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Getting a diamond appraised..

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Jorge18

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
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How''s it going guys?

I have a quick question for you. I''m getting my diamond and setting from WhiteFlash. My question is should I get the diamond appraised before it gets placed on the setting? or should I wait till I get the complete ring and then get it appraised?

Thank in advance!
 
How compulsive are you?
 
Not that much lol

I just don''t want to get ripped off!
 

Jorge,


As a customer, but more, as a close reader here for several years...I can tell you a) you won''t get ripped off, and b) your process will be easier to wait until after set. But, it''s a helpful thing to do after...especially if you use a good appraiser. Who do you have in mind?


See upper right for recommendations, under resources...and also, note there''s good ones who write here a lot. Mainly, you''ll want effective documentation for insurance. WF are good guys.

 
I''m going to use Joseph W. Tenhagen, which is one of the apprasiers I found here on PriceScope.
 
Rich Sherwood in Sarasota has casually recommended him, I see, which is good enough for me, and I''d bet he''d do a fine job.
 
I am in this exact situation. I just purchased an ACA princess from Whiteflash but I haven''t decided on a setting yet. I, naturally, feel that I should get an appraisal before the 10 day return period but I know I''ll need another one after the diamond is set. I already have an appointment for Tuesday. I''m planning on getting a Vatche x-prong and the jeweler that I''m thinking of going to said they''ll do an appraisal, free of charge, after the stone is set. I just don''t know if I should trust them since they''re the one''s that will do the setting and if something is screwed up, they''re biased to say otherwise. Man, I never thought buying a ring would be such a pain.
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Surgeon,

You should get an independent appraisal after, consistent with the concerns you expressed. If you''ve determined already to have the appraisal before setting...it''s typical the appraisal will give you a discount for a second visit. Some may do the second virtually gratis...but note... you do want included in the appraisal the ring holding the diamond. In your case, you might have him hold up the write up till after visit #2. Take advantage of the independent appraiser for both sides, I''d say.
 
Regular Guy,

Quite right you are. After calling back the appraiser, he told me that my concern is very common. He said that it was a good idea to look at the stone before it''s mounted because it''s better to see absolutely everything without a setting. He said it''s normal to have an appraisal before and after the setting. When people do this, there''s normally a two step process to the appraisal, once before and once after. This makes me feel much better knowing I won''t be paying twice as much just because I''m covering my bases. The guy I''m using is Jeff Averbrook in Massachusetts. I got him from the resources section. Thanks for the help.
 
‘Free’ appraisals can turn out to be very expensive if you ever need to file an insurance claim so I would look over what they give you and decide if it meets your purpose. In the case of a loss, an insurance replacement type appraisal will serve as the purchase order for the replacement. That is to say that the insurance company will look at the descriptions, photographs and documentation provided by YOU when you start the contract and will use that to find the cheapest replacement they can find that will meet those specs. The bottom line value is the maximum limit of liability, not the expected limit. It’s not the company that should be picky, it’s you. Your insurance policy is likely to cost you between 1-3% of the declared value every year for as long as you own the policy so it’s almost as expensive as the item in the first place and reducing the value of that by saving a few bucks on the appraisal may not be in your best interest.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
 
I just had a loose stone from Whiteflash appraised. We had the stone sent to the appraiser so that we could see it and another stone before purchasing one of them. The appraiser ended up appraising the diamonds with FF and I (he walked us through the process) so that we could make a good decision about which stone to buy. I highly recommend appraising a loose stone because I am now very confident about my choice and there will be no surprises in the future. I think that the appraisal of the stone is also more accurate if the stone is loose. The appraiser said that after the stone is set, he''ll take pictures of the ring and complete my paperwork for insurance purposes.

Maybe you can find an appraiser that will work with you throughout the process.
 
I''d highly recommend doing an appraisal before the setting. I recently bought a diamond from Blue Nile and it appraised almost 25% under what I paid. Per their return policy, I would have not been able to return the diamond if it had been set. Sure you are spending a little more if you do two appraisals, but in my (limited) experience, it is proving well worth it.
 
Hey Texas,

Would we know your appraiser?

No offence...and though people here frequently are not in love with BN...most here probably like them.

Without knowing more...I might be inclined to think your appraiser was wrong.

More info please?
 
I''ve had my diamond for 4 years, and it''s insured CURRENTLY with just the jewlery store''s appraisal and the GIA certificate. But I''m re-setting this month and Neil Beaty (denverappraiser) will be appraising my unmounted diamond before it''s sent to Ocean the designer making my setting, and then Neil will get the ring after after it''s all finished and the diamond set, for a complete insurance appraisal of the total ring. SO I personally think that its important to have diamond looked at loose (which is why I haven''t paid for a professional independant appraisal before now, didn''t want to unmount my stone) and then when set. Both to appraise total value, but an appraiser can tell you about your setting too... the quality of the workmanship, if there are diamonds, how secure they are set... etc. All important things to know in terms of durability.
 
I found the appraiser listed here on PS and also found posts recommending them. I thought they were very professional and gave me an honest assessment. I too was very suprised at their assessment, but I don't have any reason to think they would be wrong and would definitely recommend them. I withheld the name of the appraiser since this is a public forum.

Here are the specs:

GIA Cert. Cushion Brilliant
1.50 - Very Good Cut - 7.48 x 6.36 x 4.27 mm
Color - D
Clarity - VS1
Depth - 67.1%
Table - 59%
Symmetry - Good
Polish - Very Good
Girdle - Thick to extremely thick, faceted
Cutlet - Small
Fluorescence - None
Length/Width Ratio - 1.18

The feedback I received was that with crown angles greater then 40 degrees coupled with the depth, the diamond should have been in the 1.2 to 1.3 carat range, but was cut to push it to be in the 1.5 carat price point.

It's a beautiful stone and my intention was never to profit from it in any way, but I also don't want to lose money right off the bat.
 
Texas, your appraiser may not have been wrong, but he may have appraised the ring at what Blue Nile paid for it and not at it''s retail value. For example, my appraiser openly told me that (from his calculations) Whiteflash is charging me 10% more than they paid for the stone (I''m cool with that). The retail/B&M price that he quoted, however, is a few thousand more than I paid. Does this make sense?
 
It does, thanks for the explaination. The appraiser strongly recommended returning it saying I could get better value for my money and price range, so I think I am going to go the B&M route and see what they can do.
 
Date: 8/30/2007 5:08:14 PM
Author: TexasDomer
I'd highly recommend doing an appraisal before the setting. I recently bought a diamond from Blue Nile and it appraised almost 25% under what I paid.
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm surprised. That sure runs contrary to my experience with Blue Nile stones.

I guess it's possible, but surprising nonetheless.
 
Date: 8/30/2007 5:53:20 PM
Author: TexasDomer
I found the appraiser listed here on PS and also found posts recommending them. I thought they were very professional and gave me an honest assessment. I too was very suprised at their assessment, but I don't have any reason to think they would be wrong and would definitely recommend them. I withheld the name of the appraiser since this is a public forum.

Here are the specs:

GIA Cert. Cushion Brilliant

1.50 - Very Good Cut - 7.48 x 6.36 x 4.27 mm

Color - D

Clarity - VS1

Depth - 67.1%

Table - 59%

Symmetry - Good

Polish - Very Good

Girdle - Thick to extremely thick, faceted

Cutlet - Small

Fluorescence - None

Length/Width Ratio - 1.18

The feedback I received was that with crown angles greater then 40 degrees coupled with the depth, the diamond should have been in the 1.2 to 1.3 carat range, but was cut to push it to be in the 1.5 carat price point.

It's a beautiful stone and my intention was never to profit from it in any way, but I also don't want to lose money right off the bat.
Click to expand...

I don't see anything out of the norm in those specs for a cushion cut.

The depth is very good, nothing wrong there. Thick to extremely thick girdles are very common on cushion cuts, and are usually not deal breakers. The table width and table to depth relationship is excellent, indicating a stone probably lively in performance, and steep crown angles are pretty common with cushion cut stones, again not usually a deal breaker.

The length, width, depth and surface diameter of the stone are all what I would expect from a well cut 1.50 carat cushion cut, and it would be difficult to gain 20 to 30 points in weight with just an increase in crown angle. For example, on a stone with these measurements there would be only about a 5 to 6 point increase in weight in going from 35 to 40 degree crown angles.

Who furnished the "greater than 40 degree" comment, GIA or the appraiser? I'd be curious as to what the crown height and pavilion depth were on the stone. Perhaps one of them was the deal killer.

Was it Blue Nile that supplied the "very good" cut grade term? I would have to say that my first impression by the numbers is that this cut would be "very good" as well.

I don't usually like to second guess another appraiser, but I just had to comment after seeing that the numbers don't seem to support the assessment. And you mentioned that the stone was "beautiful"...

"25% less than what Blue Nile charged" certainly makes them look bad on a public forum. Do you mind if I ask how much it was appraised for?
 
Thanks for the insight, it is appreciated.

Here is the link to Blue Nile. It has the GIA certificate on it:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?pid=LD01150711&track=rvDia_0&elem=dia_view

The crown angle is referenced on the GIA certificate and the appraiser made the comment that the angle combined with the depth showed the raw stone should have been a 1.2 - 1.3 carat if done right.

I can say I am definitely learning a lot during this process. Let me know your thoughts after this additional information.

Thanks again!
 
Date: 8/30/2007 5:53:20 PM
Author: TexasDomer
I found the appraiser listed here on PS and also found posts recommending them. I thought they were very professional and gave me an honest assessment. I too was very suprised at their assessment, but I don''t have any reason to think they would be wrong and would definitely recommend them. I withheld the name of the appraiser since this is a public forum.
Click to expand...
Easier to do Monday morning quarterbacking...but as I reflected to myself yesterday...and at least from my point of view...both BN and the appraiser are a business...whos reputation are open to scrutiny on this "public forum" Though I''ll grant you...any appraisal business is going to be smaller than BN.
 
The Blue Nile price on this stone is $12,447, or $12,261 with bank wire.

That price is right where it ought to be, in my opinion. A very fair price.

An appraisal at 25% less than that would be an unrealistically low appraisal, in my opinion. Most appraisers would probably appraise this diamond for a couple thousand more on an average retail level (I would come in at about $14,300 to $14,800), or at about the Blue Nile selling figure on an internet retail level.

I doubt if you are going to do any better going the bricks and mortar route. You might match the price and quality of this stone, but you''re certainly not going to find it for 25% less.

Are you sure about that figure?
 
Sorry to hijack your thread, Jorge.

With the plethora of information that WhiteFlash supplies, and the GIA or AGS certification, I would think you're safe having the diamond appraised after being set. If you're ultra cautious you might consider the loose and then mounted options, but with the inventory WhiteFlash carries I don't think it's necessary.

Joe Tenhagen's an excellent appraiser, by the way.
 
Apologies as well Jorge.

I am sure. The appraiser felt strongly that I should walk away from the diamond. They said I could do much better at my price point ($12-$14k). They are an independent appraiser, so it is not like the were trying to push me to one of their stones.

I''m going to try a few B&M places (I agree, they will probably end up higher) and look at some of the other Internet vendors listed on PS.

Thanks again for the feedback and your perspective, it is appreciated.
 
Perhaps the appraiser saw something about the stone that they thought should drive the price down, perhaps they were describing a completely different marketplace (like what you could sell it for) or it may have been as simple as a typographical error. Call them up and discuss it with them. They've seen the stone and none of us has so this gives them the edge. For an appraisal to be useful it must be understood and it’s not at all unreasonable for you to ask questions about anything in the report that you feel is in error or that requires clarification. That’s part of what you paid for.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver
 
Texas, first of all, welcome to Pricescope. We love having all the input we can get. I'm glad you're here.

That said, brace yourself, because I'm going to try and nail your feet to the floor here. Please don't take it personally, for as they say in the Mafia, this is strictly business.

You have danced all around the figure at which you said the diamond was appraised, without coming out and saying it. You previously mentioned 25% less than you purchased the diamond at. Does that mean you have an appraisal in writing for about $9300 on this diamond? Yes or no.

The reason I ask is because that is a rather large discrepancy from what appears to be the normal market value on this stone. You named the vendor, so I kind of feel you should back that figure up, if that's the case. Otherwise it will seem (to me) that you just picked it out of the air to make your point.

Perhaps a post with a partial scan of the appraisal?

I'm just trying to determine if your post is authentic or not.
 
No offense taken.

I haven''t received the final appraisal certificate. The appraisal was on Thursday and they said they would mail the appraisal certificate to me. This policy of mailing the certificate as opposed to getting in at the visit was on their website, so I knew I would not be walking out with it. When I get the actual document, I will have no problem sharing.

When I spoke to the appraiser in person, they said the price I paid was probably fair, but they were concerned about the whole "cutting the stone to hit the 1.5 price point" issue. They said they would do some research and get me an appraisal price shortly thereafter.

I spoke with the appraiser via phone about two hours later and that is when they said the appraisal would be under $10,000. My calculation of 25% might be off slightly (I figured 12,500 divided by 10,000 = 25%, but I see how you got $9300), so I apologize, I did the math in my head while still a bit heated from the thought over overpaying that much, but it will be in the 20-25% range.

I''ve heard nothing but great things about Blue Nile, so I was shocked when I heard the appraisal. Maybe it was the appraiser more then it was Blue Nile, but as mentioned before, the appraiser did review the stone, so I am taking their word for it.
 
I''ll jump in too. I feel that you paid a fair price. I don''t see the appraised value for insurance purposes being below 10K.

Rich, Neil, and myself (and other appraisers here) know the markets very well and we know when something isn''t right.

I''ll agree with Neil...it''s your hard earned money and it''s worth a phone call to the appraiser to double check for accuracy.

Keep us in the loop.

Jeff Averbook, G.G. (Graduate Gemologist since 1986)
Medford, MA

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 
Okay Texas, thanks for the additional details. You sound like a legit consumer to me. Forgive me for questioning it, but sometimes we get "vendor bashing" on here with no real basis in the truth.

Welcome aboard.
 
No problem at all. Glad to be here and glad to get all of the advice.
 
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