Give me more expensive Diamonds!!!!

[diagem]

Yes folks, You should buy Canadian Diamonds, and make sure the are ONLY GIA certed!!!

You want a [perfect] Diamond, cut just right, with the perfect right angles, and proportions and the Ex. symmetry.

Do you folks have any IDEA how much $$$$ you are paying, and I mean in a premium sense????

Why do you think buying EGL, HRD, IGI, etc, etc is less expensive than GIA>>>???
No, not because they are less good than other diamonds, but since the manufacturer pays C.O.D. for the rough diamonds he purchases, then he has the overhead of the factory and workers, he needs about 2-3 and plus weeks to produce his production (appr. for one parcfel of diamonds, about 150 to 500 pcs. per average parcels) Then he sends it to the GIA for certification, which takes a minimum of 5 weeks, (not including rechecks and observations) he then pays the maximum charge that any labs charge!!! Then he gets it back within 1-2 weeks, (with a pricetag), then he has to market it (in our language: to sell it) Of course he has to sell it a) for a small profit, and give the terms (60 days to who the hell knows), and then make sure they get paid!!!

A-All Diamonds are amazingly beautifull, and NONE and I do mean NONE are perfect!!!!!!
B- dont forget Certification is only an OPINION, not the BIBLE!!!!
C-make sure you buy the diamond YOU love, and then make sure you buy right, There are plenty of tools on the market, for the consumer to use, (keep in mind, that for manufacturers today to survive, they must keep with consumer demands and their standards.)

Make a diamond purcase fun, not scientific

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/16/2005 1:26:50 PM
Author:DiaGem


Do you folks have any IDEA how much $$$$ you are paying, and I mean in a premium sense????

From your description, the cost of certification equates to about 2 weeks more turnover time... which depends on what the business looks like to turn into $$$.

What could be a smart way to buy uncertified goods ? How could Pricescope''s database (or any other price refference) be used for such shopping ?

Perhaps the question is too direct. There isn''t much (if any) track record of such shopping around here.

 

[diagem]

Sorry, but it equates to 7 weeks approx. (if certed by GIA)

But why buy non-certed diamonds, you can buy diamonds certed by other organizations like EGL,IGI,HRD etc. they certify diamonds within a few days, and the are about half the cost or less than GIA. and the savings are divided by all (manufacturers, jewelers, and consumers)

What I am trying to get accross is that GIA certed diamonds are NOT, and I mean NOT the best.

Other certifications are as good, and somtimes more accurate in my opinion. I ve seen too many GIA certed diamonds that in my opinion were off their descriptions.

and again i am remaining you, there is no such thing as a perfect diamond!!!!

When the consumers walks in to a store and asks for a Hearts and arrows round diamond that is GIA certed, he should understand he is paying a premium of at least 20% plus, PLUS for his requests. And at least he should know he can purchase a diamond of the same qualities, and save this premiums. GIA is a brand for their services, not the diamonds they cert. The diamonds that the consumer purchases are not GIA diamonds, They are other Companies production with the GIA opinion!!!!

GIA is one of many tools for the consumer to use for their protection. but there are a numerous other tools available for the consumers use...

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 4/16/2005 1:26:50 PM
Author:DiaGem
Yes folks, You should buy Canadian Diamonds, and make sure the are ONLY GIA certed!!!

You want a [perfect] Diamond, cut just right, with the perfect right angles, and proportions and the Ex. symmetry.

I would change it in the sense that these diamonds should only be AGS-certed. According to your reasoning, this should be cheaper, with about the same cost for the grading report and a turn-around time of less than 2 weeks.

Date: 4/16/2005 1:26:50 PM
Author:DiaGem
Do you folks have any IDEA how much $$$$ you are paying, and I mean in a premium sense????

Why do you think buying EGL, HRD, IGI, etc, etc is less expensive than GIA>>>???

What are you trying to say? You seem to be freaking out on a specific subject, without it being clear what you want to get across.

It seems that you say that any diamond is good, and that the cheapest way of buying is through a grading report of EGL, HRD or IGI. And that would be because these labs are cheaper and faster.

That would make sense if the cutter would just send his stones to whatever lab he likes. However, the choice of the lab is a marketing decision, and based upon the premium brought about by each lab.

For a stone with high polish and symmetry, but bad proportions, I would use GIA.
For a stone with medium make and low colour and clarity, I would use EGL or IGI.
For a stone with fantastic make, I have to use AGS.

Luckily, we only produce the latter type, so we can do by using one lab only. Other cutters however will maximize by choosing a lab according to the type of stone.

Live long,

 

[perry]

But I purchased 2 uncertified diamonds - then had them appraised and certified by AGA.

I took the word from the vendor based on his reputation that they were good diamonds, then had him send them to AGA who confirmed that. I did not see the need to have a major lab at all.

I will admit that these were smaller diamonds (1/4 carat); but I see nothing wrong with the process I used. However, in the vast majority of cases we are offered certed diamonds up front by the vendors. I have not found a single vendor who is claiming to see larger really great looking diamonds that are not already certified.

So what is your real point. Most of the better internet vendors stick to major lab certifications becasue that is what redily sells. Most cutters will certify via a major lab any really well cut diamonds before they get into the hands of the retailers.

Perry

 

[diagem]

Paul, are you trying to suggest that unless you purchase GIA or AGS certed diamonds,
which according to you are either first or maybe even second quality , The rest of the labaratories who too give their opinions are automaticaly LOWER quality diamonds??

Or maybe I didnt get you...

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

You did not get me.

 

[strmrdr]

Did it ever occur to you that the fine make with the better cert. is worth the extra money to a lot of people?
Me included.
I wouldnt buy any diamond with an egl or igi cert.
Heck I dont even like gia much but would buy them if enough other info was available.
ie: GOG specials which are gia certed and very top end otherwise its ags all the way.
Asschers being another exception because iv never seen one graded by ags.

Its a simple fact that the majority of the best cut round diamonds will be sent to ags because it allows the cutter to get the premium for the extra work involved in cutting them.
The dredges will be sent to igi and non-us egl.
Thats the simple facts of the matter.

 

[elepri]

Isn''t that also a fact that EGL and IGI tend to overgrade stones on both color and clarity? If that''s the case, I don''t see how buying their stones is less expensive.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/17/2005 4:15:59 PM
Author: elepri
Isn't that also a fact that EGL and IGI tend to overgrade stones on both color and clarity? If that's the case, I don't see how buying their stones is less expensive.

egl-usa is close to gia and ags in quality grading but the rest of the egl labs forget it.

http://grading.pricescope.com/

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/17/2005 4:15:59 PM
Author: elepri
Isn''t that also a fact that EGL and IGI tend to overgrade stones on both color and clarity?

Maybe... aside Pricescope''s lab comparison exercise there might have been one or two.

I would be surprised if prices are adjusted all the way to compensate grading differences.

 

[denverappraiser]

DiaGem,

I think you’ve entirely missed Paul’s point. Manufacturers as a group are an educated and self-interested group. They would like to maximize their own profits and are willing work fairly hard to accomplish their objective. This is not unlike most of us. They bet their paychecks on it every day. The choice of which lab should be examining each stone is simply part of this process. Some labs cost more. Some labs are faster. Some labs are more stringent on grading while others are more lenient. Some will use an industry standard grading scale and some will use their own special system. Some are better recognized in certain marketplaces than others and will command a premium (or a discount) in that particular market that they may not see in others. Some are more susceptible to bribes and other kinds of external pressure. All of these things come into play and not all manufacturers will make the same decisions nor will they always make the same decisions for every stone. In the end, it’s almost always about the money.

You are clearly in the trade and you clearly understand that the mix of attributes that make a stone desirable to a customer are not always the same. This is what allows such a variety of labs, manufacturers and dealers to remain in business at the same time. They all have their place, including GIA and the Canadian diamond houses. What precisely is the problem with that?

Incidentally, some people actually think a scientific approach IS fun.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[lostdog]

WEll, there already is a system, and jewelers and consumers are free to choose.

Work out your own jumbers on who''s choosing what, and how the sahre of each lab is changing.

But if you are trying to make sense of it, consider that all of those certs are not the same, they do not contain all of the same information, and some of the information that they contain appear to be graded slightly differently.

So while a consumer might not be looking for an AGS specifically, maybe an informed consumer that has determined some cut criteria would like a cert that includes that information. How can you obtain that info otherwise in a dependable way? A third-party lab that certifies proportions of the diamond is a big comfort to some consumers.

And from what I can tell, the cutters and sellers seem to steer certain types of stone to certain labs. That''s not something you''re likely to doubt after seeing what sort of range there is in SI1 between stricter and looser labs. So if there are multiple options, it''s not simply driven by number crunching prospective buyers. If you don''t think that jeweler "shop" for certs, what is the purpose of the provisional grading they get to see before getting the official cert?

I will agree that peopel can worry simply about certain grading esoterica and not look at the individual beauty of a diamond directly, whcih means they might be passing over knockout AGS 1 equivalents chasing some 1/10 of a degree that signifies official "perfection" while missing out on better performers. No one set of numbers completely descibes a diamonds performance.

Maybe your point is that consumers should pay attention to numbers at all, just "beauty". It would be convenient for sellers, as they could simply show buyers a junky stone and a mediocre one, call the mediocre one "near-ideal", and send them happily out the door with something because it looked great under the bright specular lighting near the showcase. Seller gets to know all the info, buyer is kept in dark, lots of puffing goes on, buyer turns over money, everybody is happy, right? Sounds like a jeweler''s nostalgia for the way things used to be. It''s just too bad buyers figured out how to select the best stones themselves, now they''ll want to buy them.