GIA grading scandal my take on it.

[strmrdr]

In the other thread "robbe" asked why no one has been raising a fuss about it.
In a very untypical strm fashion iv been talking to people before ranting :}

My first comment on it is that GIA needs to come clean on it and tell us what was involved and what happened.
I hope Garry is right and its limited to very few diamonds.

In the mean time I see no need to panic if you bought your diamond from a stocking dealer or had it called into a dealer who checks the color of the stone against the report grade and is trustworthy enough to be upfront about it or if you had an independent appraiser check it out.
I checked with the vendors that I recommend and also researched what they have had to say about the check in process for diamonds coming into stock in the past.

From the ones I contacted.
Brian @ www.whiteflash.com checks theres no worries there.
Jon @ www.goodoldgold.com checks his no worries there.
Wink @ www.winkjones.com checks his no worries there.
Gary @ www.diamondexpert.com checks his no worries there.

In all 4 cases from what they say and what I could find on the net its not a new thing and they check them regardless of which cert it is.

Todd @ www.niceice.com while i didn''t contact him. I know from past conversations that they check there also.

So overall my opinion at this point is wait and see on the overall picture out of GIA.
In the mean time if you bought from one of those vendors or had an independent appraiser check the diamond you should be aok.


Any other vendors feel free to post your policy and if any of the vendors want to tell more on how they handle diamonds coming in feel free.

 

[JohnQuixote]

There is an understandable 'backlash' of negative public perception about our profession-at-large when something like this occurs. Even those far removed and untouched by it are affected to some degree.

If GIA seeks to be restored to their preeminent position they will disclose everything. Since the 1930s they have been a highly respected entity. The way they handle this issue will speak volumes about their future. I hope this was limited to few diamonds and few dealers too, but if it wasn't so be it. Better that everything come out now than risk a future scandal about 'cover-up.' That's the noisiest of skeletons to lock in the closet.

No matter how things play out, the most negative thing was that this was even able to occur. The positive will be the cleansing and the safeguards in place for the future - not just for GIA - others are paying close attention.

By the way, I appreciate Strm making the effort to contact us privately for that clarification.

Author:strmrdr

In a very untypical strm fashion iv been talking to people before ranting :}

Yeah. That in itself is a scandal.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 11/26/2005 4:42:32 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Author:strmrdr

In a very untypical strm fashion iv been talking to people before ranting :}

Yeah. That in itself is a scandal.

StormGate

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 11/26/2005 4:53:53 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 11/26/2005 4:42:32 PM

Author: JohnQuixote

Author:strmrdr


In a very untypical strm fashion iv been talking to people before ranting :}

Yeah. That in itself is a scandal.

StormGate

LOL

 

[StevL]

I think if you do your homework this isn''t the first time that GIA was suspect, and I think more than a few stones will come out of this. I can''t imagine someone asking for a report to be changed on a 10 carat stone without first becoming very comfortable getting some 1ct, then 2ct, etc. changed.

This is the problem with buying paper on the net and a big time problem with sellers not seeing the diamonds they are selling. Simply brokering stones sight unseen.

I have rejected a lot of diamonds based on what they actually look like when compared to the report. Nothing new here and I''m sure for the people that buy diamond inventory.

 

[devientdrow]

I''ll let Jim(www.jamesallen.com www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com) respond to this should he want to but in talking to him about our diamond I know that he told me the certs and checked over the diamond as well. When we got to see him he had ours (a GIA) and another to compare it to (AGS) and we really went through everything together and it all matched up. I''m guessing all the reputable dealers on here do the same so everyone who has purchased through them don''t have that much to worry about.

 

[oldminer]

There is litigation in process, so defendants and plaintiffs will have little to say until the situation is resolved. They need to try this matter or attempt to settle it within our legal system BEFORE they make everything open to everyone else. It cannot be settled in public right away as much as some would like it. If your business had a "problem" that you wished to resolve, you''d also want to do it ethically and legally if at all possible. No doubt, there are people who would love to get it all out in the open, but the warring parties must conclude the legalities first. It is best that way.

Honest dealers never misrepresent a diamond. The dishonest ones who abused their trusted positions in a the industry will pay a heavy price financially and also with loss to their once decent reputations. The GIA will pay for its apparent laxity in money and in reputation too most likely. People who buy nrmal diamonds from dealers here have nothing to fear. Dealers are not out to do you in. They make a small profit and go on to the next client. The last thing they need is a scandalous reputation.

I''d like to see full disclosure someday. It would make a good book. I believe we''ll need to be patient.

 

[mepearl53]

Over the years I have seen diamonds come into the store with the incorrect certs. Human error and they accidentally got the stones switched by not following procedure. I''ve measured table percentages with those little hand held transparent MM prints and totally disagreed with what the lab said it was. Leverage gauge readings that did not match the certs but matched the inscriptions. So many discrepancies but who am I to argue with the labs that taught me. Trust is a huge thing in the industry and it is hands on. And now they are talking about fake certs circulating along with the GIA problem. Hopefully this is a wake up call for the industry and consumers. You don''t have to be scared away from the grading. Just make sure it is correct. This is not a hard thing to do but just reading a report or scan does not make legitimate the grading process. If someone who is a expert in the business does not personally see the diamond and verify the stone before presenting it walk.

 

[StevL]

mepearl53... Ditto!

And how do you know they actually looked at it? Visit them and you both can look at it. Trust is a very big word and once violated it is hard to earn back.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have questioned GIA greades on clarity more often than most other labs.
I have a theory why:

I think the gIA greaders (and teaching) is overly reliant on microscope grading. Because this is done with strong darkfield back lighting it makes some stones appear quite different to the loupe grade that an experianced and commonsense grader would give. This is my experiance for VS2 and SI1 grades.

I do not think microscopes are of much benefit for these grades.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 12/20/2005 6:20:36 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I have questioned GIA greades on clarity more often than most other labs.
I have a theory why:

I think the gIA greaders (and teaching) is overly reliant on microscope grading. Because this is done with strong darkfield back lighting it makes some stones appear quite different to the loupe grade that an experianced and commonsense grader would give. This is my experiance for VS2 and SI1 grades.

I do not think microscopes are of much benefit for these grades.

We used microscopes at GIA in the early 1970''s to grade stones and were taught this way. It also helped to spot inclusions faster than a loupe but we would confirm with a loop. I still use a scope today because my older eyes can''t see things as well as I used to. But, I will say I believe that grading standards have been relaxed about a half a grade and do not know why or if I could prove it either.

 

[StevL]

Bill,
I would have to agree with you. The SI1 of the 70''s era is different than those I see today. Some times it seems a rather big difference. Wish I still had some of those 70''s stones...