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GIA cert came in very weak - should I ask them to redo?

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ddcha

Shiny_Rock
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Mar 25, 2009
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170
I have a 1.03ct RB EGL certified F VS1 stone.

When I bought it several years ago, I went to get it appraised by a GIA trained appraiser. Didn''t show them any documentation but wanted to see how they graded it. They said F VS2. Being off on clarity a little was to be expected because I know that EGL tends to grade softer.

But I recently submitted the stone to get a GIA cert and they came back with an F SI2 rating!!! I thought that this had to be a mistake. Any words of wisdom or advice on this please? thanks in advance.
 

girlie-girl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
819
My initial reaction is to say that a GIA trained appraiser isn't the same as the GIA grading lab. I'd be more likely to trust the actual grading lab's opinion over that of the appraiser. I'm not too surprised the clarity came back two grades lower, I think that's pretty common when the original grading report was done by EGL. I am a bit surprised however that the color grade didn't change as well, as they often do. I am doubtful that it would do any good to resubmit to GIA for another assessment, but others may disagree.
 

ddcha

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
170
Date: 4/16/2009 9:11:41 AM
Author: girlie-girl
My initial reaction is to say that a GIA trained appraiser isn''t the same as the GIA grading lab. I''d be more likely to trust the actual grading lab''s opinion over that of the appraiser. I''m not too surprised the clarity came back two grades lower, I think that''s pretty common when the original grading report was done by EGL. I am a bit surprised however that the color grade didn''t change as well, as they often do. I am doubtful that it would do any good to resubmit to GIA for another assessment, but others may disagree.
I understand that, but this came in 3 notches below the original EGL report which has it as VS1.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
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24,427
Date: 4/16/2009 9:22:35 AM
Author: ddcha

I understand that, but this came in 3 notches below the original EGL report which has it as VS1.
Unfortunately, this is not unheard of with some EGL stones. (is weird the color stayed the same)
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,813
Lots of people have been trained by GIA. In fact, most of the workers at EGL are GIA graduates and, by the way, they employ some very sharp folks. A significant majority of the people in the US who call themselves gemologists have some GIA training and I suspect this is even true worldwide even though they are far from the only choice for gemological education. I don't recall ever seeing a business that calls itself a gem lab that didn't include at least some GIA credentials among the staff. If the grading question being asked here is ‘What would GIA call it?’, you have your answer. Why are you assuming that it’s GIA that’s wrong? It’s always possible that they made a mistake and, if so they will happily correct it, but it’s worth bearing in mind that they do have a fee for recheck services and I would suggest getting a higher level of confidence that they’re wrong before you spring for the money to challenge them. You risk throwing good money after bad.

This is the reason to choose your grader/lab carefully. Just because they call themselves a lab or an appraiser or a gemologist, or just because they or some of their employees are a graduate of a particular school does not make them reliable nor does it make them wrong. How confident are you in your chosen appraiser? That seems to be the linchpin of your assumption. Do you trust them enough to bet the GIA fees on their accuracy? Have you spoken to the appraiser about it yet?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

ddcha

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
170
Date: 4/16/2009 10:10:49 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Lots of people have been trained by GIA. In fact, most of the workers at EGL are GIA graduates and, by the way, they employ some very sharp folks. A significant majority of the people in the US who call themselves gemologists have some GIA training and I suspect this is even true worldwide even though they are far from the only choice for gemological education. I don''t recall ever seeing a business that calls itself a gem lab that didn''t include at least some GIA credentials among the staff. If the grading question being asked here is ‘What would GIA call it?’, you have your answer. Why are you assuming that it’s GIA that’s wrong? It’s always possible that they made a mistake and, if so they will happily correct it, but it’s worth bearing in mind that they do have a fee for recheck services and I would suggest getting a higher level of confidence that they’re wrong before you spring for the money to challenge them. You risk throwing good money after bad.

This is the reason to choose your grader/lab carefully. Just because they call themselves a lab or an appraiser or a gemologist, or just because they or some of their employees are a graduate of a particular school does not make them reliable nor does it make them wrong. How confident are you in your chosen appraiser? That seems to be the linchpin of your assumption. Do you trust them enough to bet the GIA fees on their accuracy? Have you spoken to the appraiser about it yet?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
thanks for your thorough reply. the recheck is $50 if they come out the same, no charge if they end up changing it. I guess my question is really this: How rare is it for GIA to change its grades on a recheck, and how subjective/prone to error or opinion is the clarity of the stone?
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,813
From what I’ve seen, they hardly ever change. This statistic is surely a closely held secret.

Don't forget to include 2 directions of shipping unless you happen to live in sunny Carlsbad or NYC. These you don't get back even if you're right.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,396
Date: 4/16/2009 9:22:35 AM
Author: ddcha

Date: 4/16/2009 9:11:41 AM
Author: girlie-girl
My initial reaction is to say that a GIA trained appraiser isn''t the same as the GIA grading lab. I''d be more likely to trust the actual grading lab''s opinion over that of the appraiser. I''m not too surprised the clarity came back two grades lower, I think that''s pretty common when the original grading report was done by EGL. I am a bit surprised however that the color grade didn''t change as well, as they often do. I am doubtful that it would do any good to resubmit to GIA for another assessment, but others may disagree.
I understand that, but this came in 3 notches below the original EGL report which has it as VS1.
look at it this way...luckily it come back F and not G SI2. which EGL lab was the original report from?
 

DiamondFlame

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
680
Ditto that bit of luck on F color. It could have been a G or H even. How about a shot of the GIA Grading report? They usually include the locations of the inclusions in the plot diagram. And what does GIA say under 'comments' on 'Clarity'?
 

LadyBlue

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,616
Well, GIA is not always right, a friend of mine send a stone coming back as an F VS1, after a while she lost her certificate, so she send her stone to GIA again, and the stone come back being a E VS2


We have to remember that it''s actually people that grade the stones, so sometimes can the answer can be different.
 

DiamondFlame

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
680
Date: 4/16/2009 1:51:38 PM
Author: gaby06
Well, GIA is not always right, a friend of mine send a stone coming back as an F VS1, after a while she lost her certificate, so she send her stone to GIA again, and the stone come back being a E VS2


We have to remember that it's actually people that grade the stones, so sometimes can the answer can be different.
Exactly. And people do get PO'd if their judgment is called into question.

"You're right. We did make a mistake earlier. Your stone is actually a H/SI2."
 

RBD hunter

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
46
It all comes down to communication with all parties involved (even then) getting things done right the first time may not happen.
 
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