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GIA triple Ex vs GIA good (1.19 carat and 1.00 carat)

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
Hi, Please help me with these two stones. I got a 1.00 carat stone in the jewelers but I think I got ripped off, they said they only deal with GIA vg but when I got the stone I was unimpressed, and the stone fell out the ring setting! The company took the stone back with great reluctancy ,and I decided to purchase my own stone from qualitydiamonds. I'd wish I'd gone to whiteflash or jamesallen now, to get a superideal cut.
Old stone (1.00 carat):
Masurement 6.42 - 6.45 x 3.82 mm
Carat 1
Colour D
Clarity VS2
Cut Good [GIA]
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Fair
Girdle STK-VTK 5%
Depth 59.3%
Table 65.0%
Crown Angle 33.0%
Crown Height 11.5%
Pavillion Angle 40.6%
Pavillion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 55.0%
Lower Half 75.0%
Cutlet None
HCA 3.2%
HCA light Very Good
HCA Fire Very Good
HCA Scintillation Good
HCA Spread Excellent
Comments: Tilt shows fish-eye

NEW Stone (1.19 carat):
Masurement 6.88 - 6.91 x 4.10 mm
Carat 1.19
Colour D
Clarity VS2
Cut Excellent [GIA]
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent
Girdle M-STK 3%
Depth 59.5%
Table 59.0%
Crown Angle 33.5 degrees
Crown Height 13.5%
Pavillion Angle 40.8 degrees
Pavillion Depth 43.0%
Star Length 45.0%
Lower Half 80.0%
Cutlet None
HCA 1.2%
HCA light Excellent
HCA Fire Excellent
HCA Scintillation Excellent
HCA Spread Excellent
Comments: N/A

I know that HCA is only a tool for weeding out >2 scores. But because this is a Triple Ex. GIA with a HCA of 1.2, does that mean that it's within ideal range? Is there any chance of the new stone being H&A. Or will it fare close to an H&A diamond.
I'm worried that the Crown Angle of 33.5 is too shallow, and the table of 59% is too high (I've read that around 57% is ideal). It sure does beat the old stones Table of 65%. I'm also worried about 45% as the new Star Length. Is that too small? Will it affect the amount of light shining in the diamond.

I hope the stone will look much bigger. Even though it is 19% bigger, the surface area shows it will only look 15% bigger. Please help me compare the stones and let me know if the newer rock was a wise choice! And, what would be any significant disadvantages of the new stone. I really want a H&A level super ideal cut now, and I'm worried that the choice I've made is not going to be as bright. I'm not sure whether GIA triple excellent vs Super Ideal Cut (e.g. Hearts and Arrows) can be visually distinguished when placed side by side by an average person under normal lighting conditions.
Thank you for your help.

PS. Both Diamonds have a fluorescence of None.

Will the new Diamond have a significantly greater Fire, Scintillation and Brightness?

ideal_parameters_comparison_of_d.png

h_amp_a_ideal_ranges.png

_1493.png

_38551.jpg
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,852
Hello Carbonquest,

As a member of the trade, I am not going to comment on specific stones. I will limit myself to commenting on some misinformation in your post.

Especially the chart where certain angle-combinations are presented as being H&A is highly disturbing. That is blatantly incorrect. There is no automatic connection whatsoever between angle-combinations and H&A. I have no idea where this chart originates from. But if this is coming from a diamond-professional, I have serious question about his or her professionalism.

Live long,
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,657
carbonquest|1478257019|4093587 said:
Hey Paul, thanks for the reply.

http://heartsandarrows.com
"Hearts and arrows" dot com is the website I got it from. I would have thought that was legit?

Have you got any optinions on the new stone?
That table is mixing apples with oranges. Angles dont product H&A stones. Precision of cut produces H&A. You can have
a stone that is H&A with bad angles (that dont return light well). Or you can a stone that has good angles (with good light return)
that is not H&A. Of course what you want is both but angles do not produce H&A stones.

You need to see H&A images of the stone to see if it is H&A OR, buy a super ideal stone from a vendor that produces reliable H&A
stones (Whiteflash).

Your new stone is considered a 60/60 stone. They tend more towards white light instead of fire due to the lower crown.
See this page...it's got lots of good info on 60/60 diamonds. FYI...Whiteflash does not sell 60/60 stones (I guess you can get
them via virtual stones).

Edit...your new stone is a lot better than your old stone.
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,852
carbonquest|1478257019|4093587 said:
Hey Paul, thanks for the reply.

http://heartsandarrows.com
"Hearts and arrows" dot com is the website I got it from. I would have thought that was legit?

Have you got any optinions on the new stone?
Checking that site, I see that they have made this chart within a certain context. Taking it out of that context is incorrect and misleading.

Live long,
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,186
As Paul said, the chart needs to be taken in context. It indicates proportions that are capable of producing hearts and arrows.

Like tyty indicated, the diamond must be cut to a high level of optical precision in order to actually result in true hearts and arrows. You would need more diagnostics in order to determine that, as a GIA report does not provide information on precision. And the averaging and rounding that GIA does makes using charts a bit less accurate to begin with.

Also concur with tyty - the new stone is clearly better! (not an endorsement, just stating the obvious) :twirl:
 

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
Thank you for your reply guys.

I know it's hard to tell without: looking at the diamond, an and an idealoscope image, but are triple excellent diamonds visually poorer than super ideal cut hearts and arrows? Is it worth sending back the stone, after it's mounted (should be ready in two weeks) to replace it with a white flash triple X super ideal cut?

I also understand that crown of 33.5 will produce less fire, but still be bright. Will this have a significant impact on scintillation?
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,186
carbonquest|1478279035|4093701 said:
Thank you for your reply guys.

I know it's hard to tell without: looking at the diamond, an and an idealoscope image, but are triple excellent diamonds visually poorer than super ideal cut hearts and arrows? Is it worth sending back the stone, after it's mounted (should be ready in two weeks) to replace it with a white flash triple X super ideal cut?

I also understand that crown of 33.5 will produce less fire, but still be bright. Will this have a significant impact on scintillation?
Paul and I are biased and cannot be trusted to give objective advise on this :lickout: Not to mention that it would be against forum rules! But there are knowledgeable folks that can give their opinions, and help you work through your own priorities.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,448
carbonquest|1478279035|4093701 said:
Thank you for your reply guys.

I know it's hard to tell without: looking at the diamond, an and an idealscope image, but are triple excellent diamonds visually poorer than super ideal cut hearts and arrows? Is it worth sending back the stone, after it's mounted (should be ready in two weeks) to replace it with a white flash triple X super ideal cut?

I also understand that crown of 33.5 will produce less fire, but still be bright. Will this have a significant impact on scintillation?
Few GIA triple xxx will come close to the standard you'd expect from a super ideal cut and generally GIAXXX are not precision cut. You cannot expect to find perfect hearts and arrows with perfect light performance by coincidence. James Allen for example sells True Heart stones which are usually non-precision cut stones that happen to be extremely well cut. CBI,ACA, GOG, Brian Gavin all sell precision cut stones that are cut with the purpose of being the finest stones.

Will you notice a difference? Probably yes, how much depends on how well cut your stone (and that's impossible to say accurately from the information given without an idealscope or at least close up photos) Unless your stone was that very rare find extremely well cut GIA XXX.

Furthermore your stone, on the information given, has a slightly lower crown angle so theoretically will have less fire/scintillation in favour of brightness.

Angles on a certificate are not the whole story and it is impossible to say how symmetrical it is etc. The only way for you to know is to search for your nearest precision cut diamond store depending on your location. The most widespread and accessible are usually hearts on fire (although their cut has been questioned to not be as great as they claim). They are extremely overpriced but should give you some idea of the kind of performance to expect. Look at the stones in the shade away from the bright halogen lights to see how the diamonds perform in more realistic diffuse lighting environment. You may find the difference is not worth the premium, or you may be blown away.

Look on youtube for GIA XXX vs super ideal cut, there are various videos by Good Old Gold comparing the two in many different lighting.

In your first post you said "you wish you'd gotten a superideal" which may play on your mind for the years to come. For some people, knowing they have the absolute rarest of cuts, the best of the best, is important (as well as having a prettier diamond). If you think this might be you, it is better to take action on this while you are within your refund period. You also seem to have made a large effort to try get a well cut stone so I think you should certainly satisfy your curiosity!
 
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