GIA Cert From The 80s...

[ladyl]

Last weekend I went to visit my jeweller who said that there was a round brilliant that I might like... She knows that I am actually shopping around for either a cushion cut, oval or radiant but still... Anyway, I saw it and thought that it looked beautiful... The Specs:

1.73ct Round Brilliant
Colour: H
Clarity:VS1
Table:62%
Depth:59.9%
Polish: Good
Sym: Good
Cutlet: None
Flour: None
Size: 7.78 x 7.84 x 4.68
Date of Cert: 1986

My Concern:

1) I wanted at worst a G colour, but this is a H colour... Couldn''t really see any difference between a G and the H when we compaired them side by side out in the sunlight and in the shop... Is this comparison good enough...?

2) The table is a shocking 62%

But the diamond did look big, really brilliant and glittery

out in the sun and especially in the shop?? She also did mention that there was no fisheye effect etc...

3) The GIA cert was dated 1986??!!??

Is that something I should worry about? She said that I shouldn''t worry about that as long as the diamond looks good and performs as it should...??

There was no info on the crown angle or pavillion angle due to age of cert...

It did look good... I don''t know what posessed me, I put a reserve on it...

 

[belle]

Date: 7/17/2007 12:23:20 PM
Author:ladyl

1) I wanted at worst a G colour, but this is a H colour... Couldn''t really see any difference between a G and the H when we compaired them side by side out in the sunlight and in the shop... Is this comparison good enough...?

all that matters is that you like it. if you are comfortable with that comparison, that is all you need.

Date: 7/17/2007 12:23:20 PM
Author:ladyl

2) The table is a shocking 62%

But the diamond did look big, really brilliant and glittery

out in the sun and especially in the shop?? She also did mention that there was no fisheye effect etc...

if you are going to wear your diamond in the sun a lot, or especially in the shop, this may be a good choice for you.

Date: 7/17/2007 12:23:20 PM
Author:ladyl

3) The GIA cert was dated 1986??!!??

Is that something I should worry about? She said that I shouldn''t worry about that as long as the diamond looks good and performs as it should...??

There was no info on the crown angle or pavillion angle due to age of cert...

an explanation of why the grading report was so old (21 years!!?? TWENTY ONE!) would have been appropriate. passing off your concerns isn''t cool.

i''d suggest taking some more time to really decide if this is what you want. you weren''t even looking for a round!

 

[curiopotter]

I wouldn''t worry about the cert, I mean really, maybe someone just decided to upgrade their old diamond, and their shop happened to buy it from them and were able to keep the original certification.

 

[ladyl]

Thanks Belle! I know what you mean... I don''t know if it''s just me, I see something I kind of like, a bit of sales talk and that''s it! I have to have it! Then when I go back and think hard about it... it wasn''t what I was originally looking for... Sigh!

She said that the boss was a gemologist... He should be able to give me the crown angle and pavillion angle if I ask him (for me to check with the HCutAdvisor)? Do you think that''s too much to ask...?

The age of the cert... I''m beyond words...

Is $14500 reasonable for this diamond?

Thanks!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 7/17/2007 1:25:29 PM
Author: curiopotter
I wouldn''t worry about the cert, I mean really, maybe someone just decided to upgrade their old diamond, and their shop happened to buy it from them and were able to keep the original certification.

That is exactly what I was thinking...

 

[Skippy123]

use this tool to let you know if you are getting a good deal or not.
https://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx

 

[ladyl]

Would $14500 be a reasonable amount for this diamond then since it's not 'brand new'? Is that something I should worry about? Or is it normal practice? Or should I sharpen my knife and start some major price slashing??!!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 7/17/2007 1:34:09 PM
Author: ladyl
Would $14500 be a reasonable amount for this diamond then since it''s not ''brand new''? Is that something I should worry about? Or is it normal practice?

Diamonds are millions of years old. There''s nothing about diamonds that are brand new! I would just examine it with a loupe and make sure there are no chips, etc. Otherwise, no I wouldn''t expect a discount...

 

[ladyl]

Actually the reason why that came to my mind was because the sales person told me that they do future upgrades etc... But they will only buy back a GIA certified diamond for 60% of the price that I paid for... That''s like 40% off!! Scary!

 

[chrono]

In that case, I'd take my business elsewhere. Most jewellers will buy back their diamonds for the full sale price when you upgrade with them. If not originally purchased from them, the jeweller will normally offer around 60% or so for a certified stone.

ETA
Are you upgrading your stone that your purchased from this place or was it originally from elsewhere? If from elsewhere, then I'd say you were offered a reasonable price.

 

[ladyl]

Date: 7/17/2007 1:33:48 PM
Author: Skippy123
use this tool to let you know if you are getting a good deal or not.

https://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx

Thanks Skippy123, I tried it since sat... but no similar diamond found... furthermore with the ancient GIA cert, there''s no cut grade specified...

 

[ladyl]

Date: 7/17/2007 1:48:14 PM
Author: Chrono
In that case, I''d take my business elsewhere. Most jewellers will buy back their diamonds for the full sale price when you upgrade with them. If not originally purchased from them, the jeweller will normally offer around 60% or so for a certified stone.


ETA

Are you upgrading your stone that your purchased from this place or was it originally from elsewhere? If from elsewhere, then I''d say you were offered a reasonable price.

Nope... It''s gonna be my 1st time buying from this place. I wouldn''t be trading in anything to buy this diamond.

 

[chrono]

Here''s what I found:
1.624 G SI1 AGS0 $12,888
1.625 G VS2 AGS0 $16,547

Let''s take into account the stone is larger, colour is one grade down, clarity is better: 1.73 H VS1 GIA, cut quality not AGS0
I would say the price is reasonable for a B&M store due to their added overhead cost. For an online store, it''ll be pricey.

 

[belle]

Date: 7/17/2007 1:34:09 PM
Author: ladyl
Would $14500 be a reasonable amount for this diamond then since it''s not ''brand new''? Is that something I should worry about? Or is it normal practice? Or should I sharpen my knife and start some major price slashing??!!

no diamond is ''brand new'' so to speak but you should be assured with a new grading report that there was no damage done to the diamond in the last TWENTY ONE years since it was graded. you are paying the same price as a diamond that has been recently graded, you should get that assurance that it is what it is (was!?)

 

[ladyl]

Date: 7/17/2007 1:10:48 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/17/2007 12:23:20 PM

Author:ladyl


2) The table is a shocking 62%

But the diamond did look big, really brilliant and glittery

out in the sun and especially in the shop?? She also did mention that there was no fisheye effect etc...

if you are going to wear your diamond in the sun a lot, or especially in the shop, this may be a good choice for you.

No I wouldn't be wearing my diamond out in the sun a lot.. Mostly indoors (house/home), restaurants, nights out etc... Will that be a problem in the performance of the diamond? What's the min recommended test I should do in the shop to make sure the diamond looks good in other lightings too?

When I mentioned my concern about the table size. She also said that table 62% was within the range of a lazar diamond...?

 

[Nicrez]

You can posit that you won''t consider the stone unless they recert it. They should absorb the cost of it, and generally most people do. They may say no, because they CLEARLY are trying to save money by NOT getting it recertified. Bring up the fact that in those years between the stone could have been switched or chipped, or even a feather or something may have gotten worse with setting and re-setting or wear and tear. I would expect a bit of abrasion on the facet junctions, which could lower the polish grade.

In the end, it''s not a terrible price really. The market for such a stone is competitive. Well cut in this color and clarity is actually not reduced from RAP prices very much, if AT ALL. I suggest trying your best to get a better price based on the cert. Getting one at GIA should cost about $150 or so. It''s per carat and likely it''s cheaper. I don''t know what an individual pays, but you can call GIA and ask. it does take a month or more. They will say less, but between you and me, I was quote 2-3 business days for a rush order I had and I got it almost a month later...

But a stone with an old cert is not uncommon, it just means they likely had it as a trade-in and it''s new to them but didn''t have time to recert, or are trying to get you to buy it without, to save the time and trouble. Again, base your purchase on the GIA coming back as the same or no deal. A recert should be cheaper actually, and should be quicker, but not sure when it''s that old...


Good luck!

 

[belle]

Date: 7/17/2007 2:07:51 PM
Author: ladyl

Date: 7/17/2007 1:10:48 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/17/2007 12:23:20 PM

Author:ladyl


2) The table is a shocking 62%

But the diamond did look big, really brilliant and glittery

out in the sun and especially in the shop?? She also did mention that there was no fisheye effect etc...

if you are going to wear your diamond in the sun a lot, or especially in the shop, this may be a good choice for you.

No I wouldn''t be wearing my diamond out in the sun a lot.. Mostly indoors (house/home), restaurants, nights out etc... Will that be a problem in the performance of the diamond? What''s the min recommended test I should do in the shop to make sure the diamond looks good in other lightings too?

diamonds perform very different in different lighting conditions. in my experience, diamonds that sparkle really well in bright lights (sunlight, jewelry stores, etc) will not do so well in the everyday conditions (house, office...). of course, if you are outside in the sun a lot, a diamond that looks killer outside might be the one to choose!
really, the only thing you can do in the jewelry store is make sure that the diamond is ''alive'' with sparkle. you''ll know it when you see it.

 

[ladyl]

Thanks Nicrez for the advice.

But what if they come up with something like... "It''s new, it''s just been sitting in our safe all this time, no one bought it..." I would be totally stunned and speachless...

 

[curiopotter]

It''s a possibility, however unlikely. I would still take Nicrez''s advice and ask to get it recertified if they''ll absorb the cost.

Honestly, if they tell you that, I''d ask how long they''ve been in business at that address. If it''s less than 23 years, you''ll know it was since moved from their vault at one point or another.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I wouldn't like that trade-in policy at all. I think that table is a little large and I'd want at least very good on polish and symmetry. I got an excellent cut hearts and arrows 1.63 H VS1 for close to $14,000, so I think that one sounds overpriced. I'd want it to have excellent cut for that price. If I ever decide I want a different diamond, my vendor gives a 100% trade-in value. I'd recommend doing some comparision shopping on the Good Old Gold and WhiteFlash sites.

Ironically, I just looked and Good Old Gold has a 1.63 H VS1 right now! It's not mine, but it is close to it's twin!

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3269/

 

[denverappraiser]

Recert on that stone will cost them $110. That’s less than 1% of their asking price. The reason they haven’t done it may be the money but I sort of doubt it. I’m guessing that it’s fear…Fear of the new cut grading system and/or fear that it’ll get a lower grade than what’s currently reported. Either way, they should do it. Even if you don’t buy it, the next guy will probably balk at the same thing and they can solve it for $110. In the worst case they can simply discard the new report if they don't like it (which may have already happened and is the real reason behind this). Gosh, if it’s been in the safe for 21 years then the time required can’t be the problem. Even GIA isn’t that slow.

60% of the purchase price towards a future tradein is a pretty weak trade up program.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[ladyl]

Thanks everyone! Actually, that''s my fear too... cos in a way, I really did like it when I was in the shop... It''s just that I know that the lightings in these places usually make all their diamonds look really glittery and shiny so I really do prefer a confirmation in print that this particular piece will perform... Do you think it''s a good idea that if all else fails, I get her boss to give me the crown and pavillion angle (she says he''s a gemologist) then use the HCA to see if it''s a good diamond...?

Wow diamondseeker2006 your diamond looks stunning! Actually the reason why I didn''t go for a H&A was cos I decided to sacrifice on quality for size...

BTW Neil (denverappraiser), is it true that a high % of GIA diamonds from the 80s get a lower grade now when sent for the recert...? Or worse 100%??

 

[denverappraiser]

Actually, usually it goes the other direction on clarity and color. They seem to have been a bit harsher in the 80’s than they are now but a significant majority will be unchanged. They didn’t do cut grading then so there’s nothing to change.

Getting the crown and pavilion angles is mostly a matter of having the right tools, no so much a gemology diploma and they''re a little on the expensive side so not every store has it. If he doesn''t have the right equipment, he may know someone else who does.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[ladyl]

Thanks Neil! Suddenly a GIA cert from the 80s doesn''t seem so bad afterall...
Thanks Everyone for all your help and suggestions! I''ll go with the flow and see what happens this sat! Will keep everyone updated! Thanks again!