GIA HCA AGA OH MY!!!

[Ereeg]

First off, excellent resource you have going here. Immensely helpful.

I’m trying to find the best round diamond for a white gold solitaire setting.

I have 3 choices I’ve narrowed it down to at this point:

1) GIA 6312428819
1.42 I SI1 triple excellent HCA 1.7 AGA 2A

$7900

2) GIA 7296870738

1.3 H SI1 triple excellent HCA around 5 if I recall. AGA 1B

$8500

3) GIA 2317119113

1.5 I VS1 triple excellent HCA 5.6 AGA 1B. I haven’t seen this stone they are ordering in.

$7700

Diamon 1 and 2 are beautiful...to me. All of the diamonds were above 2a on AGA scale. Diamond 1 has a table of 61% so the spread is basically the same as larger diamond 3. I’m by far an expert, but can any of the experts here help at all deciphering between the HCA scale and the other scales and help with specs to assist me in selecting. Such a large purchase for me, makes me nervous.

Should I rule out 2 and 3 with HCA scales in the 5s despite triple ex GIA and solid AGA scores?

It’s hard to go back and forth between retailers with no side by side comparisons. I will not purchase online despite the savings-call me old fashioned! Am I in the ballpark of a good stone with excellent cut and brilliance/fire rankings based on numbers? Does medium fluorescence really help “whiten” a diamon (choice 3 I haven’t seen).

Thank you so much!!

 

[lovedogs]

Rule out anything with HCA above 2. And ask for IS/ASET images. Gia XXX doesn't guarantee an excellent stone.

Also, stick within these parameters:
Table: 54-57
Depth : 60-62.4
Crown angle: 34-35
Pav angle: 40.6-40.8

Edit. Buying in person can be tough. Are you near a crafted by infinity retailer, or close to Whiteflash or Brian Gavin?

 

[Ereeg]

Thanks for reply

Option 1) Is the only stone with HCA <2 (1.7)
But it’s out of parameters:

Table: 61
Depth: 59.7
Crown angle: 33
Pav angle: 41

Is this “way” far off in your experience or are we in the ballpark. I guess I’m asking am I going to see and notice the difference in this range vs the ideal range you provided? Price seems fair to me for 1.42 I SI1 $7900 with solitaire setting included.

Thanks!

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks for reply

Option 1) Is the only stone with HCA <2 (1.7)
But it’s out of parameters:

Table: 61
Depth: 59.7
Crown angle: 33
Pav angle: 41

Is this “way” far off in your experience or are we in the ballpark. I guess I’m asking am I going to see and notice the difference in this range vs the ideal range you provided? Price seems fair to me for 1.42 I SI1 $7900 with solitaire setting included.

Thanks!

I personally wouldn't buy it, especially with the table larger than the depth. I'm obviously not sure about your preferences and tastes, so it's hard to say.

Can I ask why you won't consider buying online? None of these options are great, and you could find something much better from a trusted vendor.

 

[Ereeg]

I wouldn’t buy a car sight unseen online, and this is more expensive than my first two cars. I like the support of local. The first option is diamonds direct who as I understand come closer to online prices than most brick and mortar.

 

[lovedogs]

I wouldn’t buy a car sight unseen online, and this is more expensive than my first two cars. I like the support of local. The first option is diamonds direct who as I understand come closer to online prices than most brick and mortar.

You aren't buying sight unseen though with all the zoomed in videos and technology. WF and HP diamonds will take lots of videos. Plus, free returns if you aren't happy. Im not saying that the price is the biggest issue. I think the quality is what you're not getting in person. I would strongly suggest reconsidering, or telling your jeweler that you want to stick to the above parameters and check HCA scores.

 

[Ereeg]

Yeah but say the ring is the wrong size (can’t ask without giving it way) and needs resizing, or what if you need it cleaned how long is turn around? I’m sure there are plenty of diamonds in the parameters mentioned(and thank you for that it’s what I needed) at retailers. I really like having a relationship with someone down the street. I went to my local options saying I looked online as I have, and they are working on price with me to get closer. Now I need to work on those parameters

 

[Ereeg]

Also, can someone explain why diamond one has a really solid HCA of 1.7 and is pretty darn far out of parameters? What would be the visual difference in viewing two side by side? Genuinely curious, and I find this fascinating, not questioning at all hope its not taken that way.

 

[OoohShiny]

One of the main aims of the HCA tool is to ascertain if the crown and pavilion angles work together - if they do not, the stone could leak light out the sides of the pavilion instead of reflecting it back to the viewer's eye, and the outer facets could not return light properly, which combined will make the centre of the stone look dark and the outer edge look dark. This means the stone will be dark instead of bright, and because the edges aren't reflecting, it will look smaller.

In stone 1, HCA under 2 indicates the angles work with each other. The stone is basically a 60/60 style, which has greater spread but the larger table and shallower crown means less opportunity for coloured 'fire' (dispersion) to take place, which means it will mostly produce white light return.

Whether you prefer coloured 'fire' or white light flashes is entirely personal choice and neither is necessarily best, although here on Pricescope forum many members like the 'superideals' from WF, BGD, CBI/HPD because they have angles that work extremely well, are cut to a high degree of facet placement accuracy, and provide a balance of white light return and coloured fire from edge to edge of the stone.


Don't forget 'a ring' is not one item - it is a metal shank/setting and (usually) one or more stones of whatever preferred variety. There is no reason you can't buy a superideal from a PS-recommended vendor and then have a local jeweller create a bespoke setting for it.

I did exactly that and saved quite literally thousands on equivalent colour/cut/clarity/carat size stones in precious metal settings sold over here. (All of which would not perform as well as the CBI diamond I went with.)

 

[lovedogs]

One of the main aims of the HCA tool is to ascertain if the crown and pavilion angles work together - if they do not, the stone could leak light out the sides of the pavilion instead of reflecting it back to the viewer's eye, and the outer facets could not return light properly, which combined will make the centre of the stone look dark and the outer edge look dark. This means the stone will be dark instead of bright, and because the edges aren't reflecting, it will look smaller.

In stone 1, HCA under 2 indicates the angles work with each other. The stone is basically a 60/60 style, which has greater spread but the larger table and shallower crown means less opportunity for coloured 'fire' (dispersion) to take place, which means it will mostly produce white light return.

Whether you prefer coloured 'fire' or white light flashes is entirely personal choice and neither is necessarily best, although here on Pricescope forum many members like the 'superideals' from WF, BGD, CBI/HPD because they have angles that work extremely well, are cut to a high degree of facet placement accuracy, and provide a balance of white light return and coloured fire from edge to edge of the stone.


Don't forget 'a ring' is not one item - it is a metal shank/setting and (usually) one or more stones of whatever preferred variety. There is no reason you can't buy a superideal from a PS-recommended vendor and then have a local jeweller create a bespoke setting for it.

I did exactly that and saved quite literally thousands on equivalent colour/cut/clarity/carat size stones in precious metal settings sold over here. (All of which would not perform as well as the CBI diamond I went with.)

This is a perfect compromise!

 

[kmoro]

Yeah but say the ring is the wrong size (can’t ask without giving it way) and needs resizing, or what if you need it cleaned how long is turn around? I’m sure there are plenty of diamonds in the parameters mentioned(and thank you for that it’s what I needed) at retailers. I really like having a relationship with someone down the street. I went to my local options saying I looked online as I have, and they are working on price with me to get closer. Now I need to work on those parameters

I appreciate what you’re saying about the local jeweller, but I can almost guarantee that you can do better with an online vendor. As for sizing or servicing, you’re talking about a few days without a ring as your determining factor to go local. Items shipped arrive overnight and it does not take long to resize.

There are not plenty of diamonds with ideal parameters at retailers - seriously, you’d be lucky to find them unless they are a Crafted by Infinity or similar (maybe HOF I can’t think of others?) dealer. If you do a google search, there are price comparison videos that show you can always get a better diamond for less online. When you consider overhead and tough economic times, the B&M stores just can’t afford to stock or sell ideal diamonds - their prices are barely market palatable with average diamonds. Plus, their store lighting will make their diamonds look great - just no reason to spend that kind of dollars on ideal diamond inventory that may sit for awhile and then try to explain the extra high cost to an uneducated consumer ... not wise for them at all.

Having said that, maybe your jeweller has access to the online diamond inventories. If that’s the case, then at least the jeweller might have a shot at bringing in a diamond with ideal parameters ... but the margin the local jeweller needs will still be higher.

Support of local business is admirable, but maybe buy necklaces there or something For this type of purchase, you’d be doing yourself more disservice than the jeweller good, imo.

I think the above suggestion of getting the diamond online and having your jeweller set it is fabulous! The best of both worlds!

 

[MarionC]

If you are going to buy locally just make sure you see the diamond in variety of lighting situations, including daylight. Most diamonds look great in the special and somewhat deceptive jewelry store lighting.

 

[skypie]

Buy a steam or ultrasonic cleaner so you can clean it at home. A local jeweler will still repair/resize a ring even if you don't buy it there.

 

[Ereeg]

Diamonds Direct I know has a large online inventory. I’m sure there are stones within the parameters recommended. Honestly their prices seem on par with online for very same specs. Has anyone dealt with Diamonds Dorect or Shane Co personally?

 

[Ereeg]

Of table, depth, crown angle, pavilion, which one of you HAD to compromise on would be the least impactful to overal diamond performance? Have to get those carats for the Mrs. The gal will notice size first I’m sure!! Ha.

 

[sstephensid]

Yeah but say the ring is the wrong size (can’t ask without giving it way) and needs resizing, or what if you need it cleaned how long is turn around? I’m sure there are plenty of diamonds in the parameters mentioned(and thank you for that it’s what I needed) at retailers. I really like having a relationship with someone down the street. I went to my local options saying I looked online as I have, and they are working on price with me to get closer. Now I need to work on those parameters

You can have local jewelers resize. I think you should have some idea of her ring regardless. You don’t want (or couldn’t in some styles) to order a 7 and resize down to a 4.

Your favorite local jeweler could close down or you could move and you’d be in the same exact position. And cleaning- you can clean at home and any jeweler will clean.

There can be perks of course to a local jeweler. But depending on availability and pricing, you will have to see if it’s worth it. Many can’t compete with the pricing and options of online vendors.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Of table, depth, crown angle, pavilion, which one of you HAD to compromise on would be the least impactful to overal diamond performance? Have to get those carats for the Mrs. The gal will notice size first I’m sure!! Ha.

Wrong! .The first thing the gal will notice is how well the diamond sparkles! . Size means nothing if the diamond doesn't perform.

 

[Ereeg]

Wrong! .The first thing the gal will notice is how well the diamond sparkles! . Size means nothing if the diamond doesn't perform.

Ha got me there. But I’m not talking about garbage stiles here. They sparkle, the idea I’m trying to get my head around is how much different to the average persons eye these are. I already have one on layaway but have months to change mind or cancel. I was worried posting here would get a lot of push to shop online, but it’s ok. I’ve looled more and the online are more expensive in the parameters suggested earlier than the stones I’m looking st in person. Plus no free classic setting

Does anyone have a good online stone they recommend sub $8500 that fits this spec? Thank you you might have me questioning store bought now, darn! I do have a couple months until I need it.

 

[pinklemonadegurl]

Whether you choose a local jeweler, or an online vendor(I have! many times with gorgeously sparkly results) We are currently in process of an engagement ring with Whiteflash from Michigan(me) to Texas(WF) and spending a lot LOT, and I feel completely comfortable with working via email, phone and video with Brittany. The tools mentioned here really do help you hone in on a great stone. And the wealth of knowledge from PSers has made my e-ring experience quite easy! Good luck to you in your search-she'll be thrilled

 

[Ereeg]

What are the thoughts on this stone?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6008667

Seems to be in PS paremeters and in the budget giving up some carat size here, ouch...

 

[OoohShiny]

Of table, depth, crown angle, pavilion, which one of you HAD to compromise on would be the least impactful to overal diamond performance? Have to get those carats for the Mrs. The gal will notice size first I’m sure!! Ha.

Table, depth, crown angle, pavilion angle... you can't compromise on any of those as they all work with each other to form the 'Cut'. If one is 'wrong', the rest won't work.

You *can* compromise on colour, clarity and carat size - if you have more of one, you have less of the others within a given budget. Think of it like a pie chart or a cake - have a bigger/better slice for one and you only have smaller slices left for the rest. And if you want bigger/better slices of the others as well, you need a bigger cake (i.e. budget)...

If your missus wants lots of size, you will have to drop in colour and clarity a bit. H is white to most people, and I or J will only have slight tint from the side. You can get good SI1 but they are harder to find - VS2 may need inspection but VS1 should be eye-clean. VVS and above will be eye-clean at all distances without a loupe.

 

[mchap]

Ha got me there. But I’m not talking about garbage stiles here. They sparkle, the idea I’m trying to get my head around is how much different to the average persons eye these are. I already have one on layaway but have months to change mind or cancel. I was worried posting here would get a lot of push to shop online, but it’s ok. I’ve looled more and the online are more expensive in the parameters suggested earlier than the stones I’m looking st in person. Plus no free classic setting

Does anyone have a good online stone they recommend sub $8500 that fits this spec? Thank you you might have me questioning store bought now, darn! I do have a couple months until I need it.

Hi, I wanted to share my experience buying my diamond and setting online a few weeks ago. For over a year, my husband and I shopped at many jewelers looking for the perfect diamond for our 40th. We wanted a high quality, high performing diamond that fell within what most would call 'ideal' parameters. All the jewelers said they could get this diamond but none really came through for me. They would get a diamond in and one of the parameters would be off. They would say things like 'it won't make a difference'. I never felt comfortable buying something so expensive on line and really felt I would never do it. I asked for help back in January from this forum and everyone with their sincere and great advice helped me find a beautiful diamond and setting. I was so anxious about the whole thing but got great reassurance from this forum and the vendor. The customer service I received from the vendor was 1000 times better than what I received in any of the jewelry stores. I was assigned a particular person who worked with me so closely, sending me videos, emails, talking on the phone. She assured me everything was insured until I received it. I had 30 days to return for a full refund, no questions asked. Don't get me wrong, some stores had great customer service, but for me they did not have these beautiful diamonds and really did not want to search for it. I went way out of my comfort zone and made the right decision for me. It was a great experience. My diamond is beautiful. (if you want to see my journey check out 'help with 40th'). Good luck!

 

[Ereeg]

Table, depth, crown angle, pavilion angle... you can't compromise on any of those as they all work with each other to form the 'Cut'. If one is 'wrong', the rest won't work.

You *can* compromise on colour, clarity and carat size - if you have more of one, you have less of the others within a given budget. Think of it like a pie chart or a cake - have a bigger/better slice for one and you only have smaller slices left for the rest. And if you want bigger/better slices of the others as well, you need a bigger cake (i.e. budget)...

If your missus wants lots of size, you will have to drop in colour and clarity a bit. H is white to most people, and I or J will only have slight tint from the side. You can get good SI1 but they are harder to find - VS2 may need inspection but VS1 should be eye-clean. VVS and above will be eye-clean at all distances without a loupe.

Great reply thank you and I love the pie chart analogy. I personally am not color sensitive and looking from the top I can’t tell a difference between G H and I. Most of the SI 1 I have seen in person I can only spot the inclusion with a loupe. Here I was thinking all of the triple excellent as rated by GIA in the diamond store were in fact excellent cut in proportion. This has really opened my eyes.

I’m probably going to be viewed as the difficult customer but I will have the two retailers that have already shown me multiple stones and ordered ones in for me to view, order some in if they have any in the set parameters given. If they tell me this is nonsense or don’t have those options I will take my business elsewhere. Meanwhile any help looking online in a review of the diamond posted above would be awesome!

 

[lovedogs]

What are the thoughts on this stone?

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6008667

Seems to be in PS paremeters and in the budget giving up some carat size here, ouch...

This one definitely has strong potential! I would ask JA for ASET/IS images (which help guarantee excellent performance). But this one is going to be much better than any of the ones from the local jeweler

 

[lovedogs]

Just as a reference, this is what an ideal ASET/IS should look like. And if you think your GF would be ok with I color, I would strongly consider this one. One of the most trusted vendors on here, and guaranteed to be an amazing performer.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4092178.htm

 

[OoohShiny]

Great reply thank you and I love the pie chart analogy. I personally am not color sensitive and looking from the top I can’t tell a difference between G H and I. Most of the SI 1 I have seen in person I can only spot the inclusion with a loupe. Here I was thinking all of the triple excellent as rated by GIA in the diamond store were in fact excellent cut in proportion. This has really opened my eyes.

I’m probably going to be viewed as the difficult customer but I will have the two retailers that have already shown me multiple stones and ordered ones in for me to view, order some in if they have any in the set parameters given. If they tell me this is nonsense or don’t have those options I will take my business elsewhere. Meanwhile any help looking online in a review of the diamond posted above would be awesome!

I'm glad we can help

Don't forget that vendors will probably need to pay to bring stones in - if nothing else, insuring $$$$$ stones during shipping will add up - and their owner/staff time will of course have a cost. To save both you and them time and money, you could ask them if they have a list to look through, from which you could identify potential GIA XXX stones that match your colour/clarity/carat size requirements. You could then run the GIA grading report numbers for the selected stones through the HCA tool under the Tools tab (you should have 999 free as a consumer, I believe) to check which have a score under 2 and are therefore potential candidates. While you're doing it, each result should also show the crown / pavilion / depth / table details somewhere on the page, meaning you can rule out those outside the PS-recommended parameters. Whatever you're then left with (if anything, lol) is worth a look.

Alternatively, you can plug your requirements into the search bar at the top of the forum, and when the listings come up, you can click on the Advanced settings button halfway down on the right to access the sliders for table etc., at which point you can enter the PS-recommended parameters to sift stones that are potential options. (You can also just click on the AGS000 option to quickly select AGS stones that should pretty much all hit PS-recommended parameters, I believe.) If you see stones you like, you could ask your jeweller if they can call them in (as IIRC most vendors should have access to most stones for sale worldwide). If they can call things in on this basis, you can use the listings to bargain on the price locally (so it could be worthwhile screenshotting listings in case they disappear when you call them in).

Of course, with the excellent Returns policies and generally good prices, you could always just order direct... lol

 

[Ereeg]

Ok, first off thanks everyone! I like the idea to see if the local shops have diamonds meeting the PS preferred specs.

For online I have these I’m now considering:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

This has a crystal on the face.

And the the James Allen I posted earlier

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6008667

The JA has a good sized feather, at least its light in the 10 o’clock.

I’m still running into not seeing these in person To see how noticeable they are with the naked eye. Any advice here? What do you like better??? Any other suggestions?

 

[_dracarys_]

Just a word about losing size for PS parameters...here is a side by side of my 1 ct, uncertified diamond we bought when we knew nothing about diamonds and my new PS parameter 0.3 ct diamond from James Allen. I gave up a ton of size to stay within my budget, but this little stone outperforms the bigger one in literally every way possible and this is not even a great picture.

 

[Ereeg]

Just a word about losing size for PS parameters...here is a side by side of my 1 ct, uncertified diamond we bought when we knew nothing about diamonds and my new PS parameter 0.3 ct diamond from James Allen. I gave up a ton of size to stay within my budget, but this little stone outperforms the bigger on in literally every way possible.

Wow. Just wow. Your new stone is so much better! Are the clarity and color on par with each other for both?

 

[_dracarys_]

Wow. Just wow. Your new stone is so much better! Are the clarity and color on par with each other for both?

I don't know what the specs of my original stone are to say for sure, but the new one is a K VS2 GIA XXX. I'd say my original is somewhere below an M and I1-2.