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GIA ring from Shenoa

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robertm

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
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Have read through quite a few postings here regarding Shenoa/Ebay purchases, but would like feedback on my specific situation:

I won an auction for the following ring for a little over $12K:
- Emerald cut Diamond 3.74 CT in the center.
- Color: H
- Clarity: VVS-1
- 2 Trapezoid Diamonds 0.76 CT total weight on sides.
- Color: G
- Clarity: VS-1
- Setting: Platinum

They said the ring was lost/stolen when it was sent out for independent certification. My intention was to also have it appraised independently during the 5 day return period they offer, once I received it. If it was anywhere close to what it was advertised, it would have obviously been a tremendous deal. Now, since it was "lost", they are offering my money back (all well and good)...but I feel I had won a pretty fair deal, and wanted to give them a shot to make good. They are now overnighting me a GIA ring (the other wasn''t), that is smaller center stone/different cut (marquise vs. emerald) for the same $12K + price...which I can evaluate and keep or return. This ring is:

- Marquise cut Diamond 1.68 CT in the center (GIA certificate)
- Color: D
- Clarity: VS-2
- 2 Trillion Diamonds 0.60 CT total weight on sides.
- Color: D
- Clarity: VS-2
- Setting: Platinum

Will need to decide quickly if this is a good deal or not due to the return policy and the fact that I have a wonderful proposal lined up for an amazing woman in just a couple of weeks. Thanks in advance for any help/advice.
 
Date: 7/13/2005 3:44:38 PM
Author:robertm
Have read through quite a few postings here regarding Shenoa/Ebay purchases, but would like feedback on my specific situation:

I won an auction for the following ring for a little over $12K:
- Emerald cut Diamond 3.74 CT in the center.
- Color: H
- Clarity: VVS-1
- 2 Trapezoid Diamonds 0.76 CT total weight on sides.
- Color: G
- Clarity: VS-1
- Setting: Platinum

They said the ring was lost/stolen when it was sent out for independent certification. My intention was to also have it appraised independently during the 5 day return period they offer, once I received it. If it was anywhere close to what it was advertised, it would have obviously been a tremendous deal. Now, since it was ''lost'', they are offering my money back (all well and good)...but I feel I had won a pretty fair deal, and wanted to give them a shot to make good. They are now overnighting me a GIA ring (the other wasn''t), that is smaller center stone/different cut (marquise vs. emerald) for the same $12K + price...which I can evaluate and keep or return. This ring is:

- Marquise cut Diamond 1.68 CT in the center (GIA certificate)
- Color: D
- Clarity: VS-2
- 2 Trillion Diamonds 0.60 CT total weight on sides.
- Color: D
- Clarity: VS-2
- Setting: Platinum

Will need to decide quickly if this is a good deal or not due to the return policy and the fact that I have a wonderful proposal lined up for an amazing woman in just a couple of weeks. Thanks in advance for any help/advice.
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Personally I don''t know about the first ''deal'' but you can get a 1.68 marquis stone in D VS2 for about $12k with almost any PS vendor. You didn''t really list anything about cut...so hard to say what''s good vs not. But in terms of price, you could get the stone for $12k elsewhere.

The setting maybe another $1500 or so in retail, the trillons at .30c each in a platinum setting. So say about $13500 if you bought this new ring anywhere else--maybe less if you negotiated a bit.

So is the slightly over $12k a real deal for this random Shenoa ring? To not even know what you are getting virtually? Not to mention, haven''t the Shenoa reviews on here in the past been not quite so favorable?

Personally, I say a big NO. I would just get your money back and build your own ring for the same price. I never understand how people can spend something like $12k and want to get a ''deal'' on soemthing they''ve never seen in real life OR seen anything other than ''here is a D VS 1.68c diamond in a setting''...doesn''t it look great. You need more info on a big purchase like this.

The first emerald cut sounded like a better ''deal'' because its huge compared to what they are offering you now. Just curious but how do you go from a 3.7c emerald cut to a 1.68 marquis? Not to mention the marquis is smaller but totally different stone size. Do you know what your girl wants? An emerald is not a marquis and what if she wants something more classic like a round?

My two cents.
 
Well... here''s a few things:

#1. those rings are as different as night and day by size and looks...

#2. 12k for the H-VVS ring would have been about a third of the expected cost for the same with GIA guarantee of grades - no way the grading coul have been close to reality. Actually, I am wondering at this point if that ring ever existed and was lost or the whole this is just a new breed of bait tactics - which would be quite gross, really.
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#3. Isthe new ring worth it ? Maybe, maybe not. At leat the GIA report says something about the center stone, but this is no longer such a ''deal''. It would be nice to know if the marquize stone is a nice one or not aside the known grades. Faults of cutting would make it less desirable than the cost implies. I would not give too much thought to the value of the setting since the quality of the side stones and workmanship is difficult to evaluate without a good look. Let''s say it would be about 1k to replace, although more is likely. It should not be the main argument in favor ofthis ''deal'' given how much more the main stone is worth...

The price is not unthinkable - actually, it took 1 minute to find several other such diamonds priced around 12k here. Try to search the pricescope database for: Marquise shape, 1.6–1.7 cts, D color, VS2 clarity, 56–80% depth, 51–80% table, GIA certified and 5-6 examples should turn up.

What are the stats on the GIA report of the stone you are receiving ? Just curious.

I would reject this offer out of principle unless the diamond is really something. And before that, I would try to check if the first ring even existed (perhaps ask for some document from the shipping company hat lost it ? Shenoa must have files a claim with their insurer or something). really, I have the worst feeling about this
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In the end...
well, these rings are so different: do you know if the recipient of the ring has any prefference ? If she likes emerald cuts, I would not consider marquizes a close substitute at all.

Just my 0.2, of course. Hope some of this helps.
 
Thanks for the reply, and yes, as I''ve become more educated in this process, I of course have concerns about buying sight unseen, from Shenoa, etc., though the GIA paper would tend to give me more confidence in this one. Yes, the emerald stone was huge in comparrison, and if it really was close to what they advertised, possibly worth well over 20K. My girl has stated emerald or marquise (either/or) with complimentary side stones, though I''ve heard emerald might be more highly valued in some circles. Besides the opinon on whether $12K is a reasonable deal for this ring, what are some of your general thoughts on emerald vs. marquise and the GIA paper itself vs. not having it?
 
don''t be fooled into thinking that there are not that many GIA stones out there. there are TONS. and AGS stones as well.

so the fact that this stone has a GIA cert doesn''t really say that much to me except that someone reputable graded color and clarity, but it says nothing about how well the stone is cut...do you even have a copy of the GIA report?

in my opinion, buying this blind and only having color/clarity/size is very foolish with this $$ amount.

so if one is graded and the other is not...again that''s not really the issue here for me. bottom line is that i think that this ''deal'' is much more not a deal as the first one could have been.
 
Date: 7/13/2005 4:08:27 PM
Author: robertm

Yes, the emerald stone was huge in comparrison, and if it really was close to what they advertised, possibly worth well over 20K.

make that 'over 30' and to match the price it should have been K-L VS at most. Definitely atinted stone in that size... Not that that's bad, calling it H-VVS is
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My girl has stated emerald or marquise (either/or) with complimentary side stones

cool. emeralds are a bit more popular I would think, but no diamond actually goes out of fashion, believe me.

Besides the opinon on whether $12K is a reasonable deal for this ring,

it is, ifthe marquize is an attractive stone with a good cut. Off proportions would push the price and value below what they sell it for (12-13k, as you say). Also, you might want to see if the stone might be damaged: it happens... and if it happened after certification the stone does not match the lab report anymore. Usually I would not even think of such stuff, but given the previous missrepresentation of the EC and several stories previously posted on this forum about Shenoa, I am acting deliberately paranoid here !
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what are some of your general thoughts on emerald vs. marquise

actually, I like both and these are my favorite cuts among the usual. I can understand your gir's choice for either one or another. My previous post sort of says otherwise, but then I didn't know her thoughts and the two shape are indeed very different.

... and the GIA paper itself vs. not having it?

without a major lab's paper or the personal ability to judge grades, I would ask for expert opinion to validate the seller's claim. Not because I care allot for the standard color grading, but because prices are based on it for better or worse.
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Best of luck
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A 3.74 H/VVS1 for $12k?????? put me down for 100!!!!!!!

Marquises: This shape is very difficult to get right.
too long, too fat, bad bowtie- it's soooo easy to find UGLY marquise diamonds- so make sure you at least get a good digital photo to see if the stone appeals to you.
 
This is a very fishy story:

a) There is no way they are going to sell a 3.74 H VVS-1 EC for $12k. These are not stupid people and they can easily get twice that. For whatever it''s worth, Rap is $53,800 on that stone alone.

b) I do grading for dealers on a regular basis. I can''t begin to tell you the world of crap I would be in if someone sent me a 3.74 VVS diamond and I *LOST* it! Gimme a break.

Take your money and run. This is pure bait and switch.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
 
They said the ring was lost/stolen when it was sent out for independent certification.
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BIG RED flag, as others have said far more eloquently already.

Seriously, don''t take the bait!
 
SMACK SMACK SMACK! That is the sound of me smacking you silly RobertM!
emfist.gif
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TAKE YOUR MONEY AND RUN!!!!!!!! Ever heard that phrase if it sounds too good to be ture it probably is?
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And TOTALLY Denver...bait and switch. Duh
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Get thee to a "real" vendor.

And LOL David, Yeah, I might take a few as well.
 
Extricate yourself form this "deal" as soon as possible. Get your money back. Work with a reputable vendor, either locally or onine, who actually tells you what you are getting.

Something is not right here... And it''s just not worth gambling with 12k.
 
I see red flags everywhere, run from this and don''t look back. Stick around on PS and you can build your own ring and not loose your shirt!!!!
 
What they all said. Run!

David, surprised you aren''t more offended that a fellow ebay seller is giving ebay sellers everywhere a bad name.

MMM - love the new avatar! When I go back to my insipidly cute Red Sox pics you can have Cow Bell if you want him!
 
LOL. I''ll definitely take the cow bell...''cause you know...WE NEED MORE COW BELL!
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OK, I get the "run from the Shenoa deal" message loud and clear, though since they are sending it overnight at their expense, and even paying for appraisal fee that I will have done here locally, I''ll probably at least see what the local GIA graduate has to say about $12K for the marquise. Any comments on the Diamonds by Lauren offering I mentioned. I see they are farily well regarded on this site, and the center stone is a GIA emerald 1.24, vs1, F; two vs1 F emerald side stones (totaling 1.26c) on the sides, in a platinum setting for $13,250. Like I said, I''m ready to line up my plan B, and will likely stick to a recommeded seller this time.
 
This bait and switch trick shows that obviously Shenoa is not honest. Please report them to ebay(AFTER you get your money back). Tell ebay you want them to honor their deal. If the emerald got lost in the mail tell them to go find you another one-they have them in their NYC store. Make sure you leave feedback explaining what happened so other customers will be warned.
 
Date: 7/13/2005 4:29:09 PM
Author: robertm
Seeing the reply by ''Diamonds by Lauren'', I should mention that I''m of course looking for a ''Plan-B'' should I return the Shenoa ring. I''ve looked at your site, and this ring in particular:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5012274674&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Would also like to know any other suggestions on similar rings (emerald first choice, marquise second), that could be purchased through a reputable PS dealer.
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There are several highly regarded vendors here at PS that could help you.

I''ve worked with David at Diamonds by Lauren a couple of times, and have been just thrilled. I trust him completely. That EC ring you linked is lovely.

Just for fun, here''s another ring they recently put together which I think is absolutely stunning...

widget

PS: I''d sure lean towards ECs over a marquise.
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They''re so classic! JMO

wgls.jpg
 
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That is just so dishonest. You need to make sure that they dont leave you negative feedback. Contact ebay and fwd them the emails explaing what happend. I wonder how many people they have taken that way
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Author: AChiOAlumna

I just tried to click on the link. Ebay removed the link and states to consider the transaction ''cancelled.'' Makes you wonder?!?!?!
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That''s odd...the link worked fine for me...
 
that DBL ring is beautiful!! i''d take that anyday over a random marquis.
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i, myself, am coveting a light yellow radiant 3 stone ring at some point in the future from them.
 
Date: 7/13/2005 6:43:39 PM
Author: widget
Author: AChiOAlumna
I just tried to click on the link. Ebay removed the link and states to consider the transaction 'cancelled.' Makes you wonder?!?!?!
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That's odd...the link worked fine for me...
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I had to load it in 3 times before it worked for me!! Odd?!?!

I agree that the DBL ring is beautiful and they are a very reputable dealer...I hope your ebay transaction is resolved successfully for you!!
 
I have total trust in David. His pieces are gorgeous and he knows what he''s talking about. I spoke with him while I was searching and even though I didn''t go with him, he was clearly someone to deal with. I only went another way because my fiance had already worked something out with a local jeweler that was a friend of a friend. The ring you posted from David''s site is absolutely stunning, she will be one happy girl!!!!! Good luck.
 
agreed -- WHY risk buying from shenoa
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when there are so many reputable jewelers to choose from?

i know the lure of getting a "great deal" can be tempting, but really, in most cases the fact is that you are going to get what you pay for.
 
One more post (just to confirm)...if the Shenoa factor was removed from the equation, is the general consensus that the marquise ring is worth about $13,500?

- Marquise cut Diamond 1.68 CT in the center (GIA certificate)
- Color: D
- Clarity: VS-2
- 2 Trillion Diamonds 0.60 CT total weight on sides.
- Color: D
- Clarity: VS-2
- Setting: Platinum

...and would an emerald cut (again, putting preferences between emerald and marquise aside) 2.04 c, H, SI1 EGL center stone with .70 matching baguette side stones in a platinum ring for $14,500 be considered a better value?
 
Date: 7/13/2005 8:16:54 PM
Author: reena
agreed -- WHY risk buying from shenoa
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when there are so many reputable jewelers to choose from?

i know the lure of getting a ''great deal'' can be tempting, but really, in most cases the fact is that you are going to get what you pay for.
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YEP !!!
 
Date: 7/13/2005 11:00:07 PM
Author: robertm
One more post (just to confirm)...if the Shenoa factor was removed from the equation, is the general consensus that the marquise ring is worth about $13,500?

...and would an emerald cut (again, putting preferences between emerald and marquise aside) 2.04 c, H, SI1 EGL center stone with .70 matching baguette side stones in a platinum ring for $14,500 be considered a better value?
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Errr... either sounds ok-ish if there are no issues and the pieces are both well made (both settings and stones). Neither sounds like a 'deal'.

EGL labs have different standards - aparently EGL-USA holds the highest satndard and other do not come close, so it does matter what EGL report is that for the emerald cut ring. Also, SI1 may not look clean in a step cut, and to what extent thisis true does affect the price.

Between the two, the marquise sounds better at this point: the lab report, the grades are better and given the shapes it probably is at least as large (size not weight, like these) as the emerald cut.

Is it worth asking an appraiser to help with this ? I am no expert
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Just to close the loop on this, I did receive the marquise ring with GIA papers to look at today:
Meas: 12.77 x 6.02 x 3.91 mm
Weight: 1.68 carat
Depth: 65.0%
Table: 51 %
Girdle: Thin to Thick, Faceted
Cutlet: None
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Clarity: VS2
Color Grade D
Fluorescense: None

To my naked eye, there would appear to be some yellow in a couple of spots, but I''m completely untrained...just would seem unusual to me for a D color. Shenoa''s own written appraisal says over 45K...again, would be purchase prices is above $12K.
 
You should see NO yellow at ALL in a D color, that sounds wacky to me. Honestly, this whole situation says one thing to me: "RUN AWAY, RUN RUN AWAY!!!!!" This is bait and switch, and you should be able to get something beautiful and CHOSEN BY YOU for that amount of money. I''d get the marquise sent back to them post haste--and get something you LOVE (EC or marquise or whatever) from a REPUTABLE seller. Seriously.

Good luck!
 
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