Glass filled rubies

[Bonsai]

I have a question about glass filled rubies.

I have a ruby that I purchased in a ring. It was one of the first rings I ever bought myself and it’s my favorite. I love it. The Ruby came with a certificate from the jeweler that says it’s an a a natural Ruby.

I have two pieces from them. I have a necklace too, and looking at both of the pieces under a loop. I feel very certain that these are clearly glass filled rubies.

So my question is how should that be described from a jeweler? What should I expect? I think I have read that a jeweler should disclose that they’re composite rubies, but is describing it as grade a natural Ruby misleading

For the record, I am sending it to GIA with my Emerald. I’m just curious as to what your thoughts are on that I feel highly certain it will come back Glass filled

 

[Bonsai]

*AAA natural ruby is what the certificate said sorry for the correction to my above post. I was talking to text didn’t pick it up.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Well, you're doing the right thing by quenching your curiosity with a proper cert. Don't panic until you know for sure. Good luck!

Technically, a seller can use as much "puffery" as he/she wants when describing an item. "AAA" isn't an actual grade of gem or ruby, so he can say "AAAAAAAAAA+ to infinity" if he wants. Calling it a natural ruby is a bit more tricky. Some folks regard glass-filled rubies as "natural" because they were in fact born of the earth, and then enhanced by man. Some do not feel they are "natural" because the extensive filling process makes the final product a composite, and not a naturally occurring gem. In any event, the treatment (if any) 100% should have been disclosed. Absence of such disclosure violates FTC regulations. How long ago did you purchase it?

P.S. In fact, I think the FTC also states that glass-filled rubies must be advertised as composite. In that case, if the stone is in fact treated, that seller was wrong for calling it "natural" and also for non-disclosure of the treatment. Let me look it up.

 

[VividRed]

AAA is the hallmark of poor quality …how much did you pay for the ring? Do you have pictures to share?

If you didn’t spend too much and love the ring, that’s still a win in my book!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Found this... click. Even if it's too late to hold the seller accountable, you can file a report with the FTC.

Excerpt:

In addition to disclosing gemstone treatments as described above, you should avoid describing products made with gemstone material and any amount of filler or binder, such as lead glass, in the following ways:

• With the unqualified word “ruby,” “sapphire,” “emerald,” “topaz,” or name of any other precious or semi-precious stone;
• As a “treated ruby,” “treated sapphire,” “treated emerald,” “treated topaz,” or “treated [gemstone name]”;
• As a “laboratory-grown [gemstone name],” “laboratory-created [gemstone name],” “[manufacturer name]-created [gemstone name],” “or “synthetic [gemstone name];” or
• As a “composite [gemstone name],” “hybrid [gemstone name],” or “manufactured [gemstone name],” unless you disclose clearly and conspicuously that the product: (A) does not have the same characteristics as the named stone; and (B) requires special care. You should also disclose the special care requirements to the purchaser.

 

[Autumn in New England]

P.P.S. Anyone spot this little tidbit at the top of the webpage?

"The FTC is closed due to the lapse in funding."

Now someone tell me how cutting funding to this agency helps American consumers? Founded in 1914. Infuriating. Don't get me started.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

If you soak it in a little lemon juice it should come out looking all broken with lines all over it. If you do that with untreated sapphires nothing happens.

Most overseas sellers that I’ve dealt with will pull a ruby from a sale once they know it’s glass filled. Long time ago I asked about one. They took it to the lab. Came back and said: it’s rubbish, glass filled.
That was the end of it.

 

[Bron357]

Unfortunately the two designations used are “natural” and “lab grown”.
Under “natural” you then have treatments.
Starts with heat only, then can be high heat with flux/glass also heat with beryllium.
Labs usually state as heat only, heat with minor residues, heat with moderate residues and then essentially “composite” ie the ruby is more flux/glass than ruby.
A jeweller might only go so far as to distinguish between natural and lab grown with no mention of treatments because that requirements better knowledge and equipment.
Most buyers only know to ask if it is natural or if it is lab created. So saying natural even with significant residues is still technically correct but you’d hope that your jeweller isn’t dealing in the lowest quality rubies ie sows ears turned into silk purses!
Some jewellers are just sellers, they may have no or limited Gemological training. Obviously a good jeweller is usually both.

 

[LilAlex]

They took it to the lab. Came back and said: it’s rubbish, glass filled. That was the end of it...

...but only for you! Right back on the shelf.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

If you soak it in a little lemon juice it should come out looking all broken with lines all over it. If you do that with untreated sapphires nothing happens.

Most overseas sellers that I’ve dealt with will pull a ruby from a sale once they know it’s glass filled. Long time ago I asked about one. They took it to the lab. Came back and said: it’s rubbish, glass filled.
That was the end of it.

Will the lemon juice trick ruin a glass filled ruby permanently, or is the effect temporary?

I have a pair of earrings I love that look great, I have 0 info on the rubies themselves but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were glass filled or treated out the wazoo. I would like to know for my own knowledge, but I don’t want to wreck the stones (or send them in to a lab).

Alternately is there a resource that could teach me how to use a loupe to identify whether the ruby is glass filled or not?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Will the lemon juice trick ruin a glass filled ruby permanently, or is the effect temporary?

I have a pair of earrings I love that look great, I have 0 info on the rubies themselves but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were glass filled or treated out the wazoo. I would like to know for my own knowledge, but I don’t want to wreck the stones (or send them in to a lab).

Alternately is there a resource that could teach me how to use a loupe to identify whether the ruby is glass filled or not?

Unfortunately it will mess it up permanently and it looks absolutely horrible once you do it.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

...but only for you! Right back on the shelf.

What’s that supposed to mean? That all overseas sellers are unethical?

 

[Bonsai]

AAA is the hallmark of poor quality …how much did you pay for the ring? Do you have pictures to share?

If you didn’t spend too much and love the ring, that’s still a win in my book!

This was the first ring I ever bought myself when I had some money and it kind of prompted me to start learning about jewelry and I really kind of got interested in it. But I quickly learned that Ruby‘s are sometimes treated in such a way and it became plainly obvious to me too that the amount I paid for the ring was probably a reasonable price for the setting. The ring is absolutely beautiful. I don’t wanna post it. It’s a unique local jeweler and their work is awesome but I have also learned they don’t use the best quality stones. I have another stone from them that had a huge window and I sent it to Chris Wolfsberg and he re-cut it and it’s amazing…. but as I’ve learned about jewelry, I suspect that this Ruby is probably glass filled, and like I said I can’t be too mad about it. The price I paid is really a fair price for the setting alone. Someday I kind of wouldn’t mind replacing the Ruby I guess maybe I’ll see how this report turns out

When you look at it, it’s kinda got a line down the middle that flashes purple that’s what makes me suspect. It’s glass filled but the surface of it is very smooth. Is that a telltale sign of anything

I don’t wanna soak it in lemon juice or anything if it’ll ruin it I still love the ring

I just I don’t know if it’s misleading the way they sold it calling it natural and AAA. If it comes back the way, I think it will. I might make a mention of it to him, but I’m not gonna be rude or anything like that

I have an unheated ruby cut by sennin Esko that’s about to get set in platinum and I think it’s gonna be amazing….

 

[Bonsai]

On another note, I couldn’t tell you where I read it. It might’ve been here someone else I want to say I saw something that GIA was not going to label Ruby’s according to the residue amount anymore that they were just gonna list it as heated and unheated is that correct?

Also, the G.I. on a separate tangent list sapphires is heated if a sapphire has residue from beryllium or some type of filling process I know they can sometimes does GIA lift that separately like if I have a sapphire certification that’s listed as heated. It’s only heated, not filled in anyway with anything correct

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

On another note, I couldn’t tell you where I read it. It might’ve been here someone else I want to say I saw something that GIA was not going to label Ruby’s according to the residue amount anymore that they were just gonna list it as heated and unheated is that correct?

Also, the G.I. on a separate tangent list sapphires is heated if a sapphire has residue from beryllium or some type of filling process I know they can sometimes does GIA lift that separately like if I have a sapphire certification that’s listed as heated. It’s only heated, not filled in anyway with anything correct

I’ve never gotten my head around the heat vs heat with stuff vs Beryllium so I just opted to simply things for myself and go completely unheated for everything. My only exception are fun rummage rings like my flower one where I really don’t care and the stones are bought at low prices.

 

[Avondale]

Starts with heat only, then can be high heat with flux/glass also heat with beryllium.
Labs usually state as heat only, heat with minor residues, heat with moderate residues and then essentially “composite” ie the ruby is more flux/glass than ruby.

Also, the G.I. on a separate tangent list sapphires is heated if a sapphire has residue from beryllium or some type of filling process I know they can sometimes does GIA lift that separately like if I have a sapphire certification that’s listed as heated. It’s only heated, not filled in anyway with anything correct

I’ve never gotten my head around the heat vs heat with stuff vs Beryllium so I just opted to simply things for myself and go completely unheated for everything.

A lot of confusion about ruby treatment. I did research this thoroughly at one point, so allow me to butt in.

1. Heat only - means truly just only cooked. Getting more and more rare these days.

2. Flux healing - which is different from glass filling - or heating in the presence of borax. Becoming more and more prominent, often presented as "standard heat".
- done under very high temperatures;
- the borax acts as a dissolving agent for the corundum crystal;
- fractures are essentially dissolved and healed shut;
- the process consumes some of the elements making up the borax. What is left are glass residues - this is what you see stated as minor, moderate or significant residues in lab reports. It is essentially a signifier for how fractured the ruby crystal was originally;
- leaves visible traces - the healed fractures are noticeable upon examination, so the more there are, the more the clarity of the stone will suffer;
- essentially all of the Burmese material, a lot of the Thai material and progressively more and more of the African material is being heated with borax nowadays;
- stable.

3. Beryllium diffusion - heating in the presence of beryllium.
- done under very high temperatures;
- the beryllium penetrates the crystal, sometimes fully, altering the colour of the stone by adding yellow to it;
- stable.

4. Glass filling - which is different from flux healing - heating in the presence of lead glass.
- done under low temperatures;
- the glass penetrates open fractures and hides them - not too unsimilar to oil treatment for emeralds;
- glass filling essentially always means composite ruby, there are no residues on the lab reports with glass filling, stones are just described as glass filled;
- unstable.

The most important thing, really, is to distinguish between glass filling with lead glass and flux healing with borax. Two very very very different treatments with very very very different outcomes, and most importantly, veeeeeeeeery different prices.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Unfortunately it will mess it up permanently and it looks absolutely horrible once you do it.

thank you for letting me know! I guess I just will never know, or maybe I'll take it in to the jeweller and ask him to give me a candid opinion. They're a gift I received years ago, with sentimental value, so I wouldn't want anything to happen to them.

A lot of confusion about ruby treatment. I did research this thoroughly at one point, so allow me to butt in.

1. Heat only - means truly just only cooked. Getting more and more rare these days.

2. Flux healing - which is different from glass filling - or heating in the presence of borax. Becoming more and more prominent, often presented as "standard heat".
- done under very high temperatures;
- the borax acts as a dissolving agent for the corundum crystal;
- fractures are essentially dissolved and healed shut;
- the process consumes some of the elements making up the borax. What is left are glass residues - this is what you see stated as minor, moderate or significant residues in lab reports. It is essentially a signifier for how fractured the ruby crystal was originally;
- leaves visible traces - the healed fractures are noticeable upon examination, so the more there are, the more the clarity of the stone will suffer;
- essentially all of the Burmese material, a lot of the Thai material and progressively more and more of the African material is being heated with borax nowadays;
- stable.

3. Beryllium diffusion - heating in the presence of beryllium.
- done under very high temperatures;
- the beryllium penetrates the crystal, sometimes fully, altering the colour of the stone by adding yellow to it;
- stable.

4. Glass filling - which is different from flux healing - heating in the presence of lead glass.
- done under low temperatures;
- the glass penetrates open fractures and hides them - not too unsimilar to oil treatment for emeralds;
- glass filling essentially always means composite ruby, there are no residues on the lab reports with glass filling, stones are just described as glass filled;
- unstable.

The most important thing, really, is to distinguish between glass filling with lead glass and flux healing with borax. Two very very very different treatments with very very very different outcomes, and most importantly, veeeeeeeeery different prices.

this is amazing! All the differences are finally crystal clear for me. Thank you so much!

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

thank you for letting me know! I guess I just will never know, or maybe I'll take it in to the jeweller and ask him to give me a candid opinion. They're a gift I received years ago, with sentimental value, so I wouldn't want anything to happen to them.



this is amazing! All the differences are finally crystal clear for me. Thank you so much!

Just enjoy them! I bought so many random things when I started out. The upside is they’ve all gone up in gold value so I’m absolutely fine even if I scrap them (thank goodness for my love of thick shanks and halos).

I have “the before” and “the after” I got a clue about gems. The before all make excellent rummage/scrap jewellery still.

 

[Avondale]

I guess I just will never know, or maybe I'll take it in to the jeweller and ask him to give me a candid opinion.

You can look for some things yourself if you have a loupe lying around somewhere.

The easiest thing to spot would be surface cracks and unevenness in lustre. Glass filling happens, to put it simply, by melting the glass into open fractures of the ruby. No open fractures -> no way for the glass to enter the stone. As a result you’ll be able to use light reflecting off facets to examine whether there are surface reaching fractures or places with uneven lustre (where you see the glass instead of the corundum).

If you can’t see any surface imperfections anywhere on the stone, the chances of it being glass filled drop. Obviously with your rubies already being set you won’t be able to see everything, but if you spot the giveaways, you’ll know.

There are other tell tale signs like trapped air bubbles and blue flashes but they take a bit more experience to notice reliably, or at least I find them more difficult to distinguish.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Just enjoy them! I bought so many random things when I started out. The upside is they’ve all gone up in gold value so I’m absolutely fine even if I scrap them (thank goodness for my love of thick shanks and halos).

I have “the before” and “the after” I got a clue about gems. The before all make excellent rummage/scrap jewellery still.

Oh, I definitely do! I just wanted to know so that I don’t damage them while cleaning them or something.

As long as I didn’t overpay I love jewellery for what it is, if you know what I mean. Ok in this case I didn’t pay at all, but still I wouldn’t want the gifter to have overpaid either. Still, it was so long ago and I’ve worn them so much I think the joy I’ve gotten out of them is worth it

You can look for some things yourself if you have a loupe lying around somewhere.

The easiest thing to spot would be surface cracks and unevenness in lustre. Glass filling happens, to put it simply, by melting the glass into open fractures of the ruby. No open fractures -> no way for the glass to enter the stone. As a result you’ll be able to use light reflecting off facets to examine whether there are surface reaching fractures or places with uneven lustre (where you see the glass instead of the corundum).

If you can’t see any surface imperfections anywhere on the stone, the chances of it being glass filled drop. Obviously with your rubies already being set you won’t be able to see everything, but if you spot the giveaways, you’ll know.

There are other tell tale signs like trapped air bubbles and blue flashes but they take a bit more experience to notice reliably, or at least I find them more difficult to distinguish.

Thank you for the info! You’re an absolute wealth of info I have to say. I’m definitely going to give this a try.

 

[LilAlex]

What’s that supposed to mean? That all overseas sellers are unethical?

Not sure I understand. Every seller is overseas for somebody here -- I don't know where you're based.

No, I meant that just because a seller makes a big show over "newly" learning that a gem is treated or worse (heavens), it doesn't mean it goes right in the garbage. They will sell it to someone less knowledgeable. This stuff happens all day long. I assume this is what happens every single time a buyer makes a seller get a report and it goes sideways.

Google the now-century-old "Send this guy the bug letter" joke.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Not sure I understand. Every seller is overseas for somebody here -- I don't know where you're based.

No, I meant that just because a seller makes a big show over "newly" learning that a gem is treated or worse (heavens), it doesn't mean it goes right in the garbage. They will sell it to someone less knowledgeable. This stuff happens all day long. I assume this is what happens every single time a buyer makes a seller get a report and it goes sideways.

Google the now-century-old "Send this guy the bug letter" joke.

Ahh thought you were being snide about Asian sellers as your tastes are often too refined for their goods.