Old Gold signature cushion and it's set in a white metal.

One of my rings is a very light M that faces up a beautiful light ivory. It was in a YG Tiffany when I bought it, but I reset it in WG b/c I didn't think that YG showed of the diamond as well as the contrast between the M color and the WG color did. I'll admit that the first time I saw an antique diamond with a N/O yellow tint set in platinum, I about gagged at the yellow tint, lol. Now, I like it.

 

[Todd Gray]

Diamond Color is a personal preference, there is nothing wrong with an L color diamond - in fact, many people prefer a diamond with a body color of L-M-N because they like the warmer tones as opposed to the cooler tones of something higher on the color scale...

If the diamond is accurately graded as a VS-2, L color, they paid more than they would have from a reliable internet vendor - however the cost was obviously acceptable to your parents at the time and the diamond is a remembrance of their trip to South Africa, so perhaps the extra expense is acceptable. Note that the price they paid for the diamond is comparable to what a diamond of those characteristics and undefined proportions would likely sell for in a traditional brick-and-mortar jewelry store here in the states...

It is not possible to discuss the visual performance of the diamond, nor how it might compare to other diamonds, without knowing more about the proportions and cut quality of the diamond, e.g. total depth; table diameter; crown angle; pavilion angle; girdle thickness; culet size; polish grade; symmetry grade; and views of the diamond as seen through various scopes such as an Ideal Scope, ASET Scope and a Gems Fantasy (H&A) Scope.

Around the World - Diamonds are a Buyer Beware (and do your homework prior to purchase) product... People who buy diamonds "on the fly" are destined to second guess their purchase forever more.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 10/29/2009 10:05:46 AM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 10/29/2009 9:44:58 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

judging on how off they are on price - I''m not sure that I would trust any of the other stats, particularly if it is ''ideal''.

I''d emphatically second this.

The term ''ideal'' isn''t regulated, so it''s important to know what criteria the grading lab uses to assign the label ''ideal''.

Considering you can''t locate the lab now, that doesn''t bode well. However, at this point, I''m not sure what recourse your parents actually have on this. It may just be a bit of an expensive lesson.

And third it.

 

[paperclip]

omg maisie''s M on YG is absolutely stunning!

 

[Gleam]

You say your parents bought this diamond at what seemed to be a large retail store. Did they pay with a credit card? If so, I would immediately call the store, tell them you're planning to file a chargeback unless they give you a refund upon return of the stone by mail. If they don't comply, file the chargeback.

I don't want to sound harsh, but as Dancing Fire said, it sounds like they were ripped off.

I would not want to "make do" with a diamond like this, especially since you plan on proposing with it. Will your girlfriend be happy with this stone?

 

[Gleam]

Date: 10/31/2009 12:34:07 PM
Author: Todd Gray
Diamond Color is a personal preference, there is nothing wrong with an L color diamond - in fact, many people prefer a diamond with a body color of L-M-N because they like the warmer tones as opposed to the cooler tones of something higher on the color scale...


If the diamond is accurately graded as a VS-2, L color, they paid more than they would have from a reliable internet vendor - however the cost was obviously acceptable to your parents at the time and the diamond is a remembrance of their trip to South Africa, so perhaps the extra expense is acceptable. Note that the price they paid for the diamond is comparable to what a diamond of those characteristics and undefined proportions would likely sell for in a traditional brick-and-mortar jewelry store here in the states...

Paperclip mentioned he''s thinking of using this diamond in an engagement ring, so I would assume he would reimburse his parents for the $6K+. As long as he''s happy with the price and his girlfriend would be happy with the stone, I guess that''s okay.

I am shocked that brick-and-mortar stores would charge that much for a comparable stone in the U.S. Wow, is that really true? A rhetorical question, because I know you are an expert, but that seems to be a great big chunk of money for a non-GIA certified stone of such specifications (assuming the specs are even accurate).

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 10/31/2009 3:28:41 PM
Author: Gleam
I am shocked that brick-and-mortar stores would charge that much for a comparable stone in the U.S. Wow, is that really true? A rhetorical question, because I know you are an expert, but that seems to be a great big chunk of money for a non-GIA certified stone of such specifications (assuming the specs are even accurate).

Most retail jewelry stores in the U.S. work on a 2X or 3X mark-up, so actually I could see a diamond of this description easily selling for that price... In addition, many, many retail jewelry stores in the U.S. sell diamonds which have not been lab graded at all and rely on the inexperience / naivety of their customers when selling diamonds... Most members of PS are far more diamond savvy than the average consumer

 

[paperclip]

Just got the stats of the L. Can anyone make any sense of this? thks!

diam. 6.28mm(6.24-6.32) (1.3%)
depth 4.13mm 65.8% F
crown 35.0 '' 14.9% V.G, V.G
pavil 42.1'' 44.7% V.G, V.G
table 3.46mm 55.0% V.G
culet 0.2% None V.G
girdle 3.9% (3.1 Medium - 5.6Sl.Thick)

 

[yssie]

It's not going to perform its best.

It's very deep - depth should be, ideally, under 62%. This 65% total depth is going to make your diamond look more tinted than another L of lesser depth: there's more diamond to look through face-up. The depth is also affecting the face-up size - it's facing up like a <0.9ct-ish. An ideal 1ct would be 6.4-6.5mm.

The crown and pavilion are very steep/deep for each other. If you keep the crown at 35, you ideally want a pav of ~40.7. You're likely seeing a lot of leakage, esp. under the table.

I would take it to a local B&M that carries AGS0 stones (HOF, peerless..) and compare, the colours will obviously be different but you might see a difference in the sparkle and overall brightness. If you can, I'd definitely consider a recut, esp. if you're going to use it for an E-ring.

Lower coloured stones can be beautiful, if well-cut, well-set, and if your girlfriend likes the warmth.

Good luck!